Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Jack of Spades
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Toshinden 3-4! Strike Force One! Beavis & Butt-Head!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

Ares wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 6:21 pm I'll probably be in the minority, but I never really cared for either Beavis and Butt-Head or Daria.
Me neither. I find the whole concept grating, and the art is slightly above my five year old niece's scribbles. I've never heard a thing about them that I thought was funny. I'm also not the target market for Dumb and Dumber; I generally find the very stupid more irritating to infuriating than funny or pathetic.
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Jabroniville
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Dallas Grimes

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

DALLAS GRIMES
Played By:
Demi Moore
Role: Femme Fatale
PL 4 (52)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+3)
Deception 3 (+6, +8 Attractive)
Expertise (Criminal) 7 (+8)
Intimidation 5 (+5)
Perception 3 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+5, +7 Attractive)

Advantages:
Attractive, Equipment 2 (Pistol 4)

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Pistol +4 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +1, Fortitude +3, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)- Dallas and her husband are arms-dealers out for a massive score- she wants to ransom Washington for millions.
Relationship (Muddy- Husband)- Dallas is a bit attracted to her ex, but is really just using him.

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 8 (52)

-Muddy's better half is of course played by Bruce Willis' then-wife Demi Moore, back when she had SOME credibility in Hollywood (before numerous bombs sinked her legitimate career forever). When she finds out that Beavis & Butt-Head were sent to "do" her, and realizes what they think that means, she promises to give them the goods... but only if they head to Washington, packing a massively-powerful virus that she and her husband stole. This gets her off the hook with the feds (who search her and can't find anything incriminating), and then she heads to find the boys and get the virus back. But Muddy finds her first, and threatens to kill her, until she seduces him- the Feds interrupt their backseat dealings (if you know what I mean) and they're arrested and pretty much out of the way.

-In this sense, Muddy & Dallas are just a means to an end- a reason to get the boys moving across America. Muddy's your standard big thug, while Dallas is a more-effective Femme Fatale.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Toshinden 3-4! Strike Force One! Beavis & Butt-Head!)

Post by greycrusader »

Ares wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 6:21 pm I'll probably be in the minority, but I never really cared for either Beavis and Butt-Head or Daria. While I can enjoy films and stories about unlikable protagonists, for longer series where I need to keep coming back there needs to be something about at least one of the protagonists that I like, and honestly? I couldn't stand Beavis, Butt-Head or Daria. Daria was more tolerable than the duo, but honestly? Daria wasn't much more fun for me. And I get it, these shows are satires, over the top representations of things to get a point across. But after decades of what feels like progressively more mean spirited deconstructions, "subverting expectations", take thats and the like, shows like Beavis and Butt Head/Daria hold even less appeal for me. It's just not my flavor of humor, and not very 'fun' for me.
Well, you're in a minority of at least two, at any rate.Daria was more tolerable, but the main character wasn't just sort-of-unlikeable (I can deal with that, sometimes even appreciate it if the execution is right), she was just boring and smug. But I must say I LOVED Mike Judge's later masterpiece King of the Hill

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Toshinden 3-4! Strike Force One! Beavis & Butt-Head!)

Post by EternalPhoenix »

Jack of Spades wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:59 am
Ares wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 6:21 pm I'll probably be in the minority, but I never really cared for either Beavis and Butt-Head or Daria.
Me neither. I find the whole concept grating, and the art is slightly above my five year old niece's scribbles. I've never heard a thing about them that I thought was funny. I'm also not the target market for Dumb and Dumber; I generally find the very stupid more irritating to infuriating than funny or pathetic.
greycrusader wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 2:47 am
Ares wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 6:21 pm I'll probably be in the minority, but I never really cared for either Beavis and Butt-Head or Daria. While I can enjoy films and stories about unlikable protagonists, for longer series where I need to keep coming back there needs to be something about at least one of the protagonists that I like, and honestly? I couldn't stand Beavis, Butt-Head or Daria. Daria was more tolerable than the duo, but honestly? Daria wasn't much more fun for me. And I get it, these shows are satires, over the top representations of things to get a point across. But after decades of what feels like progressively more mean spirited deconstructions, "subverting expectations", take thats and the like, shows like Beavis and Butt Head/Daria hold even less appeal for me. It's just not my flavor of humor, and not very 'fun' for me.
Well, you're in a minority of at least two, at any rate.Daria was more tolerable, but the main character wasn't just sort-of-unlikeable (I can deal with that, sometimes even appreciate it if the execution is right), she was just boring and smug. But I must say I LOVED Mike Judge's later masterpiece King of the Hill

All my best.
And a group of four are we. I'm with Jack, actually. I liked Daria when I was a depressed and apathetic teenager. As an adult I want to smack her because she's painfully young and inexperienced about the world.
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Daria

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

"La la LA la la..."

DARIA:

-This one's an odd one for me- debuting in 1997 (about when Beavis & Butt-Head ended), this spin-off featuring side-character Daria Morgendorffer was something I REALLY hated at the time- not only was it completely different in tone from the series that spawned it, but I found the voice-acting absurdly horrible and annoying. I'd seen a few episodes, and bits of others, and dismissed the whole thing. My sisters, who HATED Beavis & Butt-Head, were actually huge fans, though they were never aware of Daria's origins- they were shocked years later when I told them about her debut on Beavis & Butt-Head. The show came about when Glenn Eichler, a producer of B&B, was contacted by MTV to do a spin-off, and Mike Judge gave his blessing- Glenn has since gone on to become a major staffwriter on The Colbert Report and Colbert's Late Show.

So this show lasted for three seasons between 1997 and 2002, pretty much when I was sixteen to twenty-one, though I had no idea it lasted into my College years. I passed it off and never got the DVD set (it was delayed for YEARS thanks to the MTV-based show having a TON of popular music in it, wrecking the DVD rights like WKRP in Cincinatti had happen years earlier), but was brought into it by two things. 1) The Nostalgia Critic, Doug Walker, stated that it was his FAVOURITE SHOW EVER on a countdown (he has since placed Avatar: The Last Airbender in that spot), and gave an impassioned reasoning as to why (including his own High School going through what Daria's did when a much-hated student died, and everyone had this weird sense of grief and discomfort over it). 2) I caught the show airing on MTV2 recently (note: written in 2011!!!), and decided to watch a handful, soon actually getting into it for real.

The show features Daria moving to a new town (Lawndale) with her never-before-seen family (she was only in a handful of B&B episodes in a speaking role, and certainly never featured enough to get her home life seen). Her more emotional self on the prior show is ignored, turning her into the ultimate Deadpan Snarker, a smart-mouthed girl who makes side comments about the stupidity of others, while being generally morose and misanthropic. Meanwhile, her sister Quinn is pretty, popular and gets along with everyone- the crux of the show is the antisocial Daria on one end, and the scheming Quinn on the other, along with their oddball parents (workaholic lawyer mom and passive, constantly helplessly angry dad). Daria's only friend is Jane, a quirky artist, and she has to deal with a ton of insane, stupid students at her school- she's generally a bit "above" everyone, and pretty effectively represents her generation of dispassioned teens.

And yeah, this show is a PERFECT representation of it's era- just as much as Beavis & Butt-Head was of the early '90s, this show represents the latter half of the decade- the girls dress in the fashions I remember from High School (the belly shirt & flared jeans look- the belly-shirts have actually returned in the past year I've noticed), and the whole morose-ness of my teenage years is well-represented. I mean, Daria says a few things that could have come STRAIGHT out of my mouth as a teenager, and that's freaky, especially since the show occasionally points out that it's not entirely a GOOD thing to be a snarky observer, ripping on everyone. It definitely picks up on young misanthropy, as the show feels almost as hopeless and bleak as B&B at times- just never quite as dark and dismal with the environment (Lawndale is actually idyllic and pretty, for instance, which actually makes some of the emptiness feel MORE potent).

The show's finest moments are those when Daria gets her attitude thrown back in her face- like when her mother points out that even DARIA can't hold up to her own standards of morality, after she gets all moralistic over a black fellow student using her father's wealth to her advantage when she felt persecuted based off of her race. Sometimes there are great moments between Daria and her parents- particularly Helen, who was smart enough to figure out Daria's personality and tendencies. Daria & Jane have a fantastic relationship as well- they play well off of each other with all their snarkiness, but their fights come across as believable (Daria REALLY hates it when Jane finds a boyfriend, getting jealous over all the time they spend together... yeah people read into this easily, alright), and even the resolutions are pretty good. The show has real continuity, and you can actually see the Quinn character change over the years, going from a standard Shallow Teen Alpha Bitch to a fairly empty person who WANTS to be something more, yet doesn't feel like she's able to. Her relationship with Daria actually undergoes a great metamorphosis because of this.

My favourite moment is in One J at a Time, featuring Daria bringing her boyfriend Tom over to the house for the first time. She's terrified of Jake embarassing her, and Tom's natural sarcasm insulting her dad, so she wants them both to be polite. But when Jake goes on one of his noted Anti-Squirrel tirades, Tom goes along with it- Daria scolds him for playing along and thus, making fun, but then Tom goes all "NO I'M SERIOUS!" and goes on his OWN rant about those "Damn Squirrels!" and how they wrecked his family's cellar. Then, when QUINN'S date suddenly pipes in and they all talk about hunting squirrels, Tom goes "LOOK, THERE IT IS!" and ALL THREE BOYS tear out of the house as fast as possible to go catch it! Then they're seen outside, high-fiving each other with the squirrel in a cage, with all the girls pretty much just exasperated. It was kind of a cute view of poor Jake having his one chance at being "one of the guys". Daria even confessed this aspect of the "male mind" was beyond her understanding.

The show is and was VERY popular with girls- my sisters loved it, and it's one of those shows that had an AMAZINGLY-huge online fanbase for FanFics and stuff, most of which sucked ass (as is tradition). Girls typically didn't get to see THIS kind of story very often- where the weird outsider was the protagonist, looking out at a shallow world of materialism. It had a successful TV Movie halfway through that furthered some characters' growth (Is It Fall Yet?), and ended with another one ending the series (Is It College Yet?) with the characters going on to college (Daria & Jane of course are going to schools near each other).

I've heard some fans complain that the later seasons were worse... which was funny, because I felt the opposite. I have to think part of it might be to the fact that the fanbase (themselves of the "Daria" type) didn't like having their own attitude thrown back in their face when Daria's personality flaws were made more apparent. Plus the Shippers were pissed because she didn't hook up with Trent :).

The Show's Flaws:
-There are flaws, however- the Voice Acting is UTTERLY HORRIBLE on this show, for the most part. Daria & Jane are okay, but some of the cast has basically been told to act as annoyingly as humanly-possible, with exaggerated and stilted voices. There's the crudity of Beavis & Butt-Head's Voice Acting to it, but there it comes across as fitting, and as I've stated- Mike Judge was unstoppable and multi-talented. Plus the characters were used entirely as vehicles for comedy there, and in short doses (there's very few half-hour B&B episodes). The voices on this show are just... shrieky and untested. Like they've never worked before. Brittany, Sandy and Tiffany in particular are AWFUL, and can make it a chore to sit through scenes featuring them.

The many Side Characters get pretty much no development, and come across as horribly-unrealistic. Given that Daria went out of its way to be a little more realistic, it's off-putting to have Brittany & Kevin, the most-popular kids in school, be absolutely BRAIN-DEAD to the point of being unable to function. Or Daria's father be a complete mental, whining basket-case. Quinn's "Fashion Club" friends are all cartoon-level idiots too, which kind of ruins the effects of Daria & Jane's more down-to-earth personalities. Then there's Helen's criminally-underused family, which is full of amazing characters that only saw one or two episodes. The teachers at the school are also one-note gags, despite often getting a TON of focus- they're not even really that FUNNY.

Similarly, there's an issue with the side characters being too NICE- I get that Daria is an outsider... but everyone's NICE to her! She is basically dropping one-liners and insults on people who are basically INNOCENT! She's acknowledged by everyone as being a "brain" and unpopular, but nobody actively hates on her or anything! All of Daria's rebellion and snarkiness is essentially against people who've done her little wrong, which kind of ruins the effect. Now, if they actually had people bitching at her, then we'd have more of a show- things suffer because Daria's attitude rarely gets thrown in her face, and she comes across much less sympathetic. Compare how Brittany & Kevin treat her, to how most of the bitchy "Fashion Club" acts- things would actually work better if Daria's contemporaries acted that way. Only Quinn really deserves the attitude she gets from Daria- the rest is her snarking on a world that annoys and irritates her. Though this actually represents MY High School life more accurately- the popular and attractive kids tended to be nicer, since... well, they're ATTRACTIVE AND POPULAR- why WOULD they be nasty to everyone? Their lives rule!

All in all... it's a good show. It has GREAT moments, and could have been a GREAT series, but never quite got over the hump- they had too much silliness with the side characters (who wouldn't have been BAD if they'd been FUNNIER- their antics just aren't that amusing, especially compared to Daria's parent series), and didn't go as far as they could with the other characters. It's a bit frustrating to watch because of that, really- you can SEE a great show just trying to claw its way out, but it never happens.

The Fandom:
-A show with a primary female fanbase, Daria was one of the first cartoons I recall getting a LOT of fan-fiction content that was like... talked about a bunch. In that the Daria Wiki was written by FanFiccers and of course many interjected their Fics into things. Not to replace canon with their dumb fan ideas, but stuff like a "Fanfic" section. One I will always remember, mostly because this was one of my introductions to FanFic, was that someone wrote a fic about Quinn being a reporter in Iraq, then adding "This led to a lot of 'Quinn in Iraq' stories" as if this were a perfectly rational statement to make.

The fandom is IMMENSELY obsessive in the early 2000s but calmed down a bit, I think. I know a lot of people are quite upset over the final seasons, with the Trent/Tom shipping war going strong. I think a lot of the distaste for Season 5-6 may be due to Daria herself getting some actual criticism- as the fanbase was particularly

The Cast:
Daria Morgendorffer: A snarky outsider who generally pokes fun at everyone, while intentionally avoiding other people.
Jane Lane: Daria's only friend, an artsy-type who's a bit more sociable.
Trent Lane: Jane's older brother, a stoner rock musician and the source of Daria's crush for several seasons.
Tom: Jane's rich boyfriend, who later makes a connection with Daria. Sets off a billion Anti-Shipping Fics.
Kevin: The Quarterback of Lawndale High's Football Team. A giant imbecile.
Brittany: Kevin's girlfriend, and Head Cheerleader. Slightly smarter than Kevin, the same way Butt-Head is smarter than Beavis.
Helen & Jake Morgendorrfer: Daria & Quinn's parents- Helen is a go-getter workaholic Lawyer, while Jake is a namby-pamby failure on the verge of a heart failure.
"Upchuck": A nerdy photographer/video guy who constantly hits on every girl around, like your usual Hollywood Nerd.

The Fashion Club:
Quinn Morgendorffer: Daria's little sister, and a sharp-tongued whiner who manipulates boys and vies for popularity.
Sandy: Club president, and Alpha Bitch. Competes with Quinn for popularity, throwing out Passive-Agressive stuff to her and the other Club members.
Stacy: An eager-to-please Omega Wolf, desperate for acceptance from Sandy and others.
Tiffany: Talks... really SLOW... like THIS... easily the dumbest member of the GROUP...

The Teachers:
Principal Li: A money-hungry pencil-pusher who only does what's best for herself and the school. Butts heads with Daria often.
Mr. O'Neill: A whiny, super-liberal hippie teacher who's brutally ineffective at teaching.
Mr. DiMartino: A possibly-psychotic teacher on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
Ms. Barch: A man-hating divorcee.

The ones I'm not building:
Jodie & Michael: The only two black kids at Lawndale. Generally underdeveloped as characters, since they didn't bother to give them any character flaws or quirks, since they're black and sometimes Character Depth on black people is viewed as racist.
Andrea Haley: "The Goth Girl" as she's generally-known. She gets very few speaking lines, but the FanFic community and online fanbase built her up a lot, so she gets the occasional moment later on.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Beavis & Butt-Head! Stewart! Todd! Daria!)

Post by drkrash »

I'm going to continue to support Jab and represent what is evidently the actual minority here by continuing to defend B&B. (Daria is a different beast for me - I can appreciate her sarcasm but it does get tiresome).

A few things that help me appreciate Beavis and Butthead. This is not intended as an evangelization for anyone; if you don't like it, you don't like it.

1) While the show captures the MTV zeitgeist of the 90s, it is also tied heavily to the 80s. I grew up making fun of the same videos as them. I went to an all-boys high school that had plenty of Buttheads in it.
2) The boys sometimes act *so* stupid that it's almost hard to relate to them as human, which makes it easier to tolerate their stupidity. It's a cartoon version of Jackass sometimes - which is also an experience that some people can't tolerate, but which I generally find hilarious.
3) While Butthead is much harder to appreciate, Beavis is not. My sons and I find Beavis a very sympathetic character. He also possesses more emotional intelligence than Butthead, often shows flashes of cultural insight, and is even occasionally a character of accidental-but-genuine faith.
4) Finally, it helps that we're a heavy metal household. Heavy metal fans can be pretty elitist about music. :)

I don't consider B&B in the same light as a lot of modern "adult" cartoons, which I find utterly unwatchable. When a character is intelligent, sarcastic, AND mean, I can agree with Ares that I can't root for them or care about them. Butthead only possesses one of these traits, and Beavis arguably possesses none of them outside of his attachment to Butthead.

It does make me curious about what kinds of comedy cartoons people *do* find funny.

Here's one of my favorite bits from the new series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RktX7m4RdLg
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Toshinden 3-4! Strike Force One! Beavis & Butt-Head!)

Post by CaptainKaulu »

Jack of Spades wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:59 am
Ares wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 6:21 pm I'll probably be in the minority, but I never really cared for either Beavis and Butt-Head or Daria.
Me neither. I find the whole concept grating, and the art is slightly above my five year old niece's scribbles. I've never heard a thing about them that I thought was funny. I'm also not the target market for Dumb and Dumber; I generally find the very stupid more irritating to infuriating than funny or pathetic.
Hear hear. Even Michael-Scott-centered episodes of The Office grate on me.
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Woodclaw
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Re: Daria

Post by Woodclaw »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:27 am Image

"La la LA la la..."

DARIA:

The show's finest moments are those when Daria gets her attitude thrown back in her face- like when her mother points out that even DARIA can't hold up to her own standards of morality, after she gets all moralistic over a black fellow student using her father's wealth to her advantage when she felt persecuted based off of her race. Sometimes there are great moments between Daria and her parents- particularly Helen, who was smart enough to figure out Daria's personality and tendencies. Daria & Jane have a fantastic relationship as well- they play well off of each other with all their snarkiness, but their fights come across as believable (Daria REALLY hates it when Jane finds a boyfriend, getting jealous over all the time they spend together... yeah people read into this easily, alright), and even the resolutions are pretty good. The show has real continuity, and you can actually see the Quinn character change over the years, going from a standard Shallow Teen Alpha Bitch to a fairly empty person who WANTS to be something more, yet doesn't feel like she's able to. Her relationship with Daria actually undergoes a great metamorphosis because of this.

The show is and was VERY popular with girls- my sisters loved it, and it's one of those shows that had an AMAZINGLY-huge online fanbase for FanFics and stuff, most of which sucked ass (as is tradition). Girls typically didn't get to see THIS kind of story very often- where the weird outsider was the protagonist, looking out at a shallow world of materialism. It had a successful TV Movie halfway through that furthered some characters' growth (Is It Fall Yet?), and ended with another one ending the series (Is It College Yet?) with the characters going on to college (Daria & Jane of course are going to schools near each other).

I've heard some fans complain that the later seasons were worse... which was funny, because I felt the opposite. I have to think part of it might be to the fact that the fanbase (themselves of the "Daria" type) didn't like having their own attitude thrown back in their face when Daria's personality flaws were made more apparent. Plus the Shippers were pissed because she didn't hook up with Trent :).
Jabroniville wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:27 amThe many Side Characters get pretty much no development, and come across as horribly-unrealistic. Given that Daria went out of its way to be a little more realistic, it's off-putting to have Brittany & Kevin, the most-popular kids in school, be absolutely BRAIN-DEAD to the point of being unable to function. Or Daria's father be a complete mental, whining basket-case. Quinn's "Fashion Club" friends are all cartoon-level idiots too, which kind of ruins the effects of Daria & Jane's more down-to-earth personalities. Then there's Helen's criminally-underused family, which is full of amazing characters that only saw one or two episodes. The teachers at the school are also one-note gags, despite often getting a TON of focus- they're not even really that FUNNY.

Similarly, there's an issue with the side characters being too NICE- I get that Daria is an outsider... but everyone's NICE to her! She is basically dropping one-liners and insults on people who are basically INNOCENT! She's acknowledged by everyone as being a "brain" and unpopular, but nobody actively hates on her or anything! All of Daria's rebellion and snarkiness is essentially against people who've done her little wrong, which kind of ruins the effect. Now, if they actually had people bitching at her, then we'd have more of a show- things suffer because Daria's attitude rarely gets thrown in her face, and she comes across much less sympathetic. Compare how Brittany & Kevin treat her, to how most of the bitchy "Fashion Club" acts- things would actually work better if Daria's contemporaries acted that way. Only Quinn really deserves the attitude she gets from Daria- the rest is her snarking on a world that annoys and irritates her. Though this actually represents MY High School life more accurately- the popular and attractive kids tended to be nicer, since... well, they're ATTRACTIVE AND POPULAR- why WOULD they be nasty to everyone? Their lives rule!
I can absolutely testify that all of this is true and I really think that one of the key point of the show is that most of the stories are told Daria's (and Jane) perspective. This lead to many character becoming exagerated parodies on themselves and/or stereotypes, because despire all her smart, Daria can be extremely judgemental of other. In my experience, this kind of defense mechanism has a lot of hidden pitfalls and Daria marched into all of them throughout the show. I always saw the changes from later season as both a sign of characters growth from the entire cast, but also as Daria letting her guard down a bit and seeing that maybe... just maybe some people are better than she imagined by putting each one in a small and neat square.

One of the biggest moments that stuck with me was when Daria and Jodie (arguably the two of the smartest character in the entire show) had a heart-to-heart and it seemed clear that neither was happy: Daria wanted to be more gregarious, but her armor of cynism was too thick; Jodie was struggling under the pressure of becoming the "black woman role model" that her parents envisioned her and really wanted to find the strength to tell people suck it a bit more often.

Similarly, I always saw the fashion club as the big warning sign put there to start Quinn's character growth. Each of the members was a steroetype of what Quinn might end up being and they were put there to highlight how she was potentially better, but didn't really get it until (like her sister) she had run face-first into every part of the obstacle course that is growing up.

And that's is kind of the point, for me Daria is a show about growing up and adjusting, dropping your guard and knowing that you can get punched in the face or kissed.

"It's not about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward." (Rocky)
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Jabroniville
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Daria Morgendorffer

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

"I don't HAVE low self-esteem. I have low esteem for EVERYONE ELSE..."
-This is me in High School. No exaggeration.


DARIA MORGENDORFFER
Played By:
Tracy Grandstaff
Role: Deadpan Snarker, Deliberate Outsider, Emotionless Girl
PL 0 (13), PL 3 (13) Saves
STRENGTH
-1 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Deception 5 (+3)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 1 (+4)
Expertise (Writing) 2 (+5)
Investigation 2 (+5)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (-1 Damage, DC 14)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Jane Lane)- Daria's best friend is Jane- a quirky artist who shares a gift for sarcasm. They are so inseparable that Daria goes through notable anxiety when they're apart for too many days at a time, and Daria gets EXTREMELY jealous and uncomfortable every time Jane hooks up with a guy. EVERY TIME. This is some Sam & Frodo-level shit right here...
Relationship (Trent Lane)- Daria, despite herself, finds herself extremely attracted to Jane's slacker brother Trent. Even when she THINKS she's gotten over it, something happens (like an imagined idealized future together) that draws her back in ("damn!").
Relationship (Tom Sloane)- Daria eventually hooks up with Tom, even though he was dating Jane at the time. This causes a schism, as you would imagine. She & Tom are good together (both love sarcasm, for instance), but their differing economic circumstances and paths through life act to pull them apart.
Relationship (Quinn)- Daria is disgusted by her popularity-obsessed, attention-grabbing little sister, going out of her way to humiliate Quinn. It takes a long time for them to come to an agreement, as Quinn becomes less shallow, and Daria less critical (she's unwilling to TRULY destroy Quinn in public, for example).
---
Relationship (Parents)- Daria is disappointed in her wimpy father, and often disgusted by her mother's disinterested, obsessive nature. She is forced to acknowledge later that perhaps she wasn't "the easiest child to raise", and admits that she was lucky to have them as parents.
Responsibility (Anti-Social)- Daria doesn't play well with others, and never has. She was always a bit too brainy, and too willing to cut through the B.S. and point out other people's flaws. She even makes fun of people who are polite to her, and actively pushes people away when they get too close.
Disabled (Lack of Emotional Awareness)- Daria does not act out that emotionally- her body language and facial expressions are so reserved that people can often not even tell when she's angry. The only real indication is her eyebrows and her voice, which can get quite dark and piercing.
Responsibility (Ethics)- Daria is a highly-ethical person, and constantly rips on people whom she believes are being immoral. The trouble is, NOBODY can meet her standards most of the time, and even SHE can't always do it.
Responsibility (Lack of Intimacy)- Daria has issues with getting close to people- she often snarks at them to put a wall between them, and this causes her issues in romantic relationships, where she often seems to sabotage them.
Disabled (Bad Eyesight)- Daria cannot see without glasses.
Reputation (Not Popular)- Daria isn't so unpopular that she cannot hang out with popular people, though- even Brittany points this out.

Total: Abilities: 6 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 2 (13)

-Daria was created to be a smart "foil" to Beavis & Butt-Head in their own series. She was actually a bit of Executive Meddling that Mike Judge immediately agreed with, realizing that having a female voice in the show would be a great twist- the idea of a girl who hated the boys slightly LESS than anyone else did, and thus was able to interact with them (at one point, she actually proves they can make good Science Project subjects when she's assigned to help them avoid a failing grade). She had a bit of attitude, and despite being a bit morose (like when she complains about being made Fashion Editor for the school paper simply because she's a girl), often acted fairly emotionally (she can be seen doing double-takes and laughing along with the other kids at times). Judge named her after a female classmate of his, whom he'd ALSO nicknamed "Diarrhea", same as Beavis and Butt-Head did.

-As the most (well, only) well-rounded character on B&B, she was easily the best character for a spin-off (though Tom Anderson would be made a bit more fully-realized and turned into Hank Hill). Daria VERY well represents that kind of teenager who generally just has negative things to say about others- she sees the foolishness of popularity and High School and is disinterested in the games. Despite being the ULTIMATE Deadpan Snarker character (I can't imagine a better example, actually- she usually doesn't even SMIRK when she does it!), they often get a good bit of depth out of her- she's so morally righteous that she comes across as preachy, and she's not quite as invulnerable to games of popularity as she seems (during one episode, she risks endangering herself because she wants to go without glasses for a day, but can't stand the contacts- when cheerleader Tiffany actually thanks her for admitting to being self-conscious because it makes HER feel less awful for dwelling on her appearance, Daria is actually touched).

-And Daria DEFINITELY has emotions- she just doesn't showcase them as clearly as others (Jane is one of the only people who can see them). And she's not as "above it all" as she seems, as right away she's befuddled by a huge crush on Jane's brother Trent, who is a space-case musician who is her polar opposite in terms of putting effort into things. And even though she is AWARE of this problem, and repeatedly tries to "forget" Trent, she repeatedly fantasizes and brings herself back in. And then when she falls for Jane's boyfriend Tom, she beats herself up as surely as Jane will when she finds out, tries to lie to herself about it, and more, before ultimately failing. So the vulnerable spot in Daria's armor is definitely in the romance department.

-Daria is effectively a Child Genius of a sort- she was advanced in intelligence at a young age and quickly felt "apart" from the other kids because of it. She has little work ethic but authentically enjoys learning stuff so she's a great student. She quickly delighted Mr. DiMartino when she knew already what "Manifest Destiny" was... though quickly annoyed him because she knew EVERY answer as well. Daria is quick-witted and can read people like a book (she effortlessly even laid out her own parents' personalities), and usually doesn't care how she comes across, viewing others as beneath her (causing a negative PRE score)... but when it comes back to bite her, she can sometimes realize she comes off as cruel and indifferent to others.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Beavis & Butt-Head! Stewart! Todd! Daria!)

Post by Ares »

You know, it's kind of funny, but reading Jab's description of Daria kind of reminds me of Hank Pym from Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and in a weird way, he and Daria actually have a lot in common. On the surface they're both very different, as Hank has an almost childlike enthusiasm for science, usually wears his emotions on his sleeve and actually tries to socially interact with people. Meanwhile Daria has the emotional range that makes Vulcans look like hard partying frat boys, and she does everything she can to not get involved. But both of them are also highly intelligent, highly ethical people and judge others harshly for not living up to those standards. Even when trying to stop Kang (a guy who just tried to wipe out all of Manhattan Island with a space based superweapon), Hank has to snark "Right, I forgot, violence first" when Cap says their priority is to take Kang down. And much like how it sounds like Daria occasionally had it pointed out to her that she couldn't live up to her own standards or wasn't actually in the right, Hank had several humbling moments where he was forced to accept that he was wrong and being a judgemental asshat.

Of course, two big differences between Hank and Daria is that 1) Hank doesn't actually view anyone as being beneath him and 2) Hank actually puts his morality into practice. From what I've seen, Daria tends to just moralize about people from the sidelines and almost never actually tries to act on her morality. It basically exists solely as a vehicle to allow her to be judgmental of others. Meanwhile Hank legitimately believes what he's trying to do and actively puts his ideas into practice in an effort to help people.

All of which is why I find A:EMH Hank Pym much more tolerable than Daria.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Jane Lane

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

“Misery lives company.”
“You don’t have to tell me. Is the basis for our whole relationship.”


JANE LANE
Played By:
Wendy Hoopes
Role: The Best Friend (to Daria), Deadpan Snarker, Artsy Chick
PL 0 (16), PL 2 (16) Saves
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 1 (+4)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 3 (+3)
Expertise (Art) 5 (+5)
Insight 1 (+2)
Persuasion 2 (+4)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +1, Will +2

Complications:
Relationship (Daria Morgendorffer)- The two meet up and are immediately partners-in-snark. Jane is a tad friendlier than Daria, but the two are otherwise inseparable (and it's shown that they need each other). They still have their tiffs (Daria gets jealous of the time Jane spends with any guy; Daria hooked up with Jane's boyfriend).
Relationship (Tom Sloane)- The two date briefly in the penultimate season, before ultimately growing apart. And he kissed her best friend.
Relationship (Trent- Brother)- Trent & Jane are relatively close, being similar in age, and usually the only two members of the Lane family present in their home.
Rivalry (Convention)- Jane is deliberately unconventional, and rejects mainstream society and its materialism.

Total: Abilities: 8 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 2 (16)

-Jane is Daria's best friend, and was generally necessary so that Daria wasn't just talking to HERSELF all the time. She's basically the Hawkeye to Daria's B.J. Hunnicutt- the one person at this crazy new establishment that can make the newcomer not feel so alone- they meet up on Daria's first day (being forced into a "Self-Esteem Building" course), and become close- "Snide, resentful and anti-social. Finally, a friend". They actually have a pretty fascinating relationship when you think about it, which is rare for cartoons, especially at THAT time (they generally focused on dudes hanging out and the girls are more limited in number)- they seem well-suited, but Jane has a lot of side interests that fill up her time, causing Daria to grow frustrated and jealous (you know, you can REALLY see where the Slash-Shippers get ideas...)- Daria is noticeably upset when Jane starts jogging, as if being a "jock" is inherently against everything the two stand for.

-Jane is actually a bit UNLIKE Daria in a few ways- she's open to the idea of making out and dating, and can easily fit in with others (she INTENTIONALLY doesn't, like Daria, but CAN when she wants to, which Daria can't). She's nowhere near a smart (she strikes me as a Straight-C student, more or less like I was), but has a lot of creativity, and is generally making weird half-assed Kid Art (the kind you see a lot of teens scribbling in the margins of their notebooks at school).
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Beavis & Butt-Head! Stewart! Todd! Daria!)

Post by Ares »

drkrash wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 11:02 am I'm going to continue to support Jab and represent what is evidently the actual minority here by continuing to defend B&B. (Daria is a different beast for me - I can appreciate her sarcasm but it does get tiresome).

A few things that help me appreciate Beavis and Butthead. This is not intended as an evangelization for anyone; if you don't like it, you don't like it.

1) While the show captures the MTV zeitgeist of the 90s, it is also tied heavily to the 80s. I grew up making fun of the same videos as them. I went to an all-boys high school that had plenty of Buttheads in it.
2) The boys sometimes act *so* stupid that it's almost hard to relate to them as human, which makes it easier to tolerate their stupidity. It's a cartoon version of Jackass sometimes - which is also an experience that some people can't tolerate, but which I generally find hilarious.
3) While Butthead is much harder to appreciate, Beavis is not. My sons and I find Beavis a very sympathetic character. He also possesses more emotional intelligence than Butthead, often shows flashes of cultural insight, and is even occasionally a character of accidental-but-genuine faith.
4) Finally, it helps that we're a heavy metal household. Heavy metal fans can be pretty elitist about music. :)

I don't consider B&B in the same light as a lot of modern "adult" cartoons, which I find utterly unwatchable. When a character is intelligent, sarcastic, AND mean, I can agree with Ares that I can't root for them or care about them. Butthead only possesses one of these traits, and Beavis arguably possesses none of them outside of his attachment to Butthead.

It does make me curious about what kinds of comedy cartoons people *do* find funny.

Here's one of my favorite bits from the new series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RktX7m4RdLg
Heh, I don't imagine Jab or Mike Judge's franchises need support, but I want to be clear I'm not saying the shows are bad or that anyone is bad for enjoying them. They just aren't my cup of tea, and like you said, that shouldn't be an issue for anyone. I generally will try for "I don't like X" rather than "X is terrible" unless I see some serious, critical flaws in X that are worth analyzing and detailing.

As far as comedy cartoons I do enjoy, I'll admit that my sense of humor tends more towards either physical comedy or wordplay/witty banter. Situational comedy tends to make me cringe (to the point of actually being uncomfortable), so a lot of shows like the Office, Friends and the like were never really my thing. I generally preferred stand-up comedy, comedy in films like Ghostbusters or the Princess Bride where it was banter, or full on slapstick like the Three Stooges or the Home Alone movies.

So the cartoons I watch for comedy tended to be old Loony Toons or Disney shorts from the 40s, 50s, etc., Tom and Jerry, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, etc. Of the "adult" comedy cartoons, I watched the Simpsons and South Park, but I eventually lost interest in them. If it counts as animation I also watched a lot of Red vs Blue (though again, lost interest in the last few seasons), and the last series I really followed with a heavy comedy influence was probably the Team Four Star fan-dub of Dragon Ball Z / DBZ Abridged.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Sidney369
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Beavis & Butt-Head! Stewart! Todd! Daria!)

Post by Sidney369 »

"New MTV show about idiots who watch MTV big hit among idiots who watch MTV" - the Onion
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Jake Morgendorffer

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

JAKE MORGENDORFFER
Played By:
Julian Rebolledo
Role: Dorky Dad
PL 0 (0), PL 1 (0)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Expertise (Business Consultant) 2 (+2)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +1

Complications:
Motivation (Attention)- Jake always wants everything to be about him- he wants his daughters to like him and his wife to respect him, and is often loud and boastful to make this happen. It never works.
Reputation (Failure)- Most of the things Jake tries fall to crap.
Temper- Jake is high-strung at the best of times, and is prone to freak-outs. This eventually leads him to a mild heart attack.
Relationship (Helen)- Jake fell for Helen years ago, but has grown more distant (and emasculated) by the successful career woman she's grown into. He finds her lacking in empathy and highly-controlling, but at least she's a "Tigress in the sack".
Relationship ("Big Dog")- Jake's father was a relentlessly-abusive man who left both Jake and his mother screwed-up, weak human beings. Jake remains obsessed with him, constantly ranting about the old man, even though he's long-deceased.
Hatred (Squirrels)

Total: Abilities: -2 / Skills: 2--1 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 1 (0)

-Daria's father is someone whom I felt was a bit of a problem on this series- he's supposed to be your standard emasculated, bumbling father, the kind that's only grown more common on TV since the '90s (remember: TV has Double Standards for EVERYTHING). But they go SO FAR over the top with him that he feels like this loud, boisterous Man-Child, and is way more cartoonish than the rest of his family, making him come across as both out-of-place and annoying. I mean, he could still attempt to be pals-y with his daughters and still come across as out-of-touch and uncool (which is the point- neither of his daughters really want to hang out with him, just like most teenage girls) without being this giant living freak-out.

-His relationship with Helen is fairly complicated- she is dominating and a career woman, being much smarter and more successful than Jake, who is a struggling businessman. This makes him feel guilty and emasculated, unable to accept that he's simply less capable or ambitious than his wife. It leads to a lot of marital strife that they have to deal with, often separate from their issues with parenting. Their sex life is pretty healthy (ie. the animators are actually allowed to sexualize Helen over the students, so we get a little more suggestive content) but they often struggle to reach each other as people.

-Jake is a CLASSIC "PL 0 Bystander", having little in the way of marketable skills.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Helen Morgendorffer

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

HELEN MORGENDORFFER
Played By:
Wendy Hoopes
Role: High-Powered Attorney, Bossy Mom, MILF
PL 0 (0), PL 1 (0)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Law) 7 (+10)
Insight 1 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+5)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +1

Complications:
Rivalry (Rita, Amy)- Helen's sisters are permanent thorns in her side- Rita was mom's favourite, and so Helen started gaining her Type-A Persona in order to impress and stand out. Amy just snarked at them, which Helen thought was just an excuse to get out of any familial responsibility.
Obsession (Work)- Helen resents having to work hard, but feels guilty about how much she enjoys work. She's your typical Type-A.
Relationship (Jake)- Helen seems to care for her husband, but finds his immature, high-strung personality tiresome, and fears that "what was once a hot love affair" has now grown colder. She also resents his lack of parenting skills and inability to get over his childhood ("It's not easy raising two teenage girls by yourself. With Jake").
Relationship (Daughters)- Helen is frustrated by Daria's inability to get along with others socially (she thinks Daria hides behind a mask of sarcasm, and doesn't want her to BECOME that mask), and Quinn's blatant shallowness. Despite that, she will defend them like a lioness should she feel they've been treated unfairly (one of the few things she & Daria see eye-to-eye on are Women's Issues and Daria's rights being violated, which has sent her up against Ms. Li at the School on numerous occasions).

Total: Abilities: 16 / Skills: 2--1 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 1 (0)

-Helen was a pretty great character, actually- your typical Type-A Female character that's common in some shows, she's a high-powered Corporate Attorney workaholic-type who tends to neglect her family, but feels a more human-like sense of guilt about it, and still tries to be a good mom. This is in marked contrast to her insane, moody husband. There are some neat moments when she tries to get to know her daughters a little better (though she generally sounds over-rehearsed and by-the-numbers when doing it, showing her lack of ability in this regard), and tries to reconnect with her husband (when she's not expressing disappointment in his childishness). Helen's guilt is fully brought out in an episode where the family is told to imitate each other to get to the root of their issues- everyone's criticism of Helen is so potent (all about her avoiding family life for work) that she sadly goes "Everybody HATES me..." and slinks back to the car in defeat.

-Another great bit is when she IMMEDIATELY dropped work to help Daria through one of her dating problems (ie. kissing her best friend's boyfriend). Or when Principal Li used Daria's assignment without her consent and then altered it- Helen went "Full Lawyer" and completely dressed down Li over the phone, repeating back her statements in a more pointed, accusatory context and then asked "Are you familiar with the term CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT?", drawing a rare smile from Daria. Helen is even the most pointed of her daughter's critics, to the point of being the only adult in the show with any REAL, rational commentary about her- she openly worries that Daria's sarcasm being a mask might eventually take over her entire personality and she'll BECOME the mask, and later points out that Daria's high moral standards (which are affecting her friendship with Jodie, whom she views as using her family name to make things easier for herself in an assignment) are unfair as nobody can live up to them- "Even YOU don't live up to them all the time".

-Helen's sisters were great characters, too- they were immediately drawn in as hyper-competitive women, establishing kind of why Helen was like this- Rita was mom's favorite, driving Helen to perfectionism and workaholic tendencies, and continues to lord her success over Helen. Amy was sarcastic and aloof (an obvious example to Daria, who adores her), but aggravated everyone by immediately diving right into the familial arguments. Helen, meanwhile, found Amy's aloofness an excuse to get out of any responsibility or even change anything. And it might also be why she's so concerned by Daria's persona.
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