Jab’s Power Profiles: Deleted 2nd Edition Powers- Ward! Area Effects!

[catsi563]

Flying 60’ per turn is clearly a lot more impactful to a character than a ground-speed of 60’ per turn.

especially when you impact something in flight.

[JDRook]

If they ever make an M&M4e, I think they should explore having various Power Effects have an “entry cost” for the first rank and then a different points per rank cost afterwards.

The various “big” movement effects – Speed, Flight, Teleport – all have a much bigger impact on a character when you go from 0 to 1 than from 1 to 2. Likewise, the various “minor” movement effects – safe-fall, leaping, wall-crawling – are little more than feats or versions of the “big” powers with flaws baked in (Leaping is just Flight with a 250 MPH cap and you have to land eventually).

Agreed. I was considering something like a 5p entry to get Flight 0 (effectively equivalent to Safe Fall and a few other traits) and Teleport to have a 10p entry (equivalent to Immunity to Grabs/Snares/Containment).

[Jabroniville]

If they ever make an M&M4e, I think they should explore having various Power Effects have an “entry cost” for the first rank and then a different points per rank cost afterwards.

The various “big” movement effects – Speed, Flight, Teleport – all have a much bigger impact on a character when you go from 0 to 1 than from 1 to 2. Likewise, the various “minor” movement effects – safe-fall, leaping, wall-crawling – are little more than feats or versions of the “big” powers with flaws baked in (Leaping is just Flight with a 250 MPH cap and you have to land eventually).

Yeah, when I posted my "Flight" Power Profile, I suggested just that. It's such an extraordinary bonus, yet the difference between Flight 12 & Flight 13 is super minor.

I mean, I can see why they DIDN'T do that- the system is clearly meant to be as simple and straightforward as possible- but it really kind of fits. Because as I noted in the beginning of the "Movement Powers" section, at least one Movement-based power is almost an Auto-Take to make a competitive PC.

[Batgirl III]

It’s always been weird to me that Leaping is Rank-2, Swimming is Rank-2, and Burrowing is a staggering Rank-5, but Flight of all things is just equal to Rank.

If anything, I feel like it should be Flight that starts “in the hole,” with your first rank of Flight being equal to (or perhaps less than) the default ground movement speed.

[squirrelly-sama]

If they ever make an M&M4e, I think they should explore having various Power Effects have an “entry cost” for the first rank and then a different points per rank cost afterwards.

The various “big” movement effects – Speed, Flight, Teleport – all have a much bigger impact on a character when you go from 0 to 1 than from 1 to 2. Likewise, the various “minor” movement effects – safe-fall, leaping, wall-crawling – are little more than feats or versions of the “big” powers with flaws baked in (Leaping is just Flight with a 250 MPH cap and you have to land eventually).

Honestly Speed should stay the same, while burrowing, Teleport and Flight get rolled into Movement. There does not need to be redundant movement, especially when distance increases exponentially.

[RainOnTheSun]

Prowlers and Paragons has an interesting approach to movement powers: running, flight, leaping, and teleportation all cost the same amount per rank, but leaping starts at half your Might (Strength) rank, running starts at rank 3, and flight and teleportation start at 0 since... people don't do those things. So there's effectively an entry cost on the more useful movement powers, if you want to get around as quickly as you could with something less fancy.

[Jabroniville]

MOVEMENT- WALL-CRAWLING:

Effect: The Spider-Man power- you climb walls and ceilings at your speed rank -1, but are vulnerable while doing so. An additional rank means you move at your ground speed and are not vulnerable.

Who Uses It?: DUH. This is explicitly to build Spider-Man. He & the associated characters are usually the only characters to routinely do this. However, other arthropod-based characters can have this power, as will guys like Doctor Octopus and various "Claw Guys" who use the "stab claws into the side of a building to climb up it" trick. Disney's Gargoyles would do this, and many "Cat"-based characters will as well.

Powersuit guys can use "Magno-Boots" or whatever to do this, and Ghost Rider's motorcycle would, too.

Extras & Flaws: It's pretty cheap so there's not much point in it.

Related Stuff: Other "Spider-Man Powers".

How Effective Is It?: This is actually pretty effective- Wall-Crawling 1 is tricky because you're vulnerable, but for 2-4 points you can effectively move outside of the ground, where most hazards are. Clever GMs can still affect you, though (hell, in Spider-Man #2 the Vulture almost kills him by dropping him in a water tower with walls too slick to climb). Anyone with Speed is gonna be RACING up those walls, too.

Overall, though, I kind of like sneaking this one is an an "extraneous" power to a lot of builds. For some reason, it just kind of shows off versatility and foresight and allows guys to have a bit more unique stuff to them.

Fixing It?: Nothing much worth fixing.

[EternalPhoenix]

Speedsters use Wall Crawling 2 uh, too. Fast enough to run up walls before gravity can respond? You may have Movement (Wall-Crawling). Otherwise yeah, you're on the Spider-Man routine. Or have, like a grapple gun or something which like 5% different, mechanically speaking.

[gigolojoe]

If they ever make an M&M4e, I think they should explore having various Power Effects have an “entry cost” for the first rank and then a different points per rank cost afterwards.

I'd love to see this. The only issue I can see with it (beyond making sure the numbers balance out) is to keep the Power Cost Formula simple and not too gameable. For me, it would be as simple as adding a "buy-in" cost for powers that need it (unaffected by limitations).

The current formula is:
    Power Cost = ((base effect costs + extras - flaws) x rank) + flat modifiers
My new one would be:
    Power Cost = buy-in cost + ((base effect costs + extras - flaws) x rank) + flat modifiers

[JDRook]

It's definitely a big jump over Climbing. Base Climbing is -2 ground speed and Vulnerable by default while climbing, plus smooth surfaces are effectively unclimbable (something like a brick wall is DC20). There are circumstance modifiers for various things, including "buying off" Vulnerability and slower speed for +5DC each rank.

Wall-Crawl 1 is -1 speed and Vuln and requires no checks so it could be considered roughly equal to +20 Climb plus Skill Mastery: Climbing. WC2 is full speed and no Vulnerable, so essentially another +10 Climb.

With standard climbing, there's also the possibility of falling off your climbing surface if you ever fail a resistance check, resolved by an Athletics check vs the climbing surface's DC. Wall-Crawl completely avoids that.

I had been thinking about whether combining the Skill and Power tracks would be worth it, but I guess only if you wanted something really granular. In that case, WC1 could be +15 Climb and Skill Mastery, and WC2 would be another +20 Climb and the PC could apply modifiers as needed. Just leaving them as separate tracks is far easier, but doesn't give the opportunity for something like buying off Vulnerability with a good Ath Check.

[Jabroniville]

It's definitely a big jump over Climbing. Base Climbing is -2 ground speed and Vulnerable by default while climbing, plus smooth surfaces are effectively unclimbable (something like a brick wall is DC20). There are circumstance modifiers for various things, including "buying off" Vulnerability and slower speed for +5DC each rank.

Wall-Crawl 1 is -1 speed and Vuln and requires no checks so it could be considered roughly equal to +20 Climb plus Skill Mastery: Climbing. WC2 is full speed and no Vulnerable, so essentially another +10 Climb.

With standard climbing, there's also the possibility of falling off your climbing surface if you ever fail a resistance check, resolved by an Athletics check vs the climbing surface's DC. Wall-Crawl completely avoids that.

I had been thinking about whether combining the Skill and Power tracks would be worth it, but I guess only if you wanted something really granular. In that case, WC1 could be +15 Climb and Skill Mastery, and WC2 would be another +20 Climb and the PC could apply modifiers as needed. Just leaving them as separate tracks is far easier, but doesn't give the opportunity for something like buying off Vulnerability with a good Ath Check.

Haha I didn't even bother to check "Climbing" with this, even though I looked over Athletics when I did "Leaping". Yeah it's staggeringly better that the equivalent cost in Athletics (which at least nets you extra stuff).

[Jabroniville]

MOVEMENT- SWINGING:

Effect: Another power obviously meant for "Spider-Man" builds, this allows you to move at your normal ground speed by swinging through the air via a swing-line. You can also use available projections like tree limbs, flagpoles, etc. This is a bit weird because almost no one uses it that way, as that'd be a "Limited to Available Materials", wouldn't it? Unusually, this one is inherently limited to the environment- characters can't justify Swinging if there's nothing to swing FROM, but the book doesn't even mention that.

Who Uses It?: Obviously this is another "Spider-Man Power", as he's easily the hero most famous for it, swinging via his web-lines. However, most "Acrobat" heroes tend to use this as well, albeit via their gear- Batman most famously uses his Grappling Hook system, but Daredevil's Billy Club and Hawkeye's "Grapple Arrow" both do the same thing.

But like I mentioned, the book's description seems to think Tarzan and other Ape-themed characters should be doing this. But like... in a city? Where would they find things to swing off of everywhere? That's very limited utility, even in a crowded place. My build of Disney's Tarzan includes this, Safe Fall and Speed but all "Limited to Within Jungles" for this reason.

Extras & Flaws: The aforementioned note about "Limited to Within Jungles" fits.

Related Stuff: Spidey should also have some Speed to justify just how quickly he moves around this way (though oddly he's not seen running much so you could justify Limited Speed). Other Spidey powers naturally fit, like Safe Fall, which I give to him & Daredevil.

How Effective Is It?: It's 1-2 points at best, which is quite cheap for such an iconic Spidey power. Hell, it's actually EXTREMELY useful, as it justifies "building hopping", which is an extremely effective way for heroes to move about- effectively skipping obstacles and having to move around stuff.

Fixing It?: Like I said, it's cheap and can be made even cheaper.

[Batgirl III]

I won’t leave the Batcave without my trusty grappling hook!

I find it also makes a great justification for an Alternate Effect to have a low-ish level Move Object (with tether and limited to attracting an object towards the user) that can give a costumed crime-fighter a lot of utility. Rescuing people that have fallen into a river, moving a heavy bit of debris, even snagging a cowardly and superstitious goon as he tries to run away. You’ll find some variation of this wonderful gadget on just about all of my equipment- or gadget-dependent characters:

□ Launching Grappling Hook Movement 2 (Safe-Fall, Swinging) [ 4 PP ]
□ AE: Move Object 3 (300 lbs.; Extras: Tether; Flaws: Limited Direction [Attraction]) [ 1 PP ]

Tether is a Flat Extra found under the Create Effect, but I’ve never had any problems allowing it to be used on Move Object. But always check with your GM, of course.

As for the “what the @&$# is he swinging from!?” issue… To be honest, I’ve always thought that it was perfectly in keeping with the comics that the power does not require such a thing be specified by default. Spider-Man and the Batman are constantly being shown swinging above the tallest buildings in the city skyline, swinging around in the middle of the wilderness, or whatever. Every now and then a writer will hang a lampshade on this and have Spidey realize he’s in the middle of Suburbia with nothing to swing from and make him walk… Which is a perfect example of a GM introducing a Complication.

[Jack of Spades]

I think they were on the right track with Space Travel, Time Travel, and Dimensional Travel. Flight, Speed, etc. only need to be ranked in a race; I would have no problem throwing that in Quickness. In my house rules I have:

Travel: With no ranks in Travel, you can usually get anywhere in your city between scenes. That doesn’t mean you can’t go further, just that you’ll have to do something unusual – catch a plane, for example – or just take longer. At rank 1, you can get anywhere in the region (such as Southeastern US, or the West Coast) between scenes. At rank 2, you can get anywhere on the continent. At rank 3, you can get anywhere in the world that you can reach between scenes – if you don’t have Flight or Swimming, you may not be able to cross oceans. Travel has no effect on your speed within a scene – to improve that, take Quickness.

Travel normally covers one of your modes of movement – if you want to be able to both run and swim at high speeds, you need one additional rank per form of movement.

The GM may require Travel 3 as a prerequisite for Space Travel. It makes sense, but this is comics.

Flight becomes something you can do with two ranks of Movement, and Leaping, Swimming, etc. with one. But I never use mapped movement, because that either left people without movement powers immobile or people with them zooming around at unmanageable speeds.

As for the “what the @&$# is he swinging from!?” issue… To be honest, I’ve always thought that it was perfectly in keeping with the comics that the power does not require such a thing be specified by default. Spider-Man and the Batman are constantly being shown swinging above the tallest buildings in the city skyline, swinging around in the middle of the wilderness, or whatever. Every now and then a writer will hang a lampshade on this and have Spidey realize he’s in the middle of Suburbia with nothing to swing from and make him walk… Which is a perfect example of a GM introducing a Complication.

I think at that point, what you have is Flight and a Complication (which is pretty much how Spidey's swinging is treated).

[Jabroniville]

MOVEMENT- TRACKLESS:

Effect: You leave no trail that can be followed by visual senses. Effectively Concealment From Tracking. Physically, you just don't leave actual tracks, even in snow or sand.

Who Uses It?: uhhmmm... I know I've used this before. I had to check my builds on Google Drive, though- Batman villain "The Eraser" used a chemical compound to cover tracks. I made Elsa Trackless in the snow. But like who were they thinking of when they wrote THIS one in? Looks like some of my Rifts conversions use it, so I'm betting it's a big D&D/Tabletop RPG thing- there, covering your tracks is a lot more important when characters don't have vast sensory powers.

Extras & Flaws: "Limited to X Surfaces" is a solid one. The Eraser used "Affects Others".

Related Stuff: ... Concealment?

How Effective Is It?: It's... two points to avoid snoopy detectives. Though the vast majority of comic book elite trackers have the Scent power, so you're otherwise hooped.

Fixing It?: *shrug* mostly fine.