Heavy Hitters and Skillmonkeys (Fulgrim, Carnage, Batman)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Vision

Post by Harnos »

Image
Image

Vision PL 12 (236)
Strength 9/14 Stamina 10 Fighting 7
Agility 3 Dexterity 3
Intellect 6 Awareness 4 Presence 0


Powers:
Computer Brain: (10)
Quickness 4, Limited to Mental Tasks
Enhanced Advantages: Beginner's Luck, Eidetic Memory, Improved Initiative, Speed of Thought
Communication 1 (Machines)
Optic Sensors: (5)
Infravision, Ultravision, Extended Vision
Detect Energy, Radius
Synthetic Body: (36)
Immunity 11 (Life Support, Aging)
Impervious Toughness 6
Enhanced Advantages: Great Endurance, Diehard
Regeneration 1

Density Manipulation: (36)
  • Low Density: Insubstantial 4 (Precise), Flight 7 (250 MPH) [35 pp array]
  • High Density: Enhanced Strength 5 (200 tons), Enhanced Strength 5 (Limited to Resisting Movement), Protection 5 (Impervious 4), Feature 5 (Increased Mass 10 [90 tons])
Physical Disruption: Close Damage 10, Affects Corporeal, Alternate Resistance (Fortitude) [30 pp array] (31)
  • Solar Blast: Ranged Damage 12, Accurate 2

Holographic Illusions: Morph 2 (Human males of same size), Limited to Vision and Sound (8)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 3, Power Attack
Languages 2 (Various), Interpose, Teamwork
Beginner's Luck, Eidetic Memory, Improved Initiative, Speed of Thought
Great Endurance, Diehard


Skills: 16 ranks
Acrobatics
Athletics
Close Combat: Unarmed 3/10
Deception
Expertise: Science 4/10
Insight
Intimidation
Investigation
Perception 4/8
Persuasion
Ranged Combat:
Sleight of Hand
Stealth
Technology 5/11
Treatment
Vehicles

Defenses:
Dodge 9 Parry 9 Toughness 10/15
Fortitude 12 Will 8

Offense:
Initiative 10
Unarmed 10, Damage 9/14

Abilities 80 + Defenses 14 + Powers 126 + Advantages 8 + Skills 8 = 236 pp

Complications:
Power Loss: Vision needs solar energy to power his solar blast.
Motivation (Acceptance): He is an artificial being.
Relationship: Lover of Scarlet Witch.
Enemy: Ultron

Because of his Martian Manhunter-like abilities, it was obvious that he was gonna cost around 20 pp\level. He has impervious toughness outside of his array too, because it fits his mid-superhuman stamina. His solar blast is described as weak in Marvel fandom wiki ("can melt through a 1-inch plate of steel in 5 seconds"), so I gave him a standart rank 12 instead. Vision is also described with super-speed but I doubt he frequently uses it. However, he had this in WandaVision so I gave him an initative of 10, he can power stunt if necessary.

I must add Paul Bettany's voice is perfect for artificial humanoid who is kind of aloof but good natured.
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Gladiator

Post by Harnos »

Image

Gladiator PL 15 (291)
Strength 18 Stamina 15 Fighting 8
Agility 4 Dexterity 4
Intellect 1 Awareness 3 Presence 3


Powers:
Enhanced Durability: (37)
Protection 3, Impervious Toughness 10
Immunity 11 (Life Support, Aging)
Enhanced Advantages [Diehard, Great Endurance, Ultimate Effort (Toughness Saves)]
Strontian Might: (5)
Enhanced Strength 4, Limited to Lifting 4 (100.000 tons)
Enhanced Advantage: Ultimate Effort (Strength Checks)
Interstellar Speed: (41)
Movement 1(Environmental Adaptation- Zero Gravity)
Enhanced Advantages: Accurate Attack, Evasion 1, Improved Initiative 3, Move-by Action
Flight 15, Subtle (32.000 MPH) [31 pp array]
  • Speed 15 (64.000 MPH), Quickness 9
  • Movement 1 (Space Travel 1)
Strontian Senses: Extended Vision 3, Infravision, Ultravision, Vision Penetrates Concealment, Microscopic Vision 4 (13)

Strontian Heat Beams: Ranged Damage 15, Accurate 2 [32 pp array] (34)
  • Groundstrike: Burst Area 2 (60 ft) Affliction 14 (Resisted by Dodge, Overcome by Fortitude; Dazed and Vulnerable, Stunned and Prone)
    Extra Condition, Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to targets on the ground, linked with Burst Area 2 (60 ft) on Strength Damage 14, Limited to targets on the ground
  • Super-Breath: Cone Area 1 (60 ft) Affliction 14 (Resisted by Dodge and Overcome by Fortitude; Impaired Toughness and Dazed, Disabled Toughness and Stunned, Paralyzed)
Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 3
Benefit 3 (Shi'ar Imperial Guard's Leader), Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Interpose, Languages 1 (Strontian base, Shi'ar)
Diehard, Great Endurance, Ultimate Effort (Toughness Saves), Ultimate Effort (Strength Checks), Accurate Attack, Evasion 1, Improved Initiative 3, Move-by Action

Skills: 38 ranks
Acrobatics 1/5
Athletics 2/20
Close Combat: Unarmed 3/11
Deception
Expertise: Shi'ar Military 12/13
Insight 3/6
Intimidation 10/13
Investigation
Perception 5/8
Persuasion
Ranged Combat: Throwing 1/8
Sleight of Hand
Stealth
Technology
Treatment
Vehicles 1/4

Defenses:
Dodge 10 Parry 10 Toughness 18
Fortitude 15 Will 13

Offense:
Initiative 16
Unarmed 11, Damage 18
Strontian Heat Beam 11, Damage 15
Throwing 8, Damage 18

Abilities 112 + Defenses 18 + Powers 130 + Advantages 12 + Skills 19 = 291 pp

Complications:
Motivation (Responsibility): Leader of Shi'ar Imperial Guard and loyal to the throne.
Power Loss: Gladiator's powers as well as strength and stamina decline if he loses his self-confidence.

There are few reasons Gladiator is a PL 15 who is not reaching his caps. First he defeated Hyperion but lost to Hulk and Thor, that places him at PL 14,5. Second, the lady you see below is Imperial Champion archetype from Cosmic Handbook and she is a full-fledged PL 15, so it didn't feel right to place him at level 14. However, I must add that this npc is more powerful than DCU Superman. :D Also, Gladiator is the strongest soldier of an interstellar empire, so placing him a little bit above the baseline world protector seems fine. Kallark is faster than Hyperion because of his galactic warrior niche too.


Image
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Re: Black Panther

Post by Harnos »

Image
This photo gives a Frazetta vibe.

Black Panther (T'Challa) PL 12 (265)
Strength 5 Stamina 5 Fighting 13
Agility 9 Dexterity 6
Intellect 7 Awareness 8 Presence 5


Powers:
Black Panther Enhancements: (21)
Speed 2 (8 mph, 120 ft), Leaping 1 (15 ft)
Immunity 2 (Poison, Disease), Limited to Half-Effect
Senses 6: Ultravision, Infravision, Extended Hearing 1, Scent; Acute, Extended 1 and Tracking
Enhanced Advantages 11: Animal Empathy, Benefit 1(Ambidexterity), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Great Endurance, Hide In Plainsight, Improved Initiative 3, Move-by Action, Uncanny Dodge

Vibranium Armor: (45 points, -9 Removable) (36)
Protection 3, Impervious Toughness 6 (Stops 5 Damage, 12 pp), Immunity 5 (Bullets)
Movement 1 (Wall-Crawling)
Concealment 2 (Auditory Senses), Feature 2 (Can Imitate Various Clothing)
Claws: Strength-based Damage 2, Penetrating 7 linked with Weaken Toughness 3, Affects Objects [15 pp array]
  • Energy Daggers: Ranged Multiattack Damage 5
  • Kinetic Energy Discharge: Close Burst Area 1(30 ft) Damage 10, Source: Kinetic Energy
Advantages: 37
Accurate Attack, Close Attack 2, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 1 (+2 Bonus), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4
Agile Feint, Assessment, Benefit 7 (King of Wakanda), Connected, Eidetic Memory, Equipment 5, Fast Grab, Improved Critical 1 (Claws), Inspire 2, Inventor, Languages 3 (Various), Leadership, Takedown, Well-Informed
Animal Empathy, Benefit 1(Ambidexterity), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Great Endurance, Hide In Plainsight, Improved Initiative 3, Move-by Action, Uncanny Dodge

Skills: 84
Acrobatics 7/17
Athletics 11/16
Close Combat: Unarmed and Claws 1/16
Deception 1/6
Expertise: King of Wakanda 8/15
Expertise: Science 6/13
Insight 4/12
Intimidation 5/10
Investigation 1/8
Perception 9/17
Persuasion 9/14
Ranged Combat: Throwing 3/13
Sleight of Hand 2/8
Stealth 9/18
Technology 6/13
Treatment
Vehicles 2/8

Defenses:
Dodge 13 Parry 14 Toughness 5/7/10
Fortitude 9 Will 12

Offense:
Initiative 21
Unarmed 16, Damage 5
Vibranium Claws 16, Damage 7
Energy Daggers 13, Damage 5

Abilities 116 + Defenses 13 + Powers 57 + Advantages 37 + Skills 42 = 265 pp

Complications:
Motivation (Responsibility): T'Challa is king of Wakanda; he must rule and protect it.
Power Loss: If the effects of the magical herb is nullified, he loses his Black Panther Enhancements power and his ability scores decrease. In that state he has Str 3, Sta 3, Agi 5, Dex 3, Fgt 4 and Awe 4.
Enemy: Killmonger, Ulysess Klaw, Namor and Atlanteans.

Black Panther is somewhere between Spiderman and Captain America. He has a remarkable toughness for an agile fighter type thanks to his vibranium armor. He is immune to bullets and unarmed attacks from normal humans, can survive hits from super-powered beings. T'Challa is a skill monkey with super powers who is also king of a hyper-tech nation and a genius, so he is even more expensive than 20 pp/level.
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Dr. Doom

Post by Harnos »

Image

Dr. Doom PL 14 (315)
Strength 3/11 Stamina 3 Fighting 10
Agility 3 Dexterity 4
Intellect 13 Awareness 5 Presence 5


Powers:
Great Genius:Quickness 4, Limited to Mental Tasks (2)

Power Armor: (106, -21 Removable, 85 pp)
Armor & Force Field: Protection 11, Impervious Toughness 7, Impervious Protection 3 (Sustained) (34)
Life Support Systems: Immunity 8 (Environmental Conditions, Suffocation, Airborne/Injected Poisons and Diseases) (8)
Jet System: Flight 8 (500 MPH)
Servo Motor: Enhanced Strength 8 (50 tons total) (16)
Sensors: Senses 7 (Extended Vision 2, Infravision, Ultravision, Ultrahearing, Accurate Radio), Enhanced Perception 6 (10)
Weapon Systems: [33 pp array] (38)
  • Concussive Beams: Ranged Damage 15, Accurate 2, Split
  • Multi-Beams: Ranged Multiattack Damage 10, Accurate 3
  • Hidden Rockets: Ranged Burst Area 1 (30 ft) Damage 8, Selective
  • Electrical Aura: Reaction (Being Touched) Damage 8
  • Tractor Beam: Move Object 12, Accurate 2
Magical Might: [38 pp array] (41)
  • Mystical Snare: Ranged Affliction 12, Cumulative, Accurate 2, Extra Condition, Limited Degree (Resisted by Dodge, Overcome by Damage or Sleight of Hand), (Hindered and Vulnerable, Defenseless and Immobilized)
  • Mystic Blast: Ranged Damage 14, Accurate 2
Mystic Burst: Ranged Burst Area 1 (30 ft) Damage 12
  • Teleport 11 (2000 Miles), Extended Only, Increased Mass 4 (400 kg), Change Direction
Advantages:
Ranged Attack 4, Power Attack
Beginner's Luck, Benefit 6 (Ruler of Latveria), Connected, Eidetic Memory, Equipment 10, Fascinate (Deception), Favored Foe (Fantastic Four), Inventor, Jack of All Trades, Languages 3 (Various), Ritualist, Second Chance (Technology), Skill Mastery 2 (Expertise: Science, Technology), Ultimate Effort 2 (Will, Technology)

Skills: 68 ranks
Acrobatics
Athletics 4/7/15
Close Combat: Unarmed 3/13
Deception 9/14
Expertise: Science 9/22
Expertise: Magic 5/18
Expertise: Ruler 2/15
Insight 8/13
Intimidation 5/10
Investigation 1/14
Perception 1/6/12
Persuasion 8/13
Ranged Combat:
Sleight of Hand
Stealth
Technology 9/22
Treatment 2/15
Vehicles 2/6

Defenses:
Dodge 10 Parry 11 Toughness 3/14/17
Fortitude 8 Will 16

Offense:
Initiative 3
Unarmed 13, Damage 3/11
Concussive Blast 12, Damage 15
Multibeam 14, Damage 10
Hidden Rockets -, Damage 8, Selective
Mystic Blast 12, Damage 14
Mystic Bonds 12, Affliction 12
Mystic Burst -, Damage 12

Abilities 92 + Defenses 24 + Powers 128 + Advantages 37 + Skills 34 = 315 pp

Complications:
Motivation (Patriotism): Dr. Victor von Doom has a responsibility to Latveria.
Motivation (Power): He is one of the most power hungry people on earth.
Enemy: Reed Richards and Fantastic Four.
Disfigured: Dr. Doom's face is disfigured because of a lab accident.

I expected him to be in 280-290 pp range, not over 300. But considering his two arrays, over the top ability scores, two arrays and two ranks of variable as well as his skillmonkey side, it is understandable. He is not a full fledged 14, most world protectors would have an advantage against him, but he can fight Fantastic Four solo for a while with his multiattack capacity and variety.
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Dr. Destroyer

Post by Harnos »

Image

Dr. Destroyer PL 16 (377)
Strength 2/16 Stamina 1 Fighting 8/11
Agility 2 Dexterity 2
Intellect 14 Awareness 6 Presence 7


Powers:
Supreme Genius: Quickness 6, Limited to Mental Tasks (3)
Nanotech Enhancements: (8)
Enhanced Fortitude 7
Immunity 2 (Aging, Disease), Limited to Half-Effect

Destreum Armor: (208, -41 Removable) (167 pp)
Armor: Protection 14, Impervious 10 (34)
Force Barrier Generator: Protection 5, Impervious 2, Enhanced Advantages (Withstand Damage 1 [+2 Trade-Off], Ultimate Effort ]Toughness]) (11)
Sealed Systems: Immunity 10 (Life Support) (10)
Helmet: Immunity 5 (Sensory Afflictions), Senses 8 (Extended Vision 2, Infravision, Ultravision, Ultrahearing, Extended and Accurate Radio), Enhanced Perception 6 (16)
Nanotech Muscles: Enhanced Strength 14 (28)
Combat Computers: Enhanced Fighting 3, Enhanced Dodge 4 , Enhanced Advantage (Speed of Thought)(11)
Anti-Gravity System: Flight 12, Subtle ( 8000 MPH) (25)
Adaptive Tech: Variable 1, Free Action (9) [144]

Destroyer Weapons: [60 pp array] (64)
  • Destroyer Burst: Ranged Burst Area 3 (120 ft) Damage 12
  • Power-Pulse: Close Burst Area Damage 15
  • Destroyer Beam: Ranged Damage 21, Accurate 2, Affects Insubstantial 2
  • Rapid-Fire Beam: Ranged Damage 16, Multiattack, Accurate 3, Affects Insubstantial 2
  • Tangleweb Projector: Ranged Affliction 14, Cumulative, Extra Condition, (Resisted by Dodge, Overcome by Damage), (Hindered and Vulnerable, Defenseless and Immobile, Paralyzed), Accurate 3

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Ranged Attack 3, Power Attack
Beginner's Luck, Benefit 6 (Billionaire, Personal Army), Eidetic Memory, Equipment 20 (Secret Bases and Various Gadgets), Fascinate (Intimidation), Improvised Tools, Inventor, Languages 3 (German Base, English, Various), Minion 14, Skill Mastery 2 (Expertise: Science, Technology), Second Chance 2 (Technology, Mind Control), Ultimate Effort 3 (Expertise: Science, Technology, Will)
Speed Of Thought, Withstand Damage 1, Ultimate Effort 1 (Toughness)

Skills: 80 ranks
Acrobatics
Athletics
Close Combat: Unarmed 3/11/14
Deception 6/13
Expertise: Science 11/25
Expertise: Dollmaking and Piano Playing 6/8 (Dexterity Based)
Insight 8/15
Intimidation 8/15
Investigation 1/15
Perception 3/9/15
Persuasion 11/18
Ranged Combat: Destroyer Weapons 2/7 (11, 13)
Sleight of Hand
Stealth
Technology 11/25
Treatment 4/18
Vehicles 6/8

Defenses:
Dodge 6/10 Parry 8/11 Toughness 2/15/20
Fortitude 8 Will 18

Offense:
Initiative 14
Unarmed 14, Damage 16
Destroyer Beam 11, Damage 21, Affects Insubstantial 2
Rapid-Fire Beam 13, Damage 16
Tangleweb Projector 13, Affliction 14
Destroyer Burst -, Damage 12
Power-Pulse -, Damage 15

Abilities 84+ Defenses 15 + Powers 178 + Advantages 60 + Skills 40 = 377 pp

Complications:
Motivation (Power): Dr. Destroyer will not be content with anything short of dominion over the world.
Arrogance: Albert Zerstoiten is arrogance personified. Despite his incredible intelligence, this weakness can cause him to make obvious mistakes, such as revealing his plans or giving villain speeches.
Infamy: He is the most well-known and feared super villain in the world.

Dr. Destroyer (Albert Zerstoiten) is the most powerful, intelligent and dangerous villain on Earth in Champions Universe. He is the ultimate form of armored megalomaniac archetype. His damage output is incredible in Champions so I put him on par with Thanos. Dr Destroyer is not a galactic level threat, so I limited him to PL 16 but PL 17 can be justified. He didn't have nanotech enhancements in original character sheet, I added it because he had immense stamina and very fit for his age. He is 93 years old in Champions book in 2010. His intellect is equal to Reed Richards but he had much more time to hone his skills. Also he is extremely charismatic, suiting his profile. I made Speed of Thought as part of his suit because I couldn't imagine a 90 something guy reacting that fast without help.

I thought about adopting him to my own game world but his name and personality is too four color. I must add that he is one of the oldest villains in roleplaying games, created around forty years ago, which explains his in-universe age. Kind of like Magneto.

By the way, this is not a direct conversion. I don't know most of the rules.
User avatar
Davies
Posts: 5082
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:37 pm
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by Davies »

And funnily enough, he's been dead for a year and a half by 5th edition canon. ("Doctor Destroyer, his technology failing and thus incapable of supporting his aged body, died in one final, futile attempt to conquer the world in the summer of 2021." -- Galactic Champions (2004), p. 25) It's likely that this will be retconned, if there's a 7th edition.

Great build, BTW.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by Harnos »

Davies wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:37 pm And funnily enough, he's been dead for a year and a half by 5th edition canon. ("Doctor Destroyer, his technology failing and thus incapable of supporting his aged body, died in one final, futile attempt to conquer the world in the summer of 2021." -- Galactic Champions (2004), p. 25) It's likely that this will be retconned, if there's a 7th edition.

Great build, BTW.
Thank you. He is alive in 6th edition. He faked his death in 1992 in Battle of Detroit, spent 17 years advancing his tech in a space station. Then he went to a parallel earth to defeat his parallel dark mage version. Instead, Shadow Destroyer captured him. He is kept in a stasis field and his twin is trying to read his mind and learn his secrets. That is what is told in Champions: Master Villains.
User avatar
catsi563
Posts: 4130
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:29 pm
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by catsi563 »

Interestingly enough Champions/HERO converts for the most part on a 1-1 basis into M&M for example a 60 Str is 12 dice 1 for 5 active points. and allows one to lift 100 tons and do 12 body and 42 stun this correlats with M&M where a 12 strength does +12 damage and lifts 100 tons

the ranks stay fairly consistent from there a 10 dice blast is functionall the same as ranged damage 10 effect
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

Showdown at the Litterbox

Catsi stories
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by Ken »

Harnos wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:22 pm Image

Dr. Destroyer PL 16 (377)
catsi563 wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:02 pm Interestingly enough Champions/HERO converts for the most part on a 1-1 basis into M&M for example a 60 Str is 12 dice 1 for 5 active points. and allows one to lift 100 tons and do 12 body and 42 stun this correlats with M&M where a 12 strength does +12 damage and lifts 100 tons

the ranks stay fairly consistent from there a 10 dice blast is functional the same as ranged damage 10 effect
Lord, I hate this guy. Champions was the super-hero RPG of choice for my group for over 22 years, until we discovered DC Adventures in 2011. Every edition, 2nd-5th, touted this guy as the main bad guy of the Champions universe all the while saying "to keep things playable attacks should be in the 10-12dg range, and defenses shouldn't go above 30. Make up your gol-durned mind. "Here, have a main badguy who, if you play within our recommended range, who should be able to curbstomp EVERYBODY."

It was years before Hero Games ever came out with any books about how to run a high powered game, even though anyone trying to use their campaign books pretty much had to be running a high-powered game.

All in all, this is a pretty good adaptation of the guy. But you might want to kick him up to PL 19 or 20 if you want him to be as obnoxious as the actual hero games version.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by Harnos »

Ken wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:25 pm
Harnos wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:22 pm Image

Dr. Destroyer PL 16 (377)
catsi563 wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:02 pm Interestingly enough Champions/HERO converts for the most part on a 1-1 basis into M&M for example a 60 Str is 12 dice 1 for 5 active points. and allows one to lift 100 tons and do 12 body and 42 stun this correlats with M&M where a 12 strength does +12 damage and lifts 100 tons

the ranks stay fairly consistent from there a 10 dice blast is functional the same as ranged damage 10 effect
Lord, I hate this guy. Champions was the super-hero RPG of choice for my group for over 22 years, until we discovered DC Adventures in 2011. Every edition, 2nd-5th, touted this guy as the main bad guy of the Champions universe all the while saying "to keep things playable attacks should be in the 10-12dg range, and defenses shouldn't go above 30. Make up your gol-durned mind. "Here, have a main badguy who, if you play within our recommended range, who should be able to curbstomp EVERYBODY."

It was years before Hero Games ever came out with any books about how to run a high powered game, even though anyone trying to use their campaign books pretty much had to be running a high-powered game.

All in all, this is a pretty good adaptation of the guy. But you might want to kick him up to PL 19 or 20 if you want him to be as obnoxious as the actual hero games version.
Yeah, I can understand your resentment. The guy is very one dimensional and overpowered, shouldn't be overrepresented at all.

Thank you. His 30d6 damage output is insane. It can be converted directly but Omega from Freedom City would be a better match at PL 19 with 24 damage. However, designers generally use level 16 as world destroying master villain benchmark, so I used that as well. Also I don't like power armor guys going against cosmic threats alone.
greycrusader
Posts: 1179
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by greycrusader »

Yeah, Dr. Destroyer is VERY one-note; he’s a mad scientist who craves world domination and…well, that’s mostly it, really. And it’s completely fine to have a Big Bad who’s just that, but making him so as to take up so much focus of the official campaign setting is problematic. What if a GM or the PCs just find Dr. Destroyer boring? There’s also the fact that he was the worst example of power creep in the game, getting more OP with every appearance.

And yes, starting with the third Enemies book, it got harder and harder to use their source books unless running a high-powered campaign.

All my best.
Harnos
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:03 am

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by Harnos »

greycrusader wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:11 pm Yeah, Dr. Destroyer is VERY one-note; he’s a mad scientist who craves world domination and…well, that’s mostly it, really. And it’s completely fine to have a Big Bad who’s just that, but making him so as to take up so much focus of the official campaign setting is problematic. What if a GM or the PCs just find Dr. Destroyer boring? There’s also the fact that he was the worst example of power creep in the game, getting more OP with every appearance.

And yes, starting with the third Enemies book, it got harder and harder to use their source books unless running a high-powered campaign.

All my best.
This sounds bad. I read that some people also say Champions doesn't work well for JL level of power, must be a bad combo.
User avatar
catsi563
Posts: 4130
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:29 pm
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by catsi563 »

Harnos wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:42 pm
greycrusader wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:11 pm Yeah, Dr. Destroyer is VERY one-note; he’s a mad scientist who craves world domination and…well, that’s mostly it, really. And it’s completely fine to have a Big Bad who’s just that, but making him so as to take up so much focus of the official campaign setting is problematic. What if a GM or the PCs just find Dr. Destroyer boring? There’s also the fact that he was the worst example of power creep in the game, getting more OP with every appearance.

And yes, starting with the third Enemies book, it got harder and harder to use their source books unless running a high-powered campaign.

All my best.
This sounds bad. I read that some people also say Champions doesn't work well for JL level of power, must be a bad combo.
Its not true Champions/HERO is just as good as M&M for high end campaigns as it is for street level.

the trick is that the math gets a bit thicker the deeper into the high end stuff you go too many people dont get that part and you end up with planet man or with a guy with the intellect of a goldfish and the strength to punch the hulk to pluto
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

Showdown at the Litterbox

Catsi stories
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by Ken »

catsi563 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:27 pm
Harnos wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:42 pm
greycrusader wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:11 pm Yeah, Dr. Destroyer is VERY one-note; he’s a mad scientist who craves world domination and…well, that’s mostly it, really. And it’s completely fine to have a Big Bad who’s just that, but making him so as to take up so much focus of the official campaign setting is problematic. What if a GM or the PCs just find Dr. Destroyer boring? There’s also the fact that he was the worst example of power creep in the game, getting more OP with every appearance.

And yes, starting with the third Enemies book, it got harder and harder to use their source books unless running a high-powered campaign.

All my best.
This sounds bad. I read that some people also say Champions doesn't work well for JL level of power, must be a bad combo.
Its not true Champions/HERO is just as good as M&M for high end campaigns as it is for street level.

the trick is that the math gets a bit thicker the deeper into the high end stuff you go too many people dont get that part and you end up with planet man or with a guy with the intellect of a goldfish and the strength to punch the hulk to pluto
With all do respect, no Champions doesn't work as well as M&M for high end campaigns. Trust me. As someone who ran a high-end Champions game for 23 years and then converted around 1000 characters from Champions to M&M, when M&M 3 came out I'm quite certain of this.

You see, in M&M everything can be resolved with 1d20. The physical die may have to be passed around the room, and its easier if each player has his own die, but that's it. The biggest hassle for a high powered game is one may want a Damage Resistance Matrix that goes further than 20 ranks.

In Champions, in a higher powered game is invariably slower than a low-powered game. Damage results are rolled with a variable number of dice. Counting the damage for a 6d6 attack isn't that much faster than it is for an 8d6 attack. But counting the damage for a 8d6 attack is considerably faster than counting for a 16d6 attack. And then there's the extra algebra of subtracting the damage from the physical or energy defense, and then modifying one's Stun score. And for good or ill, subtracting 57 STUN damage from a 33 PD, and then subtracting the 24 STUN that gets through from the your character's current 46 STUN shouldn't be any harder than 33 STUN stun from a 19 PD and subtracting that 14 STUN from your character's 27 STUN. It's a beautiful idea that doesn't stand up to a diverse player group. Sure, those of us who minored in Mathematics can count the extra dice and can do the damage algebra in our heads. Great. The player who never went to college, though? What about her? Or what if the player has math anxiety? Doing the counting and the algebra takes that person longer. And the bigger the numbers, the longer it takes.

And then there's the lovely SPEED score, and how it affects game play. Heaven help you if you have someone bad at math who wants to play a speedster.

Champions can work with higher level characters, but it does do lower level characters better.

Mutants & Masterminds, at least the 3rd edition, doesn't have the same hang-ups. A 17 rank damage attack vs a 16 rank toughness is EXACTLY the same die-roll wise as a 7 rank damage attack and 6 rank toughness. The die rolls just scale better.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Marvel and DC Heavy Hitters (Dr. Doom, Dr. Destroyer of Champions RPG))

Post by Ares »

Dr. Destroyer is perhaps the most "on the nose" analogue in Champions, with only "Grond is the Incredible Hulk" being a close second. Destroyer is literally Dr. Doom in a world where almost no heroes reach the Superman / Thor tiers of power. Both are extreme geniuses with powerful suits of armor with capes, arrogant, eloquent and with a desire for power, with at least the appearance of nobility, and have armies of fanatically loyal minions at their back and call.

If anything, it's interesting how they tried to differentiate Destroyer from Doom by taking things AWAY from Destroyer. Destroyer has no access to magic, no nation of his own and no actual code of honor. He is in all ways more selfish and evil than Doom, and thus less complex a character. But where Doom is a character in an ongoing comic universe, Destroyer is largely there to be a threat for players to punch. 5th edition gave him a solid look and some real presence as the villain that has had the most impact on the world, but he benefits largely from the lower PLs of Champions heroes.

In terms of looks and abilities, he's kind of a hybrid of Dr. Doom and Cobra Commander, which is a fun enough hybrid type that I've used it myself.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Post Reply