Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

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Libra X
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Libra X »

On an unrelated note, I wanted to ask this question on Friday, but ran out of time before my self-imposed Internet curfew: If asked to add non-Fawcett characters to Earth-S/Earth-5 (or some equivalent setting where the original Marvel Family gets to take pride of place as THE local superheroes) what do you feel should be the criteria governing the selection process?

That is, how does one best identify characters that would fill a gap (or at any rate a perceived gap) in the setting without diluting the Fawcett comics flavour to the point where things get a bit too “Standard DC”?
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Ares
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Ares »

Libra X wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:03 pm On an unrelated note, I wanted to ask this question on Friday, but ran out of time before my self-imposed Internet curfew: If asked to add non-Fawcett characters to Earth-S/Earth-5 (or some equivalent setting where the original Marvel Family gets to take pride of place as THE local superheroes) what do you feel should be the criteria governing the selection process?

That is, how does one best identify characters that would fill a gap (or at any rate a perceived gap) in the setting without diluting the Fawcett comics flavour to the point where things get a bit too “Standard DC”?
If I were going to keep Earth-S separate from the main DCU, I'd probably go with a smaller version of the Earth Liberty idea I had a while back . . . which I need to get back to at some point . . . but anyway, the idea being that writer E. Nelson Bridwell had already put Kid Eternity on Earth-S to make him Captain Marvel Jr.'s long lost brother, owing to many similarities the characters had. To further cement the idea, they referenced one adventure Freddy had where he apparently encountered Sherlock Holmes, which Bridwell retconned as Kid Eternity helping his brother out from behind the scenes by summoning the detective himself.

Along those lines, I'd probably combine the characters from Quality Comics and Charlton Comics into Earth-S, and if I had my way, I'd also throw in the Hanna-Barbera Action heroes like Jonny Quest, Space Ghost, the Herculoids, Young Samson, etc. That's enough characters to have a solid bunch of Golden Age heroes, as well as possible legacy heroes, and heroes for the modern era. And maybe just for some diversity, I'd throw in the Milestone heroes as well, though primarily Static, Icon, Rocket and Hardware (no Blood Syndicate or Shadow Cabinet, though some of their members might still exist), with their influence being softened a bit, being more akin to the Static animated series.

If I were to go this route, I'd have the Marvel Family be the world's first modern heroes (as heroes like Mightor had defended the past, and pulp heroes like Midnight had been fighting as well), and inspired a whole new era of superheroics. In this world, magic isn't as hidden a force as it is in others, and mythological elements are more present, so you can have elements like Uncle Sam (who honestly fits in fine with the Earth-S crew). Uncle Sam might even be some kind of magical / mythical reaction to the various kind of Nazi superscience and magic activities, and Sam might even be someone empowering certain heroes. Meanwhile there's still a place for normal heroes to fight, whether by donning a costume, simple skill or advanced technology. So while the Marvel Family fights evil alongside folks like Plastic Man, the Ray and such, folks like Spy Smasher, Blackhawk and Blue Tracer fight with their wits and their gear.

Eventually WWII is won, the heroics continue for a while, but something causes the Marvel Family, the associated heroes and Fawcett City to be lost in time somehow. No idea what at this point, but they're inaccessible for decades. So the other heroes of the world have to pick up the slack.

Folks like the Son of Vulcan are empowered because the Olympians feel some guilt over being unable to help the Marvel Family, and thus want to have a protector for Earth to carry on in their stead. Some heroes retire or die, some have extended lives (like Plastic Man), and new heroes arise, such as the second Blue Beetle, Dan Garrett Jr., son of the original Blue Beetle, who fought evil with his magical scarab. The need to coordinate their remining heroes results in the creation of Inter-Nation Security, whose primary super agent is the hero Birdman.

Superheroes never totally vanish, as the threats they face never go away, but there are never as many heroes as there were during the Golden Age.

That is until some modern crisis forces the heroes of the era to team up, and it results in the Marvel Family's return (possibly with the help of super scientist Dr. Benton Quest and his young friend Ted Kord). The Marvel Family's return ushers in a new age of heroes, resulting in a third Blue Beetle, Captain Atom, Icon, etc. Young heroes join the fight as well such as Static and Samson. The needs of this new world inspire the Captain to form a superteam separate from the Marvel Family, one with folks like Ted and Icon as members, while Captain Atom works with heroes more primarily associated with America as the new Freedom Fighters.

This gives the world a solid history, plenty of potential legacy heroes. For instance, I'd keep Jaime Reyes, but have him as a separate character from the Blue Beetle, and call him something like the Scarab.

And the space scene wouldn't be boring either, as folks like Space Ghost, the Herculoids, the Teen Force and the like are battling evil, along with whatever forgotten space heroes I can find in these books.

The result would be a universe that has a decently large cast, plenty of potential for new heroes, legacy heroes, but doesn't feel too bloated, at least in my mind.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Libra X
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Libra X »

Interesting stuff - it’s nice to see Uncle Sam & the Freedom Fighters not get stuck on ‘Earth Nazi’ if nothing else.
Libra X
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Libra X »

My own problem, when working out my take on a Multiverse, is that I’m always torn between my desire that everyone gets their place to shine, my desire that every Earth be individual unto itself (also that it’s natives be true to their own selves) and my awareness that - on a practical level - there’s only so many worlds a reader can reasonably keep track of, so somebody’s going to have to share space somewhere whether they’re compatible or not …
Libra X
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Libra X »

By the way, thank you for answering my questions, oh Ares.😊
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Ken
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:03 pmUncle Sam (who honestly fits in fine with the Earth-S crew).
Image
Last edited by Ken on Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"he can't even run his own life; I'll be damned if he'll run mine" ― Jonathan Edwards "Sunshine"
Libra X
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Libra X »

The image isn’t displaying - at least not on my screen - but am I correct in believing that’s the old comic book cover showing Captain Billy shaking hands with Uncle Sam?

I’m not going to lie, my first reaction to seeing that one on the DC database was “crossover!” (Given the old Quality Comics version of Uncle Sam was accompanied by a young ward named - if memory serves - “Buddy”* it’s a little amusing to imagine Old Sam, popping in for a visit on Earth-S, mirroring that dynamic with Billy Batson in a series of comic beats culminating with Billy deciding “Well if a good American can’t trust Uncle Sam, who can?” Captain Marvel showing up one SHAZAM! later and Uncle Sam (who will, of course, faithfully keep Billy’s secret) being so surprised HE gives the iconic “Holy Moley!”

Before, of course, leaving Captain Marvel et al to get on with the Good Work and getting back “Where folks really need me” (This mental image being more or less a Golden Age crossover that never was, playful allusions to “Freedom Fighters” would be about a quarter-century early).

Oh, and something I only noticed quite recently: in THE MULTIVERSITY Thunderworld and Earth-X are exactly opposite each other in the orrery of worlds: I wonder what we ought to make of that? (Mere mirror images or a hint at some sort of thematic resonance, with each serving as a foil to the other?).

*Whatever happened to Uncle Sam’s favourite nephew, I wonder? Hopefully he ended up on some version of Earth-Quality where the Nazis didn’t have the scriptwriter on their side).
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Ken
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Ken »

I don't know why when I post images, they often aren't visible. I made a small edit that might help. It's CMA #16 where Cap and Uncle Sam are about to "fight shoulder to shoulder" so Cap is rolling up his sleeve while Sam takes off his coat.
"he can't even run his own life; I'll be damned if he'll run mine" ― Jonathan Edwards "Sunshine"
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Ken
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:03 pmThis gives the world a solid history, plenty of potential legacy heroes. For instance, I'd keep Jaime Reyes, but have him as a separate character from the Blue Beetle, and call him something like the Scarab.
I hereby suggest:

el Escarabajo Verde

This implies changing the colour of his suit, and since the traditional colour of items of power from outer space is green, at DC, the colour change is to green.
"he can't even run his own life; I'll be damned if he'll run mine" ― Jonathan Edwards "Sunshine"
Libra X
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Re: Captain Marvel, the Marvel Familiy and Shazam - Ramblings and Reconstruction: The Rock of Eternity

Post by Libra X »

I’m not sure if this is the proper place for such a post, but the mental image of Mr Chris Hemsworth appearing in a future SHAZAM movie as a golden-haired, charismatic and probably scene-stealing Asgardian god who manages to get Captain Billy caught up in the hunt for Thor’s hammer (Which has gone missing, presumed acquired under mysterious circumstances) recently occurred to me and I wanted to share it.

I am, of course, suggesting that Mr Hemsworth be cast as the DC cinematic version of Loki (bonus points if he is introduced trying to fool Captain Billy into thinking he IS the veritable Thor, only to stumble over the fact that he twitches when he hears thunder - he might finally be exposed because the hammer he pretends to be his legendary accoutrement is actually a walking stick - though he’s able to get The Captain into severe trouble by dint of being so devious he can’t even be relied upon to be consistently untrustworthy).

Mental Image of the real Thor being played by Mr Olafur Darri Olafsson (whom I would absolutely love to hear voice The Mighty Thor in some Marvel animation), should he show up.
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