What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken »

NoOneofConsequence wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:10 pm Any thoughts on the United States of Captain America?
No. Don't know what those are.
Ms S: I hardly think it'll enhance yr reputation at the UN Prof. Plum, if it's revealed that U have been implicated not only in adultery with 1 of your patients, but in her death & the deaths of 5 others.

PP: U don't know what kind of people they have at the UN; I may go up in their estimation.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

Ken wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:26 pm
NoOneofConsequence wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:10 pm Any thoughts on the United States of Captain America?
No. Don't know what those are.
Apparently some sort of miniseries about Cap and various associated characters (Falcon, USAgent, Bucky) going around the US - looking for Cap's shield or something - and meeting all of these local "Captain Americas" who have somehow been inspired by Captain America to start cosplaying as some version of him.
From what I've seen, it seems to be some sort of diversity for diversity's sake initiative aimed primarily at getting Twitter traffic and media coverage. Unfortunately, every time they unveil the newest one, they're being greeted by a lot of distain and mockery, especially from members of the group they're supposedly "representing". The latest one, for example, is some sort of Filipino-American girl. People from the Philippines are apparently unimpressed, as America's initial occupation of the islands after the Spanish American War are not a fondly remembered period. And to make matters worse, apparently the character's first name is turns out to be a Filipino slang term for genitalia.
Previous characters have included a homeless gay teen in overalls who uses a trash can lid for a shield (no idea if the issue of prostitution among young gay male runaways in the inner city is ever addressed with the character), and a Native American in what is clearly patterned on a religious ceremonial outfit. (Honestly, all of the ones I've seen so far look like they were part of the same "super easy to cosplay on the cheep" design school that was behind Ms. Marvel's original outfit.) :|
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken »

NoOneofConsequence wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:02 pm Apparently some sort of miniseries about Cap and various associated characters (Falcon, USAgent, Bucky) going around the US - looking for Cap's shield or something - and meeting all of these local "Captain Americas" who have somehow been inspired by Captain America to start cosplaying as some version of him.
From what I've seen, it seems to be some sort of diversity for diversity's sake initiative aimed primarily at getting Twitter traffic and media coverage. Unfortunately, every time they unveil the newest one, they're being greeted by a lot of disdain and mockery, especially from members of the group they're supposedly "representing". The latest one, for example, is some sort of Filipino-American girl. People from the Philippines are apparently unimpressed, as America's initial occupation of the islands after the Spanish American War are not a fondly remembered period. And to make matters worse, apparently the character's first name is turns out to be a Filipino slang term for genitalia.
Previous characters have included a homeless gay teen in overalls who uses a trash can lid for a shield (no idea if the issue of prostitution among young gay male runaways in the inner city is ever addressed with the character), and a Native American in what is clearly patterned on a religious ceremonial outfit. (Honestly, all of the ones I've seen so far look like they were part of the same "super easy to cosplay on the cheap" design school that was behind Ms. Marvel's original outfit.) :|
Ah. A new variant of what TV Tropes calls "Captain Ethnic". Write a preachy story from an ivory tower... while doing as little research as possible. Plus ça change plus la même chose.
Ms S: I hardly think it'll enhance yr reputation at the UN Prof. Plum, if it's revealed that U have been implicated not only in adultery with 1 of your patients, but in her death & the deaths of 5 others.

PP: U don't know what kind of people they have at the UN; I may go up in their estimation.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Well, the anniverasy issue of F4 just came and I don't think anyone could ever hope to polish this turd.
So, the marriage of Doctor Doom and Victorious...
Just for the hors d'oeuvre, we discover that Symakaria is no more, apparently Victor annex it off-panel so that Victorious, who is actually Sumkarian by birth, would be a "proper Latverian citizen" before marrying him.
Meanwhile the quarter is discussing if they're actually going to attend the cerimony. Reed has given his word to Victor to be the best man, plus according to Latverian tradition, after the marriage the king will issue a general amnesty and pardon, meaning a complete blank slate for the team. Sue, of course, suspects foul-play but is willing to go along. Ben doesn't like the situation one bit, but is okay since, apparently, is now canon that the accident that scarred Victor was his fault (apparently he messed up the original experiment by accident). Johnny is trying to play cool, but his more or less sweating his life off. In the end the team goes and Johnny tries to get Sky to come with, but she doesn't even answer him and decides that she has to go back home.

As the F4 reach Latveria, we got to cute continuity nods: apparently Victor still has his pet tigers from F4 #5 of 1962; also he set his wedding on the same day as Reed and Susan's anniversary.

The night before the wedding, Johnny tries to sneak into Victorious' chamber... BY FLYING OVER THE CASTLE FULL TORCH!!! Once again, it looks like Slott consider Johnny brain-damaged or something. Of course he's immediately shot down by a Doom-Bot and Victorious has to step in to avoid anything worse.
Meanwhile Victor is actually keeping up his end of the bargain and dismantling all his "kill the F4 projects".

On to the wedding itself. Everything seems to be going great. Namor and T'Challa are among the guests trying to "out-king" each other, while Ben played the peace-maker. Of course shit had to happen and Victorious decided to spill the beans about her all-nighter with Johnny... just as she was about to say "I do"!!! Of course, Victor goes ballistic and the story turns into a massive superhero battle.

Now, I have to be fair, Victorious breakdown was handled decently, she doesn't seem to have fallen for Johnny or anything, she actually spill it because she doesn't want to keep secrets from Victor... but God the timing sucked in the extreme!
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Davies »

Woodclaw wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:30 pm Well, the anniverasy issue of F4 just came and I don't think anyone could ever hope to polish this turd.
So, the marriage of Doctor Doom and Victorious...
Just for the hors d'oeuvre, we discover that Symakaria is no more, apparently Victor annex it off-panel
This happened in Doom's mini-series, a while ago.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Woodclaw »

Davies wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:08 pm
Woodclaw wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:30 pm Well, the anniverasy issue of F4 just came and I don't think anyone could ever hope to polish this turd.
So, the marriage of Doctor Doom and Victorious...
Just for the hors d'oeuvre, we discover that Symakaria is no more, apparently Victor annex it off-panel
This happened in Doom's mini-series, a while ago.
I stand corrected.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

Woodclaw wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:30 pm Well, the anniverasy issue of F4 just came and I don't think anyone could ever hope to polish this turd.
So, the marriage of Doctor Doom and Victorious...
Just for the hors d'oeuvre, we discover that Symakaria is no more, apparently Victor annex it off-panel so that Victorious, who is actually Sumkarian by birth, would be a "proper Latverian citizen" before marrying him.
Meanwhile the quarter is discussing if they're actually going to attend the cerimony. Reed has given his word to Victor to be the best man, plus according to Latverian tradition, after the marriage the king will issue a general amnesty and pardon, meaning a complete blank slate for the team. Sue, of course, suspects foul-play but is willing to go along. Ben doesn't like the situation one bit, but is okay since, apparently, is now canon that the accident that scarred Victor was his fault (apparently he messed up the original experiment by accident). Johnny is trying to play cool, but his more or less sweating his life off. In the end the team goes and Johnny tries to get Sky to come with, but she doesn't even answer him and decides that she has to go back home.

As the F4 reach Latveria, we got to cute continuity nods: apparently Victor still has his pet tigers from F4 #5 of 1962; also he set his wedding on the same day as Reed and Susan's anniversary.

The night before the wedding, Johnny tries to sneak into Victorious' chamber... BY FLYING OVER THE CASTLE FULL TORCH!!! Once again, it looks like Slott consider Johnny brain-damaged or something. Of course he's immediately shot down by a Doom-Bot and Victorious has to step in to avoid anything worse.
Meanwhile Victor is actually keeping up his end of the bargain and dismantling all his "kill the F4 projects".

On to the wedding itself. Everything seems to be going great. Namor and T'Challa are among the guests trying to "out-king" each other, while Ben played the peace-maker. Of course shit had to happen and Victorious decided to spill the beans about her all-nighter with Johnny... just as she was about to say "I do"!!! Of course, Victor goes ballistic and the story turns into a massive superhero battle.

Now, I have to be fair, Victorious breakdown was handled decently, she doesn't seem to have fallen for Johnny or anything, she actually spill it because she doesn't want to keep secrets from Victor... but God the timing sucked in the extreme!
So it sounds like, again, Dan doesn't really "get" Johnny and that Sky was created solely to stir up drama for this moment.

It sounds like the best written part of the story was Victorious, and it might have actually been nice for her revelation to come out and Doom just goes "I know." And proceeds to say that there is nothing that happens within his castle that he is not aware of, and that he felt no anger or shame. Victorious had not been betrothed to Victor at the time, and of course any woman worthy of Victor Von Doom would be desired by other, lesser men. Slott could have even used this as a moment to take a jab at Johnny be calling what Victorious did an act of generosity and compassion towards such an unworthy individual.

It sounds like the only person in the FF Slott really "got" was Ben, and everyone else if off by certain degrees.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

DC's Pride book came out recently, and there was a story in it that reminded me of an earlier topic I'd made regarding an analysis made by Literature Devil and whether Superman was still relevant. Specifically, the idea that some modern writers associate more with villains than with heroes for reasons that really paint said writers as somewhat shallow and self-serving.

The story that reminded me of this was about the Pied Piper, a reformed villain and current hero who has been gay since 1991. And while I know my thoughts on orientation swapping are pretty well known here, I didn't have any issue with this instance. Piper never really had a romantic love life before this, no girlfriends or the like that I'm aware of, so this wasn't changing his orientation so much as informing us of it.

In any case, in DC Pride, Piper comes across a new villain, Drummer Boy, who has reverse engineered Piper's tech, but using drums instead of wind instruments. Drummer Boy is using said tech to mind control a party full of rich people into sending money to a bank about. Piper intervenes and the two briefly fight, calling Piper a sell out and how Drummer is doing this "for their community". When Piper asks him to explain, Drummer mentions how a land lord has raised the rent in a neighborhood with a large LGBTQ population (or as he calls it, the "gayborhood"), and that he's going to use the funds he's having these rich people donate to a fund he can use to cover that rent.

Piper says that he can't condone using his technology to steal from people (calling the act "mind-rape-y"), but there has to be a better way to deal with a discriminatory land lord. So instead they go break into the land lord's home, use a sonic blast to knock him into his pool, and the Piper offers the land lord a check. It's apparently a very generous amount of money based on the property's current value, and the land lord is going to accept that check and sign over ownership of that neighborhood to Piper. Because if he doesn't, Piper and the Drummer are going to use their technology to shatter his ear drums, and then do worse to him.

So the land lord apparently signs the rights over, and the pair of supervillains run off into the night. Drummer Boy says "That was ICONIC", to which Piper agrees, asking what they're going to do next.

The story's title? "Be Gay, Do Crime".

You'll note I refer to the pair at the end as both being supervillains. Because that's what Piper decided to return to being here. Let's review.

The land lord increases the rent for his property, and apparently do so when the tenants can manage to meet the new price he demands. It could be argued that this is a scummy business practice, but it's also entirely legal. The response from most normal people would either to be to get a lawyer to see if their rights as tenants are being abused in some way or to simply leave for other locations that don't charge as much, and let word of mouth indicate that the land lord overcharges. He loses business and suffers accordingly. If this were a Batman story, Bruce would have investigated the guy, and it would have been revealed he was doing this for shady reasons, possibly illegal reasons, and the law would have been brought in to deal with the guy in the end.

Instead, Drummer Boy uses mind control to steal money from people. Piper rightly stops him.

Drummer Boy tells his story. Piper automatically assumes the land lord is a bigot who is specifically discriminating against gay people in that neighborhood. The problem is there's no actual evidence for it, outside of the land lord being coded as evil because he's drawn to resemble Donald Trump. There's no mention of him only doing it to these properties specifically because the people there are gay. For all we know, he's doing this to all of his current properties and people everywhere in the city, but Drummer Boy only cares because it's happening to "his people" in "his gayborhood".

Piper still says that it isn't cool to mind control people. Which is good. He is okay with then going over to the land lord and threatening him with actual physical harm to get him to sign over the rights to his properties for a fair fee. You know, the way the Mafia would make people offers they couldn't refuse, or how corrupt land owners in westerns would run people off their property so that they could get control of it.

Then Piper and Drummer Boy run off into the night, smiling and elated at having seen justice done, wondering what their next big adventure will be.

In a better story, we would have seen actual evidence of the land lord being a bigot, rather than Piper just accepting Drummer Boy's word for it. I mean, imagine if Drummer Boy was lying to him? Piper basically just automatically believes Drummer Boy because he says he's gay and that he looked up to the Piper when he was growing up. We would have also seen actual work put in to make the land lord evil, doing something actual criminal, maybe even getting him to admit on a hidden camera that he was doing this because he hated gay people.

Hell, they could have stolen an idea from Fullmetal Alchemist by having Piper talk to the land lord while Drummer Boy broadcasts everything being said across the air waves, engineering a public confession about his criminal acts. And when the land lord attacks the Piper for this, charges are brought against him for assault and Piper can spin it into him being able to purchase the property legally. Maybe have the tenants of the neighborhood preparing a lawsuit that they'll drop if the land lord signs the rights over to Piper for a generous fee.

Instead, Piper opts to avoid mind control and goes straight to threats of physical violence for someone who not only hasn't done anything illegal, but hasn't been proven to be what Drummer Boy claims. And rather than be somewhat morally torn by why he's done, being worried about sliding back into supervillainy, wondering what the Flash will say, Piper is smiling happily as he and Drummer Boy run off into the night.

It kind of reminds me of a series Hellcat had a few years back where she happily abused a man solely on his wife's say-so, without any evidence of him actually having done anything wrong. Or a She-Hulk story where Jen attacks a police transport vehicle, injuring the driver, and pulling the criminal inside out so that the criminal's female victim could have some time to get some revenge on the guy. The guy who had already been sentenced for a crime that was never specified, and who was being sent off to jail. In an act that should have gotten Jen arrested, disbarred and probably got the case thrown out and the guy set free, assuming he survived.

There's the ghost of a decent story here, but it gets killed twice over because the writer doesn't want to put in the actual work, and instead basically just go for the cheap revenge fantasy.

I'd honestly write a follow up story where it's revealed that Drummer Boy lied to Piper when the Flash confronts them both. Piper tells his story, and Flash asks if Drummer Boy actually supplied any actual evidence to back up his claim. Piper thinks about it, gets a horrible realization, and turns to Drummer Boy. Piper then uses his flute to get Drummer Boy to reveal the truth. Drummer Boy was just stealing from the wealthy there because he wanted that money for himself. When Piper showed up, he quickly spun that story to get Piper on his side. The land lord actually did nothing wrong, his prices were fair, and Drummer Boy made him out to be a homophobe to get Piper onto his side. The land lord is actually bringing criminal charges against the pair, and is contesting the sign over of his property since it was made under duress.

Piper would have something of a panic attack, realizing he just threw away years as a hero and stumbled back into supervillainy because he had a knee-jerk reaction to a story. Drummer Boy attacks Flash, saying that both he and Piper can get away, but Piper instead takes Drummer Boy down and turns himself in. Later the land lord appears at Piper's trial, and works out something with the judge. He understands Piper was tricked into doing it, and is willing to have Piper's sentence commuted to community service in the neighborhood. Piper agrees, the neighborhood becomes one he regularly patrols, and he hosts events there to help that community out.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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NoOneofConsequence
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

I wish more people like you were writing comic books. 😕
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
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