Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Jabroniville
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Batwing (Zavimbe)

Post by Jabroniville »

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BATWING I (David Zavimbe)
Created By:
Grant Morrison & Chris Burnham
First Appearance: Batman Incorporated #5 (May 2011)
Role: Spinoff Character
Group Affiliations: None

-So one of the many new characters to get a shot during the initial "New 52" offerings was Batwing, one of the "Batmen of Many Nations" concept reignited by Grant Morrison (based off of an old DC comics concept where Batman would meet non-powered superheroes in many different countries, and an old story where a young Black kid tells his friends how he imagines Batman to be, calling him "Batwings"). Batwing is a Congolese police officer trained by Batman as the "Batman of Africa" in his mission to spread justice across the globe. He is given his own book in the New 52, lasting a couple of years, detailing him fighting corruption within the police force, and a few different villains, like Dr. Dedalus and the spree-killer Massacre. He even joins the Justice League International book for its short run. His backstory includes being orphaned by AIDS and forced to fight as a child soldier, eventually murdering the evil general after his brother was killed for insubordination. However, he eventually learns that Massacre IS his brother, who had been brainwashed.

-However, rather quickly, Batwing #19 replaces David with a new black guy- Luke Fox, the son of Lucius Fox. The character is pretty well discarded after that, one of those things that modern comics tends to do ("Hey, nobody's buying the new Minority Spinoff Hero? Well shit- let's write him out and make a NEW one! That'll fix it!"). I guess David resigned.

-This Batwing appears to be a good fighter, wielding a Flying Batsuit of sorts. Probably PL 8-ish.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by Shock »

Wow, tough gig! Batman of Africa is a LOT bigger job than Batman of Gotham.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Shock wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:22 am Wow, tough gig! Batman of Africa is a LOT bigger job than Batman of Gotham.
Yeah he might not have the Joker to deal with, but curing the crime and corruption of an entire continent is a TINY bit bigger job, especially for a dude with only basic military and police training.
Jabroniville
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Batwing (Luke Fox)

Post by Jabroniville »

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BATWING II (Luke Fox)
Created By:
Jimmy Palmiotti & Justin Gray
First Appearance: Batwing #19 (June 2013)
Role: Spinoff Character
Group Affiliations: None

-So all of a sudden new writers take over the Batwing book, and they decide that longtime supporting character Lucius Fox has had a son all this time. Hey, it's a new continuity- it happens. So he's an MIT grad who grew up with a lot of wealth, but is heroic and turns out was Batman's "first choice" as Batwing, as the book leaves Africa and is now about another Gotham City bat-hero. Yeah, I dunno. He also appears in the popular Batgirl series, dating Barbara Gordon, with neither knowing each other's superheroic identity. I found this kind of hilarious, because even though I LOVED this book, it was incredibly weird how Luke just kinda shows up, reveals a relationship with Barbara, and they're like super lovey-dovey and in a relationship that NEVER MATTERS TO THE BOOK EVER. It's almost transparently obvious they wanted "Woke Points" by having the heroine date a Black man. I mean, it was a book that leaned on that kind of stuff, what with the Ultradiversity Checklist Supporting Cast (Muslim girl in head wrap! Asian person! Trans friend! Indian guy! Overweight girl!). No idea how his actual book was. This is the version that has had the crossover stuff, now appearing in the Batwoman TV show.

-Batwing was smart and rich, and a good fighter. Probably PL 8-ish again.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by Ken »

So... what about their precursor, Blackwing?
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brothersale
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by brothersale »

The Batwing book started strong but i felt it nosed dived hard when they changed over to Luke Fox, as instead of being away from Gotham and Batman, now it was in the same place attempting to play the same notes as Batman in terms of story and just being less because of it. On the whole Batwing was much more interesting in Africa exploring that setting building that section of the world than in Gotham
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by Orbiter »

brothersale wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:55 pm On the whole Batwing was much more interesting in Africa exploring that setting building that section of the world than in Gotham
To much work for the creative team, I figure. They have to tell a story set in an environment that the writer, artist and audience know relatively little about, but that they can't just make up as they go along. Hell, back in the 70's Marvel quickly decided that having Spider-Woman living in London was too much work (and too complicated to have her cross over with other characters).
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by brothersale »

Orbiter wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:44 pm
brothersale wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:55 pm On the whole Batwing was much more interesting in Africa exploring that setting building that section of the world than in Gotham
To much work for the creative team, I figure. They have to tell a story set in an environment that the writer, artist and audience know relatively little about, but that they can't just make up as they go along. Hell, back in the 70's Marvel quickly decided that having Spider-Woman living in London was too much work (and too complicated to have her cross over with other characters).
Well as they made an entire new country for one of the arcs, Tundi, ruled by Abraham Attah aka Lord Battle that doesn't really add up. I think the main reason may have been the drive to link it with modern issues that persist in Africa (ie child soldiers, slave labor etc) to ground it may have rubbed some people (in the DC writing pool) the wrong way by knocking the rose tint off people who believe that africa just suffers from economic and famine problems. Instead it shows alot of the problems are main due to some people being just violent and cruel with the governments not really being able to stop them.
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Mister Freeze

Post by Jabroniville »

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MISTER FREEZE (Doctor Victor Fries, aka Mr. Zero)
Created By:
Bob Kane, David Wood & Sheldon Madoff
First Appearance: Batman #121 (Feb. 1959)
Role: Ice Guy, Tragic Backstory Villain, The Stoic, Rescued Lame Villain
Mental Problems: Obsession With Revenge, Unemotional State
First Appearance: "Heart of Ice"
Voice Actor: Michael Ansara
Finest Moment: His final soliloquoy to his wife
PL 10 (183)
STRENGTH
1/6 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 5 (+5)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+13)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+17) -- Flaws: Limited to Cryogenics
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 12 (+12)
Perception 4 (+7)
Ranged Combat (Cold Gun) 4 (+10)
Technology 8 (+13)
Treatment 7 (+12)
Vehicles 5 (+5)

Advantages:
Chokehold, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Equipment 3 (Trucks, Cold Gear, etc.), Fascinate (Intimidation), Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Cold Gun) 2, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Inventor, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle, Ultimate Cryogenics Skill

Powers:
"Man of Ice" Immunity 4 (Cold, Aging, Disease, Poison) [4]

"Cryogenic Suit" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted- Immune to Cold) [21]
Enhanced Strength 5 (10)
Protection 4 (Extras: Impervious 9) (13)
"Immovable" Enhanced Strength 2 (Flaws: Limited to Resisting Movement) (2)
-- (25 points)

"Cryogenic Gun" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [47]
"Freeze Ray" Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered & Vulnerable/Defenseless & Prone/Paralyzed) (Extras: Ranged, Cumulative, Extra Condition) (40)
Linked to
Weaken Stamina 4 (Extras: Progressive +2, Ranged) (16) -- (18)
  • AE: "Create Ice" Create 6 (Extras: Continuous) (18)
  • AE: "Make Brittle" Weaken Toughness 8 (Extras: Ranged, Affects Objects Only +0) (16)
-- (58 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+1 Damage, DC 17)
Suit +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Freeze Ray +10 (+10 Ranged Affliction & +4 Weaken, DC 20 & 14)
Make Brittle +10 (+8 Ranged Weaken, DC 18)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +4 (+8 Suit, +5 Impervious), Fortitude +8, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Nora Fries)- Victor Fries lost his beloved wife, Nora, when an Evil Businessman (tm) shut down his experiments to save money. Now, his heart cries out for revenge.
Responsibility (Heart of Ice)- With Nora gone, Victor refuses his emotions, and specifes that he has "no more tears to shed". Of course, this means that he is the most emotional of Batman's Rogues.
Vulnerable & Weakness (Heat)- Mr. Freeze will rapidly die if left anywhere above zero degrees Celsius- overheating to death. He requires the use of his suit

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 60--30 / Advantages: 24 / Powers: 72 / Defenses: 19 (183)

Mr. Freeze- Goofy Silver Age Nobody to HOLY SHIT MAJOR VILLAIN:
-It's kind of funny that Mr. Freeze was such a generic nobody that the creators of Batman: The Animated Series were able to completely reinvent him via a tragic origin story, making him a huge star and even affecting a Hollywood movie to recreate that... meanwhile, the comics were never able to maintain any of that heat for themselves. The character debuted in 1959 as "Mr. Zero", and was one of many Joke Villains appearing in the Bat-books (he didn't even have a real name yet)- in 1966, he was renamed for the Batman TV series as "Mr. Freeze", and was played by three different actors- an indication at how little was thought of the character. The comics soon adopted the name switch.

-In any case, Mr. Freeze was a generic mad scientist whose "Ice Gun" had backfired, resulting in him being doused with cryogenic chemicals, and now he was forced to travel about in a deep-freeze costume. A perfectly fine, generic Silver Age Villain. In the early days, Mr. Freeze was just a generic thief- at one point, he tried to turn a love interest into an ageless being like himself, but she betrayed him and was encased in solid ice when her plan backfired. He attempted to freeze all of Gotham in World's Finest, and was stopped by Batman & Superman. At some point before Batman: The Animated Series, he was casually killed off by the Joker- he no longer fit the more grim, "adult" adventures of the Dark Knight.

Freeze is Revamped:
-And then... the Animated Series happened. Paul Dini & Bruce Timm reinvented the character in an absolute masterpiece of television, featuring the character as a mild-mannered scientist who put his beloved wife Nora into cryogenic suspension in hopes of one day curing a fatal illness, only to be maimed, and Nora killed, by the greed of the rich owner of his workplace. Now forced to live in constant sub-zero temperatures himself, Victor Fries has become utterly cold inside and out, insisting he feels no emotions at all. And yet you can tell it's all a put-on- through the masterful voice acting of Michael Ansara, Freeze clearly gives off incredible anger and fury. Though he insists "It would move me to tears... if I had any more tears to shed!", you can see him softly crying as he has "failed" his beloved wife, who now exists only as a turning figure in a musical snowglobe. This episode was AMAZING, and changed all further adaptations of the character- he reappeared in many future episodes, always separate from the other villains- we'd find out that Nora survived and was eventually cured, but Freeze himself could no longer be part of her life. There were diminishing returns on that character, but he was now one of the ultimate "Sympathetic Villains".

The New Freeze:
-So the comic book Mr. Freeze was pretty well changed to match the Animated version, and Arnold Shwarzenegger played the role the same way in the Batman movie that killed the franchise (this did... not help the villain's popularity). Again, Nora is killed and Freeze becomes a vengeance-seeking killer. However, like in B: TAS, writers often didn't know where to go with the character- especially as he was still supposed to be a bad guy. So what was he doing NOW? Ultimately he just became a generic bad guy again- in most of the comics I have featuring him, he's just kind of a nihilist (in the opening pages of Gotham Central, we "get" their world right away as the two ordinary cops are looking for a missing girl and stumble upon MISTER FREEZE, who ultimately freezes and dismembers one of the two men, to teach the other a lesson about how pointless life is), or a generic criminal. In one comic, he uses the Lazarus Pits to resurrect Nora, but apparently hadn't waited for the "ajdusting" needed in the pool's chemicals (?), turning her into the twisted "Lazara". Blaming her husband for her plight, the twisted monster abandons him.

-In the "New 52", he's a more dark figure- he had become obsessed with Nora when she was a patient- a cryogenically-frozen one, mind you, painting Freeze as an obsessive Pygmalion figure. It's Bruce Wayne who tries to suspend the project (in part due to Freeze's obsession), and the doctor throws a chair that breaks a bunch of chemicals, which is what makes him Mr. Freeze. In the other appearance of him I have, he's just there fighting the Birds of Prey once, and interesting new character Starling turns traitor as she reveals an allegiance to him and neither shows up in the book again.

Freeze's Power:
-Mister Freeze is one of the more powerful (PL 10) Bat-foes, by virtue of his Cryo-Gun. It's a very powerful Snare, as well as causing a delayed Weaken effect (Batman got a very bad cold from it, and a henchman almost died). Fries himself isn't a great combatant, merely being PL 8 on Defense, as he (like many other super-strong Bat-foes) is very slow and plodding in combat, making him more of a Jason-like stalking-killer than a quick fighter like Firefly or Two-Face. Of course, his great strength, durability, and Cryogenic Gun make him an almost unstoppable physical threat to Batman, who is decidedly human. Like most other strong Bat-foes, he has a great number of weaknesses, as well. His helmet is a Weak Point on his Armour (which normally makes him very hard for a non-Power Attacking Batman to hurt), and exposure to the normal room temperature outside messes him up BADLY, to the point where he can't even go on. He can also Stunt stuff like Freezing an exploding fire hydrant to let him "Leap" into the air.
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Re: Batwing (Luke Fox)

Post by Skavenger »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:36 am Image
Image
Image

BATWING II (Luke Fox)
Created By:
Jimmy Palmiotti & Justin Gray
First Appearance: Batwing #19 (June 2013)
Role: Spinoff Character
Group Affiliations: None

-So all of a sudden new writers take over the Batwing book, and they decide that longtime supporting character Lucius Fox has had a son all this time. Hey, it's a new continuity- it happens. So he's an MIT grad who grew up with a lot of wealth, but is heroic and turns out was Batman's "first choice" as Batwing, as the book leaves Africa and is now about another Gotham City bat-hero. Yeah, I dunno. He also appears in the popular Batgirl series, dating Barbara Gordon, with neither knowing each other's superheroic identity. I found this kind of hilarious, because even though I LOVED this book, it was incredibly weird how Luke just kinda shows up, reveals a relationship with Barbara, and they're like super lovey-dovey and in a relationship that NEVER MATTERS TO THE BOOK EVER. It's almost transparently obvious they wanted "Woke Points" by having the heroine date a Black man. I mean, it was a book that leaned on that kind of stuff, what with the Ultradiversity Checklist Supporting Cast (Muslim girl in head wrap! Asian person! Trans friend! Indian guy! Overweight girl!). No idea how his actual book was. This is the version that has had the crossover stuff, now appearing in the Batwoman TV show.

-Batwing was smart and rich, and a good fighter. Probably PL 8-ish again.
All reports also indicate that this was the character who was supposed to take over the Batman mantle if 5G had gone through as planned before DC decided to fire a bunch of the people in charge and scrap all the plans. Instead, now the "future" Batman is his brother.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ken wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:46 pm So... what about their precursor, Blackwing?
Aaaaaand I have another character to look up, lol. An Earth-Two successor? Crazy!
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Re: Mister Freeze

Post by Skavenger »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:24 pm Mr. Freeze- Goofy Silver Age Nobody to HOLY SHIT MAJOR VILLAIN:
-It's kind of funny that Mr. Freeze was such a generic nobody that the creators of Batman: The Animated Series were able to completely reinvent him via a tragic origin story, making him a huge star and even affecting a Hollywood movie to recreate that... meanwhile, the comics were never able to maintain any of that heat for themselves. The character debuted in 1959 as "Mr. Zero", and was one of many Joke Villains appearing in the Bat-books (he didn't even have a real name yet)- in 1966, he was renamed for the Batman TV series as "Mr. Freeze", and was played by three different actors- an indication at how little was thought of the character. The comics soon adopted the name switch.

-In any case, Mr. Freeze was a generic mad scientist whose "Ice Gun" had backfired, resulting in him being doused with cryogenic chemicals, and now he was forced to travel about in a deep-freeze costume. A perfectly fine, generic Silver Age Villain. In the early days, Mr. Freeze was just a generic thief- at one point, he tried to turn a love interest into an ageless being like himself, but she betrayed him and was encased in solid ice when her plan backfired. He attempted to freeze all of Gotham in World's Finest, and was stopped by Batman & Superman. At some point before Batman: The Animated Series, he was casually killed off by the Joker- he no longer fit the more grim, "adult" adventures of the Dark Knight.

Freeze is Revamped:
-And then... the Animated Series happened. Paul Dini & Bruce Timm reinvented the character in an absolute masterpiece of television, featuring the character as a mild-mannered scientist who put his beloved wife Nora into cryogenic suspension in hopes of one day curing a fatal illness, only to be maimed, and Nora killed, by the greed of the rich owner of his workplace. Now forced to live in constant sub-zero temperatures himself, Victor Fries has become utterly cold inside and out, insisting he feels no emotions at all. And yet you can tell it's all a put-on- through the masterful voice acting of Michael Ansara, Freeze clearly gives off incredible anger and fury. Though he insists "It would move me to tears... if I had any more tears to shed!", you can see him softly crying as he has "failed" his beloved wife, who now exists only as a turning figure in a musical snowglobe. This episode was AMAZING, and changed all further adaptations of the character- he reappeared in many future episodes, always separate from the other villains- we'd find out that Nora survived and was eventually cured, but Freeze himself could no longer be part of her life. There were diminishing returns on that character, but he was now one of the ultimate "Sympathetic Villains".

The New Freeze:
-So the comic book Mr. Freeze was pretty well changed to match the Animated version, and Arnold Shwarzenegger played the role the same way in the Batman movie that killed the franchise (this did... not help the villain's popularity). Again, Nora is killed and Freeze becomes a vengeance-seeking killer. However, like in B: TAS, writers often didn't know where to go with the character- especially as he was still supposed to be a bad guy. So what was he doing NOW? Ultimately he just became a generic bad guy again- in most of the comics I have featuring him, he's just kind of a nihilist (in the opening pages of Gotham Central, we "get" their world right away as the two ordinary cops are looking for a missing girl and stumble upon MISTER FREEZE, who ultimately freezes and dismembers one of the two men, to teach the other a lesson about how pointless life is), or a generic criminal. In one comic, he uses the Lazarus Pits to resurrect Nora, but apparently hadn't waited for the "ajdusting" needed in the pool's chemicals (?), turning her into the twisted "Lazara". Blaming her husband for her plight, the twisted monster abandons him.

-In the "New 52", he's a more dark figure- he had become obsessed with Nora when she was a patient- a cryogenically-frozen one, mind you, painting Freeze as an obsessive Pygmalion figure. It's Bruce Wayne who tries to suspend the project (in part due to Freeze's obsession), and the doctor throws a chair that breaks a bunch of chemicals, which is what makes him Mr. Freeze. In the other appearance of him I have, he's just there fighting the Birds of Prey once, and interesting new character Starling turns traitor as she reveals an allegiance to him and neither shows up in the book again.

Freeze's Power:
-Mister Freeze is one of the more powerful (PL 10) Bat-foes, by virtue of his Cryo-Gun. It's a very powerful Snare, as well as causing a delayed Weaken effect (Batman got a very bad cold from it, and a henchman almost died). Fries himself isn't a great combatant, merely being PL 8 on Defense, as he (like many other super-strong Bat-foes) is very slow and plodding in combat, making him more of a Jason-like stalking-killer than a quick fighter like Firefly or Two-Face. Of course, his great strength, durability, and Cryogenic Gun make him an almost unstoppable physical threat to Batman, who is decidedly human. Like most other strong Bat-foes, he has a great number of weaknesses, as well. His helmet is a Weak Point on his Armour (which normally makes him very hard for a non-Power Attacking Batman to hurt), and exposure to the normal room temperature outside messes him up BADLY, to the point where he can't even go on. He can also Stunt stuff like Freezing an exploding fire hydrant to let him "Leap" into the air.
There are a couple other things worth noting. One, part of what made Mr. Freeze work so well in the animated series is the fact that his costume (fishbowl helmet, mad science goggles) works really well in the art-deco 40s theme that the Animated Series was sporting the entire time. It was stripped down, simple shapes and colors, with just that touch of exotic detail. Outside of that setting, he really does look clunky and stiff, and artists always have to try to upgrade his suit to make it fit the "modern futuristic" style of the comics.

The other is that Mr. Freeze is hardly the first villain to be successfully reinvented for another time by DC. The difference is that most of the other villains were already successful before they were reinvented, and they just got better. Compare the Catwoman of the 50s to the 70s (where she and Batman are married) and again to the 90s where she's a Robin Hood-style rogue, albeit more selfish, holding her own title. Then there's Lex Luthor transitioning from mad scientist with planetary schemes to diabolical businessman with touches of science.

Freeze just managed to be one of the best examples of taking somebody forgettable and lame and making them into a hyped up character people liked (see also: Catman), even if it did take a live action TV series, comic updates, and a cartoon show to do it over time.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question! Renee Montoya!)

Post by Davies »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:52 pm
Ken wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:46 pm So... what about their precursor, Blackwing?
Aaaaaand I have another character to look up, lol. An Earth-Two successor? Crazy!
He was only in one storyline, so there's not really much to say about him.
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Re: Mister Freeze

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:24 pm MISTER FREEZE (Doctor Victor Fries, aka Mr. Zero)
-It's kind of funny that Mr. Freeze was such a generic nobody that the creators of Batman: The Animated Series were able to completely reinvent him via a tragic origin story, making him a huge star and even affecting a Hollywood movie to recreate that... meanwhile, the comics were never able to maintain any of that heat for themselves. The character debuted in 1959 as "Mr. Zero", and was one of many Joke Villains appearing in the Bat-books (he didn't even have a real name yet)- in 1966, he was renamed for the Batman TV series as "Mr. Freeze", and was played by three different actors- an indication at how little was thought of the character. The comics soon adopted the name switch.
The TV people gave him a real name, or at least a surname: Schimmel. George Sanders, the first of the three actors of course played him German. Otto Preminger was Austro-Hungarian, so he just used his natural accent. Of course, Preminger was a director, not an actor, and boy, was it obvious. And Eli Wallach wasn't much better, and had a worse script. They should have kept Sanders. Of course, the TV people making Mr. Freeze German led to the horrendous casting of Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 1997 "Batman & Robin."

"Schimmel" is a much better civilian name for Mr. Freeze. Avoids the hokey somebody who's name is a homonym of "freeze" has a cyrogenic accident. Plus, it raise the question of why "Dr. Fries" didn't become "Dr. Freeze" instead of Mr. Freeze.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Lady Shiva! Question! Renee Montoya! Mr. Freeze!)

Post by Sidney369 »

Mr. Freeze actually was cured of his condition by the end of his first appearance, and wasn't seen again until Detective #373 in 1968, almost 10 years later. His reappearance probably had to do with the TV show. And the book he was killed in was Robin II: Joker's Wild #1 from 1991 where the J-Man used his joy buzzer to electrocute him.
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