3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

For all of your Play-By-Post games.
User avatar
TekHed
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:13 am
Location: Detroit Megacity

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by TekHed » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:29 pm

Status Update: Busy few days but I will be posting for Hawkangel this weekend, either Saturday night or Sunday which is much more wide open. :)

User avatar
Bladewind
Posts: 2221
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by Bladewind » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:06 am

No worries.
Thorpocalypse wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Building to be comics "accurate" is different than building to run a PC or building something to challenge a group.
Bladewind's 3ed M&M Builds
The Merge Setting document

User avatar
Bladewind
Posts: 2221
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by Bladewind » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:25 am

Hrm.

I'm at a crossroads here.

It was just pointed out to me that I'm stalling in this game. To be fair to myself, I did counter that it does feel like I just got my writing mojo back in my other game so this one might follow. I'm hoping it will.

I do feel that I do have too few players for the story I wanted to tell, and that's mostly on me. I also feel that I might be hanging on because of how much a single player has invested into the creation of their character. Which is not fair to anyone, most of all that player.

Dunno what I want to do with this game at the moment.

How do you guys feel. Intrepid will plod along when prodded, but I know she's doing it more as a favor than anything. She prefers her other character in my other game and feels that I keep using Intrepid as a Plot Exposition Device.

What are your thoughts?
Thorpocalypse wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Building to be comics "accurate" is different than building to run a PC or building something to challenge a group.
Bladewind's 3ed M&M Builds
The Merge Setting document

User avatar
RPGCadre
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by RPGCadre » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:12 am

It's funny you mention this because I was thinking about the game over the weekend. Friday, I was close to sending you a private message asking if the character I made was the right fit and if I should go with something else.

The important thing is if everyone having fun. Me personally, I'm enjoying it, but to be honest I'm getting in my own way. *laughs* I think that I've been too gun-shy on doing anything and every post I make is playing it too safe in fear that I'll be that "nightmare role player." You know, the one you tell horror stories about.

I just want everybody to have fun. From players playing a character they are enjoying to a GM/DM that is having fun with the players and writing stories to toss his characters into. If that isn't happening maybe we can make adjustments or try something new.

User avatar
Bladewind
Posts: 2221
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by Bladewind » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:45 pm

Good points.

Your character is a good fit and I’ve done a bunch of soft reboots.

Currently waiting on Tekhed’s input.
Thorpocalypse wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Building to be comics "accurate" is different than building to run a PC or building something to challenge a group.
Bladewind's 3ed M&M Builds
The Merge Setting document

User avatar
TekHed
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:13 am
Location: Detroit Megacity

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by TekHed » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:08 pm

Not sure what I should say?

Obviously I'm head over heels in love with my character. If I get to play him in an X-Men game or a LSH game doesn't really matter to me. My impression was you are a huge LSH fan and that this game was a story you were super excited to tell. Is that not the case?

I think it goes without saying that a GM not excited about their own story is the end of that story. The whole point is fun and entertainment. The other side is the GM has to enjoy the player characters, maybe not in the same attached way as the player, but since the PCs are essentially the protagonist that the GM's story ends up being about there has to be some level of engagement and enthusiasm there as well. The GM should feel inspired by the characters and that inspiration should feed into the creativity of shaping the story. Some of the best moments I've experienced in gaming are from that emergent quality unique to the medium where the GM throws out a scenario and then the player does something that is a surprise and delight to the GM such that the whole story shifts slightly in response. This happened to me in a DnD game recently where my character was in a duel with his longtime rival frenemy. We were well matched and my character lost the duel ultimately because I rolled not so great and he made a great roll at the right moment. The GM had my rival gloating but then ultimately felt hollow by their victory, and when I suddenly had the inspiration to have my character extend an olive branch in defeat and invite my rival to join us it was the most pleasing surprise to the GM. he did not see it coming and it was born from a moment of spontaneous inspiration that welled forth from my own writing. I'm probably not doing it justice with this rote description but the whole thing was such a perfect example of the passionate emergent stories possible in this medium you can't find anywhere else.

On one hand, it shouldn't feel like a chore, but being practical sometimes the muse waxes and wanes and sometimes posting IS a chore in the sense that one owes a post to move things forward. Kind of like a long term relationship, where there are moments both magical and mundane but just because it's not always exploding fireworks doesn't mean there isn't a shared love there.

So...I still don't have any answers for you. Hawkangel is awesome. I have those other games I thought you might be inspired to rescue at some point (the MCU villain one with Knightmare, and the multi-era comic inspired one), but it ultimately comes down to the inspiration and collaboration. Sometimes what seems like an amazing story idea or character falls flat once executed, it's the nature of the creative process.

I suppose I'd like to hear more from you about why you're feeling stuck BW?

You said you wanted more PCs for this story. IMHO anything over 4 is really hard on PbP. 3 can be much more agile and 5 is pushing the limit in my considerable experience.

User avatar
Bladewind
Posts: 2221
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by Bladewind » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:14 pm

Thanks for the responses.
TekHed wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:08 pm
Obviously I'm head over heels in love with my character. If I get to play him in an X-Men game or a LSH game doesn't really matter to me. My impression was you are a huge LSH fan and that this game was a story you were super excited to tell. Is that not the case?
Oh, it's the case. :)
Kind of like a long term relationship, where there are moments both magical and mundane but just because it's not always exploding fireworks doesn't mean there isn't a shared love there.
This is a very good point. And it's pretty much the reason I'm still hanging on.
I suppose I'd like to hear more from you about why you're feeling stuck BW?
I personally think it has to do with the soft boots. I wasn't entirely clear to my original batch of PCs of the direction and scope, so that dragged. Followed by the fact that in my desire to tell an epic story resulted in uber powerful characters (which IS whay I wanted).

So we have the three of you plus Intrepid 2 - and my failing there is using that character as plot exposition, which isn't really a bad thing - a good squad to be sure.

The other issue is well pointed out to me that this story might not be well told in PbP.

An observation via PM, that I agree with after being "confronted" with:
Though, I think maybe the playing with time and dimensions as a major plot element might be a tad grandiose for a forum game. Probably better for a tabletop given how involving something like that is.

I mean, without having time to establish our characters in their own native environment, taking them out of it into a time travelling, dimension hopping adventure makes it difficult to really immerse. For this game it seemed to just be a regular thing, no big deal, and then once we hit the soft reboot, we backpedaled on that into a recon mission into Apokolips, which on a surface level seems more mundane, but it feels like skipping the game and going to the final level. It's been jarring.
I am really torn. I don't think its fair to keep hanging on. Look at the difference in my other game - I'm posting regularly there again, even though that hit a snag for a bit too.
Thorpocalypse wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Building to be comics "accurate" is different than building to run a PC or building something to challenge a group.
Bladewind's 3ed M&M Builds
The Merge Setting document

EpicEclipse
Posts: 1928
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by EpicEclipse » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:27 pm

Here's my view on it. The game has had a number of characters come and go and at the point of the soft reboot after Dragonmage bowed out, none of our characters are from the original group. We have no connection at all to what happened at the start of the game. At that point we may as well have started in a new campaign, since none of our characters have the investment that the originals would have had.

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of faith in Bladewind, but I feel this game in particular has just suffered too many setbacks and it would be of greater interest to just start up an entirely new game, maybe with a more down to earth start up before launching into the territory of an epic story.

Side benefit of starting something new is not having the stigma of trying to recruit mid-game. I agree about group size, though presently being in two larger cast games, I can certainly see that they can work as long as everyone is invested. Investment is really important because that is what keeps a game rolling. But right now, we really only have 3 players. Jewel admitted she only checks in when BW reminds her, which shows a lack of personal Investment, and like BW said, that may be due to using Intrepid 2 as a exposition device. Not everyone cares for being in that role.

So yeah, my stance would be to shut it down, salvage the salvageable, and do a new game. I love me some X-Men and Teen Titans/Young Justice as well.

User avatar
Bladewind
Posts: 2221
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by Bladewind » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:57 pm

EpicEclipse wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:27 pm
So yeah, my stance would be to shut it down, salvage the salvageable, and do a new game. I love me some X-Men and Teen Titans/Young Justice as well.
I'm leaning there. Have to think about starting a new game though.
One thing is for sure. It won't have the same point allotment !
Thorpocalypse wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Building to be comics "accurate" is different than building to run a PC or building something to challenge a group.
Bladewind's 3ed M&M Builds
The Merge Setting document

EpicEclipse
Posts: 1928
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by EpicEclipse » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:30 am

I struggled to use all the points for both Maverick and Dreamer >_<

User avatar
TekHed
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:13 am
Location: Detroit Megacity

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by TekHed » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:01 am

I tend to be fairly loathe to depower characters in this system since I'll end up having to cut things I'm attached to. In Hawkangel's case the extra points really helped me realize my vision for the character fully whereas the former PL 9 version felt starved for points and incomplete.

User avatar
Bladewind
Posts: 2221
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by Bladewind » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:09 am

I know. :oops: :|
Thorpocalypse wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Building to be comics "accurate" is different than building to run a PC or building something to challenge a group.
Bladewind's 3ed M&M Builds
The Merge Setting document

EpicEclipse
Posts: 1928
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by EpicEclipse » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:31 am

TekHed wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:01 am
I tend to be fairly loathe to depower characters in this system since I'll end up having to cut things I'm attached to. In Hawkangel's case the extra points really helped me realize my vision for the character fully whereas the former PL 9 version felt starved for points and incomplete.
Eh.... you could cut out a lot and keep the same feel for the character. Your Wing array attacks for example are kind of over the top.

Razor Feathers: You don't need to have a ranged damage linked to weaken effect with multiattack on both. Your just flinging barrages of razor feathers. Why would they create a lasting weakened toughness effect?
Feather Flechettes: Targeted area was removed from 3E. The more proper way to build this would be Move Object Linked to Ranged Damage with the Limit on Move Object (I actually like that the Move Object doesn't even work unless the target takes damage).
Shielding Wings: Immunity to Parry is superfluous with Deflect. Deflect will cover basically everything, so you can remove that immunity entirely. Reflect and Redirect seems a little excessive as well. How does he precisely attack someone else with an incoming attack based on the description of what he is doing? (For example, Spiderman stunts Deflect, using his webbing to catch attacks. He can Reflect and Redirect by catching and swinging the attack around to hit someone else. Hawkangel has nothing like this based on using his wings as giant shields.)

Anti-Magic Pulse, Angel and Sarcophogus are the kind of powers better handled as stunts, so can save a few more points there. (Remember, a power stunt lasts until it's duration expires. So for something like Sarcophogus, it lasts until he releases it.)

Wings Retracted: Neat little trick you can do here, don't put Persistent on all of your Regeneration. It creates a neat effect where you get full Regeneration, but any incurable (which is stupidly rare to see) damage is still regenerated, just slower.
Wings Extended: You don't need that many ranks of Flight and could also put Winged on all/most of them, rather than less than half.

Doing that stuff would save you a ton of points without adversely affecting the feel of the character. No, his razor feathers aren't as potent, but I honestly see no reason they need to be, or are justified as being any more than a penetrating ranged damage. It's just excessive.

I think you are misplacing your vision a little bit as wanting an extremely potent character. You can still achieve a vision without quite as much over the top "oomph" that Hawkangel has in this iteration. Think of it like the different between a regular version and an "ultimate" version. This current iteration would be the Ultimate version, excessively powered up, but he doesn't need all of that to be a fully realized vision of a winged Thanagarian half-breed hero with Nth metal augments.

For the record, I think the character is really cool, so please don't think I'm just sh***ing on it. I actually really like how you put some of his powers together. I'm just pointing out you have a LOT of excess in there that could be cut out without making him any less cool of a character.
Last edited by EpicEclipse on Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RPGCadre
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by RPGCadre » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:33 am

I'm leaning there. Have to think about starting a new game though.
One thing is for sure. It won't have the same point allotment !
Do what you feel is right. I trust you as a GM and have faith in whatever direction you go. Whatever choice you make I'm still here and I am still I am all in for your game. I didn't mind the Darkseid story, but I think that's me being bias. When I see characters like Darkseid, it puts me in that mindset that a JLA epic story is about to take place. After reading what Tekhead and Epic wrote I can see their point of view. It makes sense.

If you do change it up what are you looking for? I mean in a story or theme? Are we going for Avenger/JLA like heroes with a more character driven story or stories? Are we going for non stop action with big fights, big guns, and explosions? Or are we going for something with a huge emphasis on the characters. Like the TV show/comic Powers for example.

User avatar
TekHed
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:13 am
Location: Detroit Megacity

Re: 3e OOC - LSH - Dawnfire Rising

Post by TekHed » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:48 pm

EpicEclipse wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:31 am
TekHed wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:01 am
I tend to be fairly loathe to depower characters in this system since I'll end up having to cut things I'm attached to. In Hawkangel's case the extra points really helped me realize my vision for the character fully whereas the former PL 9 version felt starved for points and incomplete.
Eh.... you could cut out a lot and keep the same feel for the character. Your Wing array attacks for example are kind of over the top.

Razor Feathers: You don't need to have a ranged damage linked to weaken effect with multiattack on both. Your just flinging barrages of razor feathers. Why would they create a lasting weakened toughness effect?
Feather Flechettes: Targeted area was removed from 3E. The more proper way to build this would be Move Object Linked to Ranged Damage with the Limit on Move Object (I actually like that the Move Object doesn't even work unless the target takes damage).
Shielding Wings: Immunity to Parry is superfluous with Deflect. Deflect will cover basically everything, so you can remove that immunity entirely. Reflect and Redirect seems a little excessive as well. How does he precisely attack someone else with an incoming attack based on the description of what he is doing? (For example, Spiderman stunts Deflect, using his webbing to catch attacks. He can Reflect and Redirect by catching and swinging the attack around to hit someone else. Hawkangel has nothing like this based on using his wings as giant shields.)

Anti-Magic Pulse, Angel and Sarcophogus are the kind of powers better handled as stunts, so can save a few more points there. (Remember, a power stunt lasts until it's duration expires. So for something like Sarcophogus, it lasts until he releases it.)

Wings Retracted: Neat little trick you can do here, don't put Persistent on all of your Regeneration. It creates a neat effect where you get full Regeneration, but any incurable (which is stupidly rare to see) damage is still regenerated, just slower.
Wings Extended: You don't need that many ranks of Flight and could also put Winged on all/most of them, rather than less than half.

Doing that stuff would save you a ton of points without adversely affecting the feel of the character. No, his razor feathers aren't as potent, but I honestly see no reason they need to be, or are justified as being any more than a penetrating ranged damage. It's just excessive.

I think you are misplacing your vision a little bit as wanting an extremely potent character. You can still achieve a vision without quite as much over the top "oomph" that Hawkangel has in this iteration. Think of it like the different between a regular version and an "ultimate" version. This current iteration would be the Ultimate version, excessively powered up, but he doesn't need all of that to be a fully realized vision of a winged Thanagarian half-breed hero with Nth metal augments.

For the record, I think the character is really cool, so please don't think I'm just sh***ing on it. I actually really like how you put some of his powers together. I'm just pointing out you have a LOT of excess in there that could be cut out without making him any less cool of a character.
Don't tell me what is excess. :x

I've actually gotten very bored of barebones characters in this system. The actual mechanics of play get repetitive real quick. This is how I wanted the character to be from the start thank you very much. Great. Now I'm really annoyed. :evil:

Post Reply