Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by Ares » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:25 am

greycrusader wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:37 am
I'd love to see a modern Pulp-homage author do a tale where Doc Savage, the Shadow, the Spider, Operator No. 5, the Domino Lady, Invisible Scarlet O'Neil, et al take on their Axis counterparts; there were indeed actual German and Italian pulps, and pre-Imperial Japan sported several pulp-style serialized comics as well. Now, while the characters featured therein reflected their respective cultural prejudices even in the pre-Fascist days, their protagonists and stories took a seriously evil bent with the rise of the Nazis and Nippon militarists.

The most infamous example is Sun Koh the Atlantean. Essentially a Doc Savage analogue in abilities and appearance, his "adventures" turned from thwarting occult menaces and mad scientists to battling "Zionist" conspiracies against the Reich, conquering (or annihilating) truculent natives of hidden lands to steal their resources, and obtaining mystic treasures for use by Der Vateland. Thankfully, pulps were soon deemed irrelevant to the war effort and an unnecessary use of paper, so the Axis anti-heroes vanished into obscurity for the most part.

There HAVE been modern-day Sun Koh books, written with him as the main character but clearly as a villain protagonist. Surprised no one's done a crossover yet.

All my best.
There have been a few official Pulp hero crossovers in the books. Doc Savage and the Shadow have had at least two, and there was a Spider/Operator 5 crossover. But the idea of them fighting their own Legion of Doom would be awesome. We just need to somehow get Fu Manchu, John Sunlight and a few others in there.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by greycrusader » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:13 am

Oddly, Fu Manchu would likely be the heroes ally in a battle against pulp-era Axis villains-the "Devil Doctor" would certainly not appreciate the depredations of Imperial Japan (though he would view an alliance as an opportunity to strengthen his own control over China); the same holds true for the pulp's greatest female super-villain, the Golden Amazon, whose goal of a world-wide matriarchy would set her against the Nazis and Fascists.

All my best.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by Ares » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:06 am

And for a little bit of self-indulgent fun, something I posted over on RPG.net:


Dr. Henrey Armitage fidgeted slightly in his chair. It wasn't that the chair was uncomfortable, it and the office he was in had been designed for the comfort of those seeking help from the man that owned it. It was the man himself that made Dr. Armitage uncomfortable.

The man in question was massive. Even behind the large table that separated him and Armitage, he seemed to fill the room. It wasn't just his height or his musculature, those these were both considerable. The man seemed to be a statue of bronze that had been molded into the perfect visage of an Olympian god, muscles standing out like smooth bundles of metallic cable barely contained by bronze skin. It was instead the sheer presence of the man, the combination of power and intelligence that seemed to radiate off of him, focused through the most unique eyes Dr. Armitage had ever seen. They seemed to be pools of black wherein flakes of gold constantly swirled. They were very disconcerting.

Doc Savage, the Man of Bronze, spoke. His voice was calm, well modulated, and not loud so much as powerful. As if every word carried the power to shape human destiny. "My associates said you wished to speak to me, and that you were quite insistant that it was a matter of global importance."

Without a word, Dr. Armitage reached into the leather travel bag besides him and placed its contents onto the table in front of the Bronze Man.

It was an idol of a strange color, changing from ivory white to a faint green depending on how the light hit it. The figure of the idol seemed to be that of a hunched over demon, roughly humanoid in shape, though with a flabby belly and clawed hands and fingers. It had long, dragon like wings draped behind it, and its face resembled nothing so much as an octopus, with a mass of wriggling tentacles where its mouth should be.

From nowhere, a strange noise was heard. It carried about the room like the song of an exotic bird, traveling along the scales. Those that knew the Bronze Man would recognize the sound as the trilling he'd made when his emotions were raised, as Doc Savage had schooled himself to never show his emotions on his face. Those familiar with the noise would have been surprised by the tone of this particular trill, as it denoted surprise, tinged with what might be fear.

"You know what this is." Dr. Armitage said. It was not a question.

"I know who that is." The Bronze Man said with a small nod.

Dr. Armitage nodded in reply and placed the idol back in its travel case. "An Inspector Legrasse brought this idol to my attention. Though he had broken up the original cult that he had acquired that idol from, recently there have been . . . incidents that have aroused his suspicion that something else has been put in motion.

"Such as?"

"Legrasse wasn't able to tell me. Shortly after contacting me, I learned that he had died, supposedly of a heart attack. A week later, a package arrived by mail that contained the idol and what notes he'd been able to gather. To make sense of them, I contacted two sometime associates of mine. Randolph Carter and Detective Jack Walters both have . . . unique means of gathering information. Between their resources and Jack's detective skills, we were able to glean a little of what is happening. It seems that certain parties are unearthing locations important to the cults of the Old Ones. They are trying to find R'lyeh and places like it. For what ultimate purpose, I do not know. But it cannot be good."

"These are bold claims, Dr. Armitage. Though the idol lends some credence to your story, I have had other people attempt to drag me into investigations of these beings and places, nearly all of which have been wild goose chases. What evidence do you have that this is not one such instance?"

Dr. Armitage said two simple words. "Sun Koh."

Doc's trilling returned, if possible even sharper than before. The Bronze Man was very familiar with the Nazi Ubermensch that had been created to be his opposite number. "You have proof that Sun Koh is back of all this?"

"I have testimony from Carter and Walters, both of whom want to help further. But it isn't right to say that Sun Koh is truly behind this. Rather, he was simply the one who gather this . . . this . . . Council of Conquest together."

"Who else is in this Council that you know of?"

"John Sunlight. Fu Manchu. Shiwan Khan. Thaddeus Sivana. Johann Schmidt. Queen La. The Cobra. Munro. Heinrich von Helsingard. Grigori Rasputin. There are likely others, if the screams poor Carter gave are any indication. His connection to the Council was abruptly terminated, and we left his home as quickly as we could. Less than an hour after our departure, his home was ransacked and burnt to the ground. The three of us came here directly after."

Without another word, Doc Savage reached down into one drawer of his desk, pulling out a type of phone unlike anything Armitage had ever seen. Instead of a dial, there were simply a series of buttons, each of which had a name beside it. The list included:
  • L. Cranston
  • R. Wentworth
  • B. Reid
  • J. Clayton
  • B. Batson
  • Dr. I. Jones
  • C. Secord
  • S. Rogers
  • Mandrake
  • K. Walker
  • H. Boy
  • Dr. A. R. Tesla
  • D. Prince
  • Dr. J. Wayne
  • M. Drake
  • D. Adams
"You believe me then?" Dr. Armitage asked, a note of hope in his voice.

Picking up the receiver, the Bronze Man replied, "I do."

Armitage let out a sigh of profound relieve. He cocked a curious eyebrow towards the phone and asked, "Then who are you calling?"

Doc Savage pressed the top most button, and even his carefully modulated tone could not hide the grim resolved of his reply. "Everyone."

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by greycrusader » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 am

Very nicely done! I commend your writing ability-that is JUST the kind of intro a Pulp Fiction tale deserves! And you captured the proper style of the era without being too hammy or stilted, which is a pit-fall for modern writers aping the 1930s/1940s pulps. I admit resorting to google to track down a few of the contacts on Doc Savage's retro-future speed dial. I've never read Atomic Robo, and forgot all about Joan (Miss Victory) Wayne (didn't AC Comics end up becoming some sort of erotica/fetish comics line?) entirely. But I still am blanking on a couple-Munro? The Cobra (which one? There were several super-criminals who went by that nom de guerre); and is H. Boy meant to be Hellboy? The time line would be a bit off, since canonically the big red guy didn't arrive till near the end of WW II, and was literally a hell-BOY when he first appeared.

I was a little surprised with the inclusion of Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman (though the "official" Wold-Newton Universe site does consider Princess Diana to be part of the canon), especially as they really tip the power levels. But a WW who adhered most closely to the Linda Carter TV series version wouldn't be a problem, though my preference has always been for the Golden Age Wonder Woman to be canonically Hyppolyta; this was one of John Byrne's last good ideas, though I wish he'd have dropped the time travel angle-Diana's mom was already established as being around during WWII after all. And if Captain Marvel is the version from the classic black and white movie serial, Billy Batson's alter-ego totally fits the setting.

All my best.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by Ares » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:29 am

greycrusader wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 am
Very nicely done! I commend your writing ability-that is JUST the kind of intro a Pulp Fiction tale deserves! And you captured the proper style of the era without being too hammy or stilted, which is a pit-fall for modern writers aping the 1930s/1940s pulps.
Thanks! I consider myself something of an amateur writer and would love to do something professional at some point, but one thing at a time. It helps that I read and listen to a lot of old pulp stuff, as well as some of the better takes on the classics. Mostly it's the classic Spider series, Howard's Conan, a lot of Lovecraft, and of course the classic Doc Savage stuff. Will Murray has written a lot of modern Doc Savage works that I highly recommend, they're all a ton of fun. Radio Archives has a lot of those books on audiobook, and they make for great listens.
I admit resorting to google to track down a few of the contacts on Doc Savage's retro-future speed dial.
Heh, don't feel bad. The thread I introduced this on over on RPG.net has a guy who is a Pulp guru and even he got a couple wrong.
I've never read Atomic Robo,
I'd recommend it, overall it's good stuff. The best way I could describe it would be a Weird Science version of Hellboy, starring a sentient robot built by Tesla.
and forgot all about Joan (Miss Victory) Wayne (didn't AC Comics end up becoming some sort of erotica/fetish comics line?) entirely.
AC Comics is . . . yeah, its kind of weird. I have a backlog of their stuff, and in some ways a lot of it feels like classic comics stuff, but they also use a lot of "good girl" art with some cheesecake as well. It never quite got to the level of, say, Empowered or Don't Meddle With My Daughter, but it could get very blantant with how cheeky the fanservice was at times. In any case, the AC Comic is the one I'd be using, given she was actually a fairly compelling and powerful character.
But I still am blanking on a couple-Munro?
Munro was an enemy of the Spider, a master of disguise notable for being one of the few people the Spider had to fight more than once, since most fights with the Spider tended to end permanently and poorly for the villain. Though really, going that route I should have made the Spider's nemesis be the Living Pharaoh, with Munro being an agent of the Council of Conquest.
The Cobra (which one? There were several super-criminals who went by that nom de guerre);
The Cobra is Luciphor, the arch-villain of Mandrake the Magician.
and is H. Boy meant to be Hellboy? The time line would be a bit off, since canonically the big red guy didn't arrive till near the end of WW II, and was literally a hell-BOY when he first appeared.
Yeah, I threw Hellboy in there as an example of a fun modern pulp character, but it was pointed out later that it wouldn't really work. This would have to be set during World War II at the latest, and Hellboy was brought into existence during the later years of said war.

I'd have to switch the timeline up a bit to where Rasputin's summons would happen a lot earlier, say around 1920, so that he's be in his 20s when the adventure starts. I just kind of like the idea of two relatively young versions of Hellboy and Atomic Robo working together and kind of geeking out over this whole situation.
I was a little surprised with the inclusion of Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman (though the "official" Wold-Newton Universe site does consider Princess Diana to be part of the canon), especially as they really tip the power levels. But a WW who adhered most closely to the Linda Carter TV series version wouldn't be a problem, though my preference has always been for the Golden Age Wonder Woman to be canonically Hyppolyta; this was one of John Byrne's last good ideas, though I wish he'd have dropped the time travel angle-Diana's mom was already established as being around during WWII after all. And if Captain Marvel is the version from the classic black and white movie serial, Billy Batson's alter-ego totally fits the setting.
I'll admit that my decision to throw Diana and Cap in there was a matter of personal preference, given I'm passing over Batman and Superman for them. Still, the ideas I've kind of got in mind would keep the relative powerlevels from getting too out of control. This Diana would be a mix of the classic Golden Age WW, Linda Carter and Gal Gadot, while this Captain Marvel would indeed borrow a lot from the classic Adventures of Captain Marvel film serial (which was another reason I went with Cap over Clark). Plus I can have fun with a few things, like Steve Rogers being the blonde haired Steve that lands on Diana's island.

And if I ever did do this, I'd make it expand out even further than the initial premise, involving space and time travel to rope in Conan, the Lone Ranger, John Carter of Mars, Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Prince Valiant and a few others.

I'm also working on a group photo for the team using those Ronnie Thunderbolts edits:

Image
Link to larger image

I decided to also throw T'Chaka in there as well, so that between him, Lothar, Ram Singh, and Kato we've actually got a little ethnic diversity even back then.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by RUSCHE » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:33 pm

Any possibility of throwing Namor in the mix? Love what your doing! This looks great.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by Ares » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:34 pm

And updated the group photo for that pulp crossover.

Image

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by Ares » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:00 pm

RUSCHE wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:33 pm
Any possibility of throwing Namor in the mix? Love what your doing! This looks great.
Thanks! As for Namor, I might be tempted to throw him in, but if so, he'd definitely be an antagonist rather than a hero.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by FuzzyBoots » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:23 pm

For more pulp fun (and a fair amount of deconstruction), Razzle Dazzle is an interesting read (there's three parts, which you can find linked from the wiki entry). All of the serial numbers are filed off, but it's basically the story of a villain's multiple schemes across pulp history. :)

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by RUSCHE » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:27 pm

Ares wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:00 pm
RUSCHE wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:33 pm
Any possibility of throwing Namor in the mix? Love what your doing! This looks great.
Thanks! As for Namor, I might be tempted to throw him in, but if so, he'd definitely be an antagonist rather than a hero.
Off the wall question, what would you think about Doc Savage having something to do with Steve Rogers and Project Rebirth? With his travels, intellectual abilities he could have helped or inspired the project. He would most likely not wanted seen for military use though. Perhaps stolen in someway. Just curious. Also Namor would be a perfect adversary.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by Ares » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:59 pm

RUSCHE wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:27 pm
Ares wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:00 pm
RUSCHE wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:33 pm
Any possibility of throwing Namor in the mix? Love what your doing! This looks great.
Thanks! As for Namor, I might be tempted to throw him in, but if so, he'd definitely be an antagonist rather than a hero.
Off the wall question, what would you think about Doc Savage having something to do with Steve Rogers and Project Rebirth? With his travels, intellectual abilities he could have helped or inspired the project. He would most likely not wanted seen for military use though. Perhaps stolen in someway. Just curious.
I'd say probably not. While Doc was the world authority on medicine, I doubt he would be directly involved in Project Rebirth. Doc is a patriot and genuinely wants to create a better world, but would also see a Super Soldier Serum's potential for abuse. The government might control who does and does not receive the serum, it could lead to a superhuman arms race, etc. If Doc ever got his hands on a sample of the serum, he'd likely store it in his Fortress of Solitude until he could figure out how to mass produce it and ensure that everyone could benefit from it.

On the other hand, I could see Sun Koh, Doc's literal Nazi equivalent, being a product of the Super Soldier Serum, either an early variant of it. Lacking the time and resources to create a "natural" Doc Savage, such a serum might have been used to give Koh his physical abilities.
Also Namor would be a perfect adversary.
Indeed. Expect to see him brawl with the super strong heroes. The original Human Torch might also show up, under the Council's control.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by RUSCHE » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:04 pm

Ares wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:59 pm
RUSCHE wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:27 pm
Ares wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:00 pm


Thanks! As for Namor, I might be tempted to throw him in, but if so, he'd definitely be an antagonist rather than a hero.
Off the wall question, what would you think about Doc Savage having something to do with Steve Rogers and Project Rebirth? With his travels, intellectual abilities he could have helped or inspired the project. He would most likely not wanted seen for military use though. Perhaps stolen in someway. Just curious.
I'd say probably not. While Doc was the world authority on medicine, I doubt he would be directly involved in Project Rebirth. Doc is a patriot and genuinely wants to create a better world, but would also see a Super Soldier Serum's potential for abuse. The government might control who does and does not receive the serum, it could lead to a superhuman arms race, etc. If Doc ever got his hands on a sample of the serum, he'd likely store it in his Fortress of Solitude until he could figure out how to mass produce it and ensure that everyone could benefit from it.

On the other hand, I could see Sun Koh, Doc's literal Nazi equivalent, being a product of the Super Soldier Serum, either an early variant of it. Lacking the time and resources to create a "natural" Doc Savage, such a serum might have been used to give Koh his physical abilities.
Also Namor would be a perfect adversary.
Indeed. Expect to see him brawl with the super strong heroes. The original Human Torch might also show up, under the Council's control.
Cannot wait to see what you have, it just sounds fun and about time Heroes are Heroes and Bad guys are well Bad.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by greycrusader » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:44 am

Ares wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:59 pm
RUSCHE wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:27 pm
Ares wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:00 pm


Thanks! As for Namor, I might be tempted to throw him in, but if so, he'd definitely be an antagonist rather than a hero.
Off the wall question, what would you think about Doc Savage having something to do with Steve Rogers and Project Rebirth? With his travels, intellectual abilities he could have helped or inspired the project. He would most likely not wanted seen for military use though. Perhaps stolen in someway. Just curious.
I'd say probably not. While Doc was the world authority on medicine, I doubt he would be directly involved in Project Rebirth. Doc is a patriot and genuinely wants to create a better world, but would also see a Super Soldier Serum's potential for abuse. The government might control who does and does not receive the serum, it could lead to a superhuman arms race, etc. If Doc ever got his hands on a sample of the serum, he'd likely store it in his Fortress of Solitude until he could figure out how to mass produce it and ensure that everyone could benefit from it.

On the other hand, I could see Sun Koh, Doc's literal Nazi equivalent, being a product of the Super Soldier Serum, either an early variant of it. Lacking the time and resources to create a "natural" Doc Savage, such a serum might have been used to give Koh his physical abilities.
Also Namor would be a perfect adversary.
Indeed. Expect to see him brawl with the super strong heroes. The original Human Torch might also show up, under the Council's control.
In the original German pulps, Sun Koh is an Atlantean, a member of the "original" Aryan race, and his physical perfection is the result of his "pure" heritage (which in-story I'd simply ascribe to a Nazi propaganda effort as an explanation); Sun Koh's expertise is in alchemy and various occult practices, so for purposes of the tale I'd attribute his physical prowess and extended life to various elixirs and "dark practices", so I wouldn't put connections to the Devil Doctor, Ayesha, or Queen La out of the question.

Other potential adversaries for the stalwart heroes: Dick Fumente, a fascist Italian comic strip character, basically a huge, extraordinarily tough boxer, strongman, and treasure hunter; Dog-Soldier, likewise from pre-WW II Japanese comics, originally a semi-bumbling protagonist, he was re-written into the perfect Nippon solider as Imperial Japan rose to power; in-story, he could be the creation of a younger version of Madame Atomos, already a brilliant "mad" scientist, though less irrationally hateful in the time before Hiroshima and Nagasaki; Minx, a German counterpart to Mandrake, with powers of hypnosis, illusion casting, and astral projection; Amok, the Italian answer to the Phantom Who Walks, an honorable man who simply fights on the side of his native country; Harry Flashman, notorious British scoundrel and turncoat, his life extended through a stolen immortality serum and posing as his own grand-son.

All my best.

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Re: Pulse Pounding Adventures - Pulp and Film Serial Discussion

Post by Ares » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:16 am

greycrusader wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:44 am
In the original German pulps, Sun Koh is an Atlantean, a member of the "original" Aryan race, and his physical perfection is the result of his "pure" heritage (which in-story I'd simply ascribe to a Nazi propaganda effort as an explanation); Sun Koh's expertise is in alchemy and various occult practices, so for purposes of the tale I'd attribute his physical prowess and extended life to various elixirs and "dark practices", so I wouldn't put connections to the Devil Doctor, Ayesha, or Queen La out of the question.
Huh. I was aware of Sun Koh as the literal Nazi equivalent of Doc Savage, but I didn't know the details. I was planning to do a lot of research for this, but this not only helps a lot, it generates a lot of ideas. In a setting with Namor's Atlantis and R'lyeh, this creates some interesting possibilities. The alchemy/occult angle makes him a perfect equal/opposite for Doc.
Other potential adversaries for the stalwart heroes: Dick Fumente, a fascist Italian comic strip character, basically a huge, extraordinarily tough boxer, strongman, and treasure hunter; Dog-Soldier, likewise from pre-WW II Japanese comics, originally a semi-bumbling protagonist, he was re-written into the perfect Nippon solider as Imperial Japan rose to power; in-story, he could be the creation of a younger version of Madame Atomos, already a brilliant "mad" scientist, though less irrationally hateful in the time before Hiroshima and Nagasaki; Minx, a German counterpart to Mandrake, with powers of hypnosis, illusion casting, and astral projection; Amok, the Italian answer to the Phantom Who Walks, an honorable man who simply fights on the side of his native country; Harry Flashman, notorious British scoundrel and turncoat, his life extended through a stolen immortality serum and posing as his own grand-son.

All my best.
Very cool. While there's a Council of Conquest made up of the leaders, there's obviously going to be plenty of lesser but still named-level opposition. These guys definitely warrant some research, and sound like some excellent antagonists. You can also expect the team up of similarly themed villains, like Capt. Nazi, Master Man and Panzer (a Miss Victory Nazi female powerhouse) working together. And naturally, you can expect a lot of pre-existing relationships. T'Chaka, Tarzan and the Phantom are all old allies, while T'Chaka actually has some issues with Lothar and Mandrake. Do not expect everyone to get along.


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