Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

The place to talk about your favorite movies, tv series, cartoons, music and theater.
Post Reply
Voltron64
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:44 am
Location: Tucson, AZ

Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Voltron64 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:29 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83apjSbVV-o

I'm looking forward to this.

Thorpocalypse
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Thorpocalypse » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:33 am

I can't wait. I have a Pavlovian response to the original theme, the Imperial March, Vader's breathing and the light saber sound. I'm apparently going to have to add Leia's theme to the list. :)
Me fail English? That's unpossible. - Ralph Wiggum

User avatar
Bladewind
Posts: 2539
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Bladewind » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:43 am

I dunno. I'm psyched, the title has me intrigued... but... Rey vs a Tie interceptor was a little much. I remember how much Luke had to struggle to learn to lift his lightsaber, couldn't lift his X-Wing and beat a speeder bike as much by chance as skill... and then Rey lifts rocks like they're nothing and is flipping to take out Ties...
Thorpocalypse wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 pm
Building to be comics "accurate" is different than building to run a PC or building something to challenge a group.
Bladewind's 3ed M&M Builds
The Merge Setting document

User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Ares » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:27 am

Bladewind wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:43 am
I dunno. I'm psyched, the title has me intrigued... but... Rey vs a Tie interceptor was a little much. I remember how much Luke had to struggle to learn to lift his lightsaber, couldn't lift his X-Wing and beat a speeder bike as much by chance as skill... and then Rey lifts rocks like they're nothing and is flipping to take out Ties...
It's actually pretty astounding how much work Luke had to do to earn his abilities in the original trilogy, and how little Rey does in turn. In "A New Hope", Luke received training from Obi-Wan, was actually instructed on how to open his senses to the Force, and learns to let the Force guide him both for defense (deflecting the training drone's stun blasts) and offense (helping him make the Death Star shot).

In "Empire Strikes Back", set several months, if not a year or more later, Luke had only just learned to call his lightsaber to him on his own, showing he'd finally managed to use the Force to influence the material world. This actually gets the Emperor's attention, since it's after this that he calls up Vader and mentions having sensed a disturbance in the Force and how Luke's power is growing. Then Luke goes get actual legit Jedi training from Yoda for weeks, if not months, learning how to move things with his mind, advanced saber skills, etc. And his first fight with a Sith has Luke get his ass kicked, including losing his hand.

Finally, in "Return of the Jedi", Luke becomes a fully trained Jedi, able to employ things like the Force Choke and Mind Trick casually, able to fight Darth Vader on an even level, etc. You saw legitimate progress and growth in his abilities, finally becoming a full on Jedi after three films of hard work.

Rey . . . doesn't do any of that. In "The Force Awakens" she picks up Anakin's lightsaber and gets a Force Vision, which Luke didn't get despite being a blood relative to Anakin. Hell, the lightsaber wasn't even the one Luke and Anakin used for most of their careers, Vader spend 20 years using his red saber and Luke spent most of his time with his green one. There's little reason for the saber itself to have that much significance. Then she's not only able to resist Kylo Ren's Force attempts to read her mind, she's able to pull off the Jedi Mind Trick on a Storm Trooper in her first appearance. Then she's able to Force Pull the Lightsaber away from Kylo Ren and eventually beat him in a saber duel. Yeah, Kylo is wounded but he's fighting someone with zero training in lightsabers or the Force, while he's supposedly a trained Fallen Jedi and Knight of Ren.

Then in "The Last Jedi", Rey goes to Luke for training . . . but doesn't actually receive any training on how to use the Force. The most Luke does is help her feel the Force the way Obi-Wan did for him in A New Hope, but she's already done way more than Luke did in that film without that training. She doesn't get any real lightsaber training from Luke, but is able to hold off a whole room of allegedly well trained warriors and stalemate Kylo Ren in a Force Pull contest. And then at the end she lifts several tons worth of rocks on her first try.

Some folks don't like it when Rey is called a Mary Sue, but that's basically what she is. She doesn't do anything to earn her Force abilities, no training, no real character growth or arc, she just has those abilities because she's awesome.

The sequel trilogy on a whole is just a mess. They talk about it being the end of the Skywalker Saga, but no one was calling it the Skywalker Saga before they did, because the Star Wars universe was bigger than Anakin, Luke and Leia. They could have easily set these new films 50 to 100 years down the line, kept the same "lived in" feel of the universe and given us something new instead of just basically rehashing the the original trilogy.

And they frankly botch so many concepts of the original trilogy that it's annoying. There's this line in "The Last Jedi" about how the Jedi and Sith were selfish in wanting to keep the Force to themselves, but that's never been how the Jedi acted. The Jedi had no problem with other Force users in the galaxy and didn't make people join the order against their will. Being a Jedi was not just about being able to use the Force, but being committed to an organization dedicated to protecting the galaxy. The Sith, now they want to keep all the power for themselves, but they're capital 'E' Evil.

And then there was just little things like how Hyperspace worked. In the original films and setting, a ship couldn't make the jump to Lightspeed inside a planetary atmosphere. You always saw them make the jump after leaving a planets atmosphere and never within it. That's because gravity still effects things in Hyperspace and being next to a significantly large mass will actually pull you out of Hyperspace and back into Realspace. Its why they have to make all these calculations before entering Hyperspace because being pulled back into Realspace from Hyperspace by a gravity well can damage your ship. It's also why ships don't collide with smaller objects like ships or asteroids while in Hyperspace, because they're literally in a slightly higher dimension and not interacting with normal matter.

Its why the whole "Holdo Suicide Bombs the Flag Ship" scene was beautifully shot and completely stupid. Not just because it ignores that bit of lore, but because of all the plot holes it creates. There's no reason why the Rebels wouldn't have simply plugged in several droids into larger star ships and have them suicide bomb Star Destroyers or even the Death Star. It creates more plot holes than it solves.

Overall, I've been really disappointed with the Sequel Trilogy. I loved Rogue One and thought Solo was okay, while I thought Force Awakens was a mixed bag and I absolutely hate The Last Jedi.

As it stands, I'm not especially excited for this film. Maybe they'll be able to fix things, but it's going to take really positive word of mouth from people I trust to watch Episode IX, because honestly, Disney's handling of the Sequel Trilogy has left me with little confidence. They honestly should have just focused on more one shot A Star Wars Story style films if they couldn't come up with anything better than what they have.

Hawk
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:50 pm

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Hawk » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:42 pm

Kathleen Kennedy and company killed Star Wars. I have no faith in them, and I will not give them one penny of my money.

User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Ares » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:40 pm

My longwinded rant aside, I don't think Star Wars is dead. Some of the recent films and decisions have hurt it and split the fanbase, but Star Wars is just too ingrained in pop culture and cinema to ever truly die. All Disney would have to do to get the fandom back together would be to release the original versions in Theaters again for a couple of weeks once the Fox Merger is completed. The Disney Theme Parks will do a lot of good in that regard as well. And with the exception of the Princess Leia episode, the Galaxy of Adventure episodes have been really fun.

Star Wars isn't dead, its just hanging out with a bad crowd and got into an accident, and is going through physical therapy to get back into shape.

Hawk
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:50 pm

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Hawk » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:16 pm

Ares wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:40 pm
My longwinded rant aside, I don't think Star Wars is dead. Some of the recent films and decisions have hurt it and split the fanbase, but Star Wars is just too ingrained in pop culture and cinema to ever truly die. All Disney would have to do to get the fandom back together would be to release the original versions in Theaters again for a couple of weeks once the Fox Merger is completed. The Disney Theme Parks will do a lot of good in that regard as well. And with the exception of the Princess Leia episode, the Galaxy of Adventure episodes have been really fun.

Star Wars isn't dead, its just hanging out with a bad crowd and got into an accident, and is going through physical therapy to get back into shape.
I respect your opinion, I just don't think that those in charge appreciate the fans. The only way to force a change is to hit them in the wallet. I still have the original trilogy, and even the prequels are better than what they have given. I can still watch those, but I am just not interested in the poorly developed new characters they have given us. I just don't think as long as Kathleen Kennedy is running the show that the patient will ever be allowed to heal properly.

Chris Brady
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Chris Brady » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:55 pm

As long as JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson's movies exist, Star Wars is dead as a setting. Now, this is going to only matter to loser lore nerds like myself, those of us who REALLY get into a setting and the like. I'm going to ignore what JJ did to the Skywalker legacy, how he undid everythng the original trilogy set up every single victory, gone, by turning Han into a deadbeat dad and senile loser who forgot where he parked the car, how Leia got turned into a failed, useless revolutionary that couldn't even win a war despite having helped destroy two world killing battle stations, nor how Luke because a bitter old, angry hermit who apparently was never a Jedi to begin with as he hid from the Galaxy. Everyone knows how disrespectful that is, don't need to go into it.

Warning, warning, incoming wall of text:

No, what actually destroys the essential fabric of Star Wars' universe is one thing that JJ did and Rian simply expanded on. Turning Hyperspace into Star Trek style 'Warp speed' AND EVEN THEN, doesn't get it right. And even if you don't get into Star Wars as hard as I did, and you watched 'A New Hope', you'd know that warping into a planet's atmosphere is impossible because the precision required is beyond most navicomputers as per Han's scolding of Luke.

But if you're like me and did some basic research, you'd have found out a few points: First, Hyperspace is a separate dimension, where distance and time don't work the same way as in the Real one, but is so close that gravity 'shadows' like planets and suns can interfere with it. That's why the Kessel Run was so impressive, it's so densely packed with black holes, suns and other gravity based anomalies that to Hyperspace safe is nigh impossible. There are also things called 'Hyperlanes' a sort of safely plotted out trade route/path to certain areas in the Galaxy.

The key element is that if you run into a gravity field, you are dead. Like falling at terminal velocity into water dead, broken chunks of salsa looking body dead, floating and separating by the shockwave.

So that in itself means that JJ Wars is non-canon. You simply CANNOT warp into a planetary atmosphere (not that you can in Star Trek either, but that's something else.) However, that brings to The Last Jedi, who took that idea and broke the setting, past, present and future. Now, if you're a casual fan (NOT A BAD THING) you'd realize that the Holdo Maneuver changes space combat FOREVER. You can now Warp Torpedo FLEETS with the simple flick of a switch. No navicomputer, no astromech droid, just blip and boom. Cuz once that cat's out of a bag, it's done, can't put it back in. What's to stop pirates from making big enough boxes with a non-sapient droid brain attached to the hyperdrive switch and take out worlds, even if it's banned by a space treaty? It changes space travel COMPLETELY.

If you are a loser lore nerd (Like me), you know that canonically (and I'm speaking from the canon that Disney ALLOWS from the Extended Universe, this is NOT Legend lore) Hyperspace travel existed for about 15,000 years. Now it becomes the question of "You mean to tell me, a Space Hippy with a Space Gender Studies degree and no military knowledge somehow figured out a combat maneuver that NO weapons designer even so much as stumbled upon?" That now implies that every single Star Wars living creature is too stupid to be allowed space travel. It also makes every Death Star (including JJ's) a colossal waste of time and resources, so why would anyone even bother making one, when all you need is a big enough box full of explosives, an Astromech brain and a hyperdrive to destroy... Pretty much anything?

Star War is dead as a franchise and a setting, and Disney lack of respect, which we've seen over and over again, to a story's continuity and consistency will keep pumping out these stillborn shells of fecal matter hoping to God that people will be wowed enough for them to go to the themeparks, Disney REAL business. It sure as hell ain't merchandising, that's down across the board.

User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Ares » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:40 pm

The Hyperspace thing is a bit of setting lore that messes with the internal consistency of the films, but that's not what makes the new films bad. The new films are bad for blatantly resetting the universe to essentially A New Hope, invalidating the original trilogy and repeating the same story beats, mishandling classic characters, creating poorly thought out new characters, mishandling the setting and disrespecting the source material. In short, they're poor adaptations and continuations of Star Wars.

I do agree that as long as Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy are involved, the films will suffer. Even JJ Abrams hasn't been good for the franchise. They need to put people in charge of Star Wars that have the same love, knowledge and passion for them as the people in charge of MCU films.

User avatar
squirrelly-sama
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:07 am

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by squirrelly-sama » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:55 pm

Disney's Star Wars: We don't need the past movies! Burn the past!
Also Disney's Star Wars: Hey, remember all this stuff from the past? We're bringing it all back!

User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:11 pm

squirrelly-sama wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:55 pm
Disney's Star Wars: We don't need the past movies! Burn the past!
Also Disney's Star Wars: Hey, remember all this stuff from the past? We're bringing it all back!
God, that was a particularly annoying part of The Last Jedi. The whole "don't hold onto the past" message they kept beating into our heads with all the subtly of a thoroughly pissed off Hulk. Which is unsurprisingly what the fanbase resembled afterwards.

Chris Brady
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Chris Brady » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:05 pm

squirrelly-sama wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:55 pm
Disney's Star Wars: We don't need the past movies! Burn the past!
Translation: The Force Awaken and The Last Jedi made mad money! We don't need no old crap!
squirrelly-sama wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:55 pm
Also Disney's Star Wars: Hey, remember all this stuff from the past? We're bringing it all back!
Translation: COURSE CORRECTION! COURSE CORRECTION! MAYDAY, MAYDAY! Solo BOMBED! COURSE CORRECT!
Ares wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:40 pm
The Hyperspace thing is a bit of setting lore that messes with the internal consistency of the films, but that's not what makes the new films bad.
Yes it does. It shows that they don't care enough of the setting to be consistent. It's like suddenly gravity changes on a whim with no reason. The Audience NEEDS something consistent in a setting to hook their interest on.
Ares wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:40 pm
The new films are bad for blatantly resetting the universe to essentially A New Hope, invalidating the original trilogy and repeating the same story beats, mishandling classic characters, creating poorly thought out new characters, mishandling the setting and disrespecting the source material. In short, they're poor adaptations and continuations of Star Wars.
Actually the mishandling of characters is actually much more fixable in later adaptations. Don't get me wrong, crapping on the legacy characters is one of the biggest crimes this trilogy does. Leia is a bad mom and failed revolutionary, Han is a dead beat dad and Luke is a broken hermit and willing to murder teens. This stuff was the worst part of what they did, that you can see.

But like I said, that can be rewritten and altered, as characters can change. But the 'physics' of a setting, a universe? Break that, and you invalidate the entire thing. Star Wars as a setting is dead. It makes no sense, it has no consistency anymore. There's no point to it.
Ares wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:40 pm
I do agree that as long as Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy are involved, the films will suffer. Even JJ Abrams hasn't been good for the franchise. They need to put people in charge of Star Wars that have the same love, knowledge and passion for them as the people in charge of MCU films.
If they did that, then the Producers wouldn't be able to stick their noses in, that's why they don't. Were seeing this in all sorts of media, where actual good writing is being dismissed for merchandising money that doesn't actually exist.

Spectrum
Posts: 1832
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:08 pm

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Spectrum » Tue May 07, 2019 7:29 pm

Good thing that nothing for Star Wars has been released since 1982.

Well, except for Firefly.

Ah, sometimes its good to be delusional. :)
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.

User avatar
Woodclaw
Posts: 1036
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:05 pm
Location: Como, Italy

Re: Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker

Post by Woodclaw » Tue May 07, 2019 10:03 pm

To be honest I'm much more excited about "The Mandalorian", rather than Epidose IX.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

WareHouse W (main build thread for M&M)

Post Reply