The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

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RUSCHE
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Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by RUSCHE » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:59 pm

Woodclaw wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:41 pm
Ares wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:31 pm
I'll be the first to admit that Jane-Thor was pretty badly handled from the word go. Which is a shame because the concept actually works. Jane Foster wielding the hammer is fine, the look she had wasn't bad at all, and the idea of someone using powers that made they cancer worse was something worth exploring. They also did manage to have some high epic fights worthy of a Thor comic.

The problem was that the writer had a very specific agenda for Jane-Thor, and they bent the Thor-mythos into a pretzel trying to accommodate said agenda. Many people would point out that Eric Masterson replaced Thor for a time with little complaint, but Eric had been built up as a regular part of the Thor mythos for years, while Jane hadn't been seen in years. Likewise, Thor was outright gone, missing in action, and Eric was almost always trying to find out where Thor had gone. Eric constantly had to prove himself to the people around him, constantly had to deal with the badgering of everyone saying he didn't live up to the Thor name, had to work to improve himself and come up with his own way to be Thor, he screwed up, etc. And everyone else around him continued to act in character.

To make Jane the new Thor, they had to unconvincingly make Thor unworthy of his hammer, and then come up with this weird notion that Thor is a title, rather than just being the guy's name. She would actually get very offended if anyone called her Lady Thor or something similar, acting like she had a right to the name while the real Thor was still out there. Pretty much everyone was written out of character to either give Jane a lot of emotional validation (the people we were suppose to like and agree with) or to behave like misogynist jerks (Odin, Absorbing Man). The hammer's origin was completely re-done, with the hammer suddenly being sentient and actively liking Jane more, leading to comments about her wielding the hammer even better than Thor.

In essence, Jane became the center of the Thor mythos and had them bent and warped around her to make her the hero, instead of simply being brought into the Thor mythos as a hero the way Eric or Beta Ray Bill were.

This was actually one of the few instances where Avengers Assembled actually handled something better, where Thor gave Jane his hammer to save her life, and it turned out that she was worthy. Then they got separated and Jane continued to use the hammer until they were re-united and the current threat had passed. When it was over, Odin was so impressed with Jane and what she'd done that he gave her a weapon of her own, Thunderstrike (since there was no Eric Masterson in this show), and she was allowed to continue being a hero.

So I while I'd definitely want to retcon aspects of Jane Thor, the idea of Jane having an Asgardian weapon and being her own hero with her own name isn't a bad one. It just needs some polishing so that she doesn't break the Thor mythos by empowering her thusly.

Now America Chavez's solo series, that entire thing is getting retconned as a hallucination due to being poisoned by one of the Serpent Society.
In general the problem is that Jason Aaron decided to work the angle of Mjolnir being a fully sentient entity, rather than possessing a measure of instinct as many previous writers implied. As far as I can understand the idea was that Mjolnir was in fact a prison for a primordial Phoenix-level entity that was conned by Odin. I can see where this came from, since neither Stormbreaker nor the Thunderstrike ever showed any hint of sentience and they were the poor's man copy of the original. Still this premise pretty much piss all over the entire mythos of Thor and force us to ask: why in hell Mjolnir took a liking of Thor in the first place?
Other ignoring Thor and Mjolnir's history , they also hand waved his fight with Bor and the repair to Mjolnir with a part of Thor's soul placed in it. Poorly thought out and poorly executed in my opinion. I had no issues with Jane, just the utter wrecking they did to Thor hist history and damage to his character. He is now a early Simon Williams expy..I am tough bit watch me job to the big threat...

Ken
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Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Ken » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:01 am

I'd show a scene where Koriand'r of Tamaran is explicitly shown to be able to bench press no more than 2 tons, and officially reset her strength level to what it was prior to the Radium Age.

I'd start using the term 'Radium Age' in the letters' pages and the like.
Roy Harper puts the 'arse' in Arsenal.

RainOnTheSun
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Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by RainOnTheSun » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:19 am

Ken wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:01 am
I'd show a scene where Koriand'r of Tamaran is explicitly shown to be able to bench press no more than 2 tons, and officially reset her strength level to what it was prior to the Radium Age.
Has Starfire been boxing Power Girl or something lately?

Ken
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Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Ken » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:49 am

RainOnTheSun wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:19 am
Ken wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:01 am
I'd show a scene where Koriand'r of Tamaran is explicitly shown to be able to bench press no more than 2 tons, and officially reset her strength level to what it was prior to the Radium Age.
Has Starfire been boxing Power Girl or something lately?
Wrestling in salad oil.... I wish.

Honestly, I haven't read a new comic book with either of them in it in ages. But between 2004 and 2011 DC had been telling us that Kory was a lot, lot stronger than she had ever been prior.
Roy Harper puts the 'arse' in Arsenal.

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Ares
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Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Ares » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:03 pm

I have to admit, if I ever got to write for a Conan comic, one thing I'd do is just have Conan straight up get his ass kicked.

Now, I love Conan stories. I've read and re-read Conan way more than I have anything involving Middle-Earth or Narnia. But I always was at least a little annoyed by Howard's bias towards barbarism. There was one story where Conan fought "the best swordsman to ever sail the seas" and kicked his ass because "the greatest swordsman of civilization was less than useless against someone who fought with the ferocity of the natural world".

So I'd have someone from a civilized section of the world just straight up beat Conan in a fight. Not easily, but make it clear that this civilized guy just outfought Conan in a fair battle. And for extra pettiness, I'd make the guy a martial artist, because that would enrage a few folks I know.

That or Conan would go up against the Hyborian equivalent of the Princess Bride crew, and lose a swordfight to Not-Inego, and then lose an unarmed fight to Not-Fezzik.

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Woodclaw
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Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Woodclaw » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:21 am

Ares wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:03 pm
I have to admit, if I ever got to write for a Conan comic, one thing I'd do is just have Conan straight up get his ass kicked.

Now, I love Conan stories. I've read and re-read Conan way more than I have anything involving Middle-Earth or Narnia. But I always was at least a little annoyed by Howard's bias towards barbarism. There was one story where Conan fought "the best swordsman to ever sail the seas" and kicked his ass because "the greatest swordsman of civilization was less than useless against someone who fought with the ferocity of the natural world".

So I'd have someone from a civilized section of the world just straight up beat Conan in a fight. Not easily, but make it clear that this civilized guy just outfought Conan in a fair battle. And for extra pettiness, I'd make the guy a martial artist, because that would enrage a few folks I know.

That or Conan would go up against the Hyborian equivalent of the Princess Bride crew, and lose a swordfight to Not-Inego, and then lose an unarmed fight to Not-Fezzik.
Unfortunately this was very much in line with the general feeling of the setting (i.e. barbarism is the natural and "right" state for humans). The only civilized characters that, rarely, one-uped Conan were usually people that lived at the border of civilization and were somewhere between a barbarian and a civilized man. :(
In my eyes this was often utterly ridicolus because Conan is, in many ways much more civilized than many other characters, he is extremely knoweldgeable, speaks multiple languages, knows a great deal about strategy and tactics and so on. The only really barbaric element in his character is how he eschews many of the nicities of civilization and goes straight for the core of every matter.
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