Palladium/Rifts into M&M

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Jabroniville
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Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Mon May 14, 2018 11:56 am

Okay, so I'd started doing this YEARS ago, before being told that Palladium would TOTALLY attempt a Cease & Desist if I posted it. Ares has said that he's open to anyone posting anything about conversions here, so the Hell with it.

Here's what I had set up for tiers of stuff:

(1d4): Blast 6
(1d6): Blast 7
(2d4): Blast 8
(2d6): Blast 9
(3d6): Blast 10
(4d6): Blast 11
(5d6): Blast 12
(6d6): Blast 13
(1d6 x 10): Blast 14
(3d6 x 10): Blast 15
(6d6 x 10): Blast 16
---
5-30 MDC (+7)
30-70 MDC (+8)
70-110 MDC (+9)
110-190 MDC (+10)
190-260 MDC (+11)
260-340 MDC (+12)
340-430 MDC (+13)
430-530 MDC (+14)
530-660 MDC (+15)
660-800 MDC (+16)
800-1,100 MDC (+17)
1,100-3,000 MDC (+18)
3,000-6,000 MDC (+19)
6,000-12,000 MDC (+20)

So... as you can see, I basically ignored MDC and Mega Damage entirely, because it's annoying and dumb, and doesn't really fit M&M aside from some arbitrary adding of Impervious/Penetrating to literally EVERYTHING. Plus, the levels of things are insane- if I recall right, the main rulebook indicates that a full broadside from a 20th Century BATTLESHIP is equivalent to the routine output of some handheld rifles on Rifts Earth. That's like everyone carrying around Blast 18-20 weapons as basic gear; never mind the stuff Glitter Boys carry around.

What does anyone else think?

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Ares » Mon May 14, 2018 2:44 pm

Yeah, the Mega-Damage System in Rifts made sense to me as a teenager (well of course a tank has MDC compared to the SDC of a pistol), but I think that was the point: this game was designed to appeal to teenagers at their most power-geeky. To this day I love the Rifts SETTING, it's gonzo fun, but the system is an unholy mess.

The system is, of course, notorious for its constant escalation, with things getting thousands of MDC and guns that would vaporize humans and battle tanks. Even the Glitter Boy's Boom Gun (which was suppose to be one of the most powerful weapons on the planet) got less and less impressive as time went on. Granted, the insane dice values didn't help either, where you could wind up doing between 10 and 180 damage depending on the dice roll.

Rifts. A prime example of a fun setting almost ruined by its creators and a horrible system. From what I've seen, the Savage Worlds version is a much more playable and enjoyable take on the franchise, at least system wise. It's prime real-estate for a M&M conversion.

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Mon May 14, 2018 3:53 pm

Palladium actually relented, slightly, on their draconian lockdown policy and licensed a Savage Worlds version of RIFTS. It’s actually a very well-done adaptation of the original game’s themes and tone (survival in a post-post-apocalypse world) with some nods to the over-the-top sensibilities the gameline picked up over time (big ass guns for everyone!).

For decades, the long-standing joke was that Rifts was the “most popular game no one actually played.” But pairing the Rifts setting with the Savage Worlds engine works very, very well.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Woodclaw » Mon May 14, 2018 4:04 pm

Ares wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:44 pm
Yeah, the Mega-Damage System in Rifts made sense to me as a teenager (well of course a tank has MDC compared to the SDC of a pistol), but I think that was the point: this game was designed to appeal to teenagers at their most power-geeky. To this day I love the Rifts SETTING, it's gonzo fun, but the system is an unholy mess.

The system is, of course, notorious for its constant escalation, with things getting thousands of MDC and guns that would vaporize humans and battle tanks. Even the Glitter Boy's Boom Gun (which was suppose to be one of the most powerful weapons on the planet) got less and less impressive as time went on. Granted, the insane dice values didn't help either, where you could wind up doing between 10 and 180 damage depending on the dice roll.

Rifts. A prime example of a fun setting almost ruined by its creators and a horrible system. From what I've seen, the Savage Worlds version is a much more playable and enjoyable take on the franchise, at least system wise. It's prime real-estate for a M&M conversion.
Mekton Z used a similar concept called Kills to simulate the fact that vehicles and characters operates on two different scales of damage. The trick, although was that normal guns could be "Kill-capable" allowing human to take down mechas with the right hardware.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Ares » Mon May 14, 2018 4:22 pm

Woodclaw wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:04 pm
Ares wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:44 pm
Yeah, the Mega-Damage System in Rifts made sense to me as a teenager (well of course a tank has MDC compared to the SDC of a pistol), but I think that was the point: this game was designed to appeal to teenagers at their most power-geeky. To this day I love the Rifts SETTING, it's gonzo fun, but the system is an unholy mess.

The system is, of course, notorious for its constant escalation, with things getting thousands of MDC and guns that would vaporize humans and battle tanks. Even the Glitter Boy's Boom Gun (which was suppose to be one of the most powerful weapons on the planet) got less and less impressive as time went on. Granted, the insane dice values didn't help either, where you could wind up doing between 10 and 180 damage depending on the dice roll.

Rifts. A prime example of a fun setting almost ruined by its creators and a horrible system. From what I've seen, the Savage Worlds version is a much more playable and enjoyable take on the franchise, at least system wise. It's prime real-estate for a M&M conversion.
Mekton Z used a similar concept called Kills to simulate the fact that vehicles and characters operates on two different scales of damage. The trick, although was that normal guns could be "Kill-capable" allowing human to take down mechas with the right hardware.
The WEG Star Wars system had different "scales" of damage as well. I believe it went something akin to "Blaster / Speeder / Starfighter / Capital Ship", where basically you'd receive penalties to your Resistance check based on the size of the damage coming your way. This was to keep Wookies from being able to just stand out in the open and tank hits from a TIE Fighter. Meanwhile, someone trying to take out a Capital Ship with a blaster pistol was doomed to failure.

So basically, there were systems that did the kind of thing MDC was attempting to do way better than Rifts.

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by catsi563 » Mon May 14, 2018 10:20 pm

Human, Speeder, Walker, Starfighter, Capital, and Death Star were the scales

the basic rules were each scale above was a +2 to be hit since the thing was generally larger and slower thus easier to hit but it received a +2 to resist the attack since it was larger and tougher

Conversely each scale above received a -2 to hit a lesser scake because smaller faster dodgier, but a +2 to damage since a bazooka swatting a mosquito could get pretty messy.

the speeder scene in hoth is a prime example where the speeders were easily able to hit the slower lumbering walkers Speeder scale +2 to hit Walker scale but the ATATs heavier armor made them all but invulnerable to the speeders weapons

the walkershad a hard time hitting the speeders but when they did BOOM was the result.

The speeders had to rely on a trick with the harpoons bringing the walkers down and exposing a weak spot which the speeders exploited ie the speeder pilots used character points to boost the damage and got a lucky role on the downed walkers.

The deathstar from ep 4 was also a prime example as the deathstar it self was impossuible for the star fighters to hurt in any ways +4 to hit but a +4 body to resist, similarly the capital scale weapons were -2 to hit the star fighters but did massive damage when they hit.

it took a force point assisted role to put a pair of torps into the vulnerable spot and begin the chain reaction.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by catsi563 » Mon May 14, 2018 10:41 pm

As a regard to the stats Palladium I found can be tricky but not impossible to convert

the stats are for the most part easy

Iq = Int
Mental Endurance = Wisdom/awareness
Mental Affinity = Charisma/ presence
Physical Strength = Duh Strength
Physical Prowess = Agility and or Dex
Physical stamina = Con/ Stamina
Physical Beauty = closest is boosted charisma with attractive if the stat is high enough
Speed just basic running speed

Stats run from 1-100 potentially or higher in some cases

best starts run from 3-to a potential 30 with atheltic skills and racial or power bonuses or class bonuses adding to them

top human is generally 35-40 max with anything beyond that being superhuman and depending on the world getting into the mega damage MDC areas

1-8 is usualy low or below average for a stat in M&M were talking -1 to -5 and below of course

9-15 is considered average with no bonuses +0-+1 could be justified

16-35+ is the exceptional ability range +2-7 for max humans would be solid here

35+ to 150+ is your superhuman range and anywhere here from +8-20 and up

then apply appropriate advantages for Physical beauty ie attractive etc

in regards to the damage listings posted i think you might be overdoing just a little erring on the high side if you will.

a holdout pistol is +2, +3 for a light pistol and +4 for a heavy maybe +5-6 for a hand cannon like a 44 or 454 casull

so if we looka t the palladium guide of contemporary weapons

it lists a walther ppk james bond sfavorite as 2d6 easilly a holdout pistol

berettas are listed as 1d8-2d6 also in line with a holdout but we could up that to a light pistol

Colt 45 standard is 4d6 pretty solid so a heavy pistol no sweat

44 magnum ruger listed as 5d6 also a heavy pistol

from there just apply basic common sense to the conversions whats the pl? use the basic Ats as your guide for further deeper conversions
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 15, 2018 1:31 am

Oh, those damage stats were for Mega-Damage weapons, not SDC ones. There's a lot of log-jamming and ignoring stuff when you jam MD & SDC together.

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by catsi563 » Tue May 15, 2018 4:40 am

ah got you. PL 16 glitterboys sheesh that's not terrifying or anything and that's from someone who played a glitterboy--girl-- Pilot for a decent campaign length.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 15, 2018 4:57 am

I’d eyeball the standard Glitterboy to be around PL10; The Boom Gun has great power, but isn’t remarkably accurate... +8 To Hit, Damage 12, with Multiattack and lots of Penetration; linked to a Close Burst Affliction 6 that stuns and deafens.

Incidentally, when I converted Warhammer 40,000's iconic Space Marines over to M&M3e, I put them at PL10 / 165 PP. Astartes Power Armor seems a pretty even match for RIFTS smaller robots and larger powered armors, like the Glitterboy Suit. Although the actual specifics will vary between them.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 15, 2018 5:27 am

Looking over the stats in the Ultimate Edition Core Rulebook, the standard Glitter Boy suit, the USA-G10 Chromium Guardsman has the following key traits:

• Height 10'5" Weighs 2,400 lbs.
• Top speed of 60 MPH
• Can leap 12', 22' with a running start, 80' with thruster assist
thrusters can hold it aloft as high as 12' for 1d6x10 seconds
• 15 mph water speed (surface or submarine)
• full environmental seal and onboard food/water
• Physical Strength equal to Robot PS 30 (that means a lift and carry capacity of 750 lbs.)
• Sensor package with lost of visual senses and laser targeting
• Laser Resistant ARMOR
• Built-in language translator (Yeah, that seems odd to me too -BGIII)

The "Boom Gun" has an effective range of 11,000' with a 300' radius sonic boom as a side effect. One Boom Gun flechette round hols 200 skugs that inflict 3d6x10 MD to the target.

Shouldn't be too hard to convert that into M&M stats.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Ares » Tue May 15, 2018 5:49 am

I have to admit, claims of being overpowered aside, I love the Cosmo-Knights from the Phase World setting. It's like a Green Lantern and a Herald of Galactus had a baby, and then said baby was raised by Rom: Space Knight and Thor. I even took some of the art from the book and tweaked it for my own custom Cosmo-Knight.

Image

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 15, 2018 6:00 am

Personally, I would assume that Rifts characters would have stats similar to Comic Book characters: PL 8-12. HOWEVER... this is a VERY COMMON PL in the Rifts-verse, as opposed to something that's only for superhumans. So a huge portion of the population can match the PL of your PCs.

Eyeballing stuff:
Street Rat: PL 5 (the lowest-end fighters, but still packing dangerous weaponry)
Rogue Scholar: PL 6 (I still love that art. A dude READING A BOOK like an action hero, complete with gun. It's so silly)
Coalition Soldiers & Skelebots: PL 6
Juicers: PL 8
Cyber-Knights: PL 9-10
Elite Juicers: PL 9-11 ("You wanna be tough, be a Juicer; you wanna be a GOD, be a Mega-Juicer")
Psionics: PL 7-10
Crazies: PL 8
SAMAS Pilots: PL 10-11
Glitter Boy: PL 11-12 (supposedly the high-end thing, but probably not really. Still one of the better guns you can get)
Dragons: PL 10-12

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 15, 2018 6:34 am

Image
GLITTER BOY
Rifts Character
Power Level 10 ( 190 PP )

It's not about fame, power or money. It's about generations of tradition and making a difference, helping people who need it. That's our destiny.
ABILITIES
Strength 0 (4)
Stamina 0 (4)
Agility 3
Dexterity 3
Fighting 3
Intellect 1
Awareness 2
Presence 3

SKILLS
Acrobatics 2 (+5), Athletics 5 (+5/+9), Close Combat [Robots & Power Armor] 9 (+12), Expertise [Robots & Power Armor] 4 (+5), Insight 3 (+5), Intimidation 5 (+8/+10), Investigation 4 (+5), Perception 6 (+8), Persuasion 2 (+5), Ranged Combat [Firearms] 5 (+8), Ranged Combat [Boom Gun] 2 (+5), Technology 4 (+5), Treatment 4 (+5), Vehicles 5 (+8)

ADVANTAGES
Accurate Attack, Benefit [Status], Contacts, Improved Aim, Interpose, Lionhearted

POWERS
USA-G10 Chromium Guardsman Armor "Glitter Boy" (70 Base; F: Removable) [ 56 PP Total ]
Comprehend Languages 2 (Speak One at a Time, Understand All; F: Limited to Broad Type [Humanoid]) [ 2 PP ]
Growth 4 (+4 Strength, +4 Stamina; +5 Mass, +1 Size; +2 Intimidate; -2 Defense; E: Feature [+1 Mass], Innate, Permanent) [ 9 PP ]
Protection 8 (E: Impervious [12]) [ 20 PP ]
Immunity 10 (Laser Descriptor; F: Half Effect) [ 10 PP ]
Immunity 10 (Life Support) [ 10 PP ]
Immunity 5 (Sonic Descriptor) [ 5 PP ]
Senses 8 (Auditory: Radio; Visual: Extended [2], Distance Sense, Infravision, Low-Light Vision, Time-Sense, Ultra-Vision) [ 8 PP ]
Speed 5 (60 MPH); Leaping 1 (15') [ 6 PP ]

RG-14 Rapid Acceleration Electromagnetic Rail Gun "Boom Gun" (60 Base; F: Removable) [ 48 PP Total ]
Damage 15 (E: Extended Range [3], Improved Critical [2], Penetrating [5], Ranged) [ 40 PP ]
Linked To: Affliction 5 (Resist/Recover: Fortitude; Conditions: Impaired, Disabled,
Unaware; E: Area [250' Burst; 3], Cumulative; F: Limited to One Sense [Auditory]) [ 20 PP ]

DEFENSE
Dodge (8/6) Base 5
Parry: (8/6) Base 5
Fortitude: (6/10) Base 6
Toughness: (0/12) ——
Will: (6) Base 4

WORKSHEET
Attack: 12 Effect: 4 Total: 16 (Unarmed, Glitter Boy)
Attack: 5 Effect: 15 Total: 20 (Boom Gun)
Dodge: 8/6 Tough: 0/12 Total: 8/18
Parry: 8/6 Tough: 0/12 Total: 8/18
Fort: 6/10 Will: 6 Total: 12/16


ABILITIES [ 30 pp ] +
SKILLS [ 30 pp ] +
ADVANTAGES [ 6 pp ] +
POWERS [ 104 pp ] +
DEFENSES [ 20 pp ] =
190 PP TOTAL

COMPLICATIONS
Power Loss/Side Effect (Automatic Stabilization System): The blast of the "Boom Gun" is so powerful that without the automatic stabilization system, the Glitter Boy would be thrown to the ground and knocked back thirty feet every time it fired. The automatic stabilization system is a synchronous system of jet thrusters in the back and retractable reinforcement pylons in the lower legs that hold the armor steady and in place. The pylons and jets normally activate the moment the "Boom Gun" is fired, however if they are damaged, inoperable, or cannot be used for some reason than the Glitter Boy must either forego using his weapon or risk the side-effects.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 15, 2018 11:57 am

Neato! And hey- you used the same Blast Damage I did in my concept (3D6x10 is a Boom Gun's damage, and I set that up at Blast 15).

One of the mind-blowing things about the character creation process in this game is the sheer randomness of it all. I mean, that's normal for "Roll Up Your Character" games, but some of the differences are STAGGERING. Check out the Dragons- all four have 1D4 x 100 MDC (two add 50 points to that)... imagine being the guy who rolled a 1? He literally has ONE QUARTER the Health of the top level. ALL THAT with one freaking roll of the die!!

Goddamn did the art ever improve in later games. The artists improved the Coalition Armor in particular. Kevin Long is VERY hit or miss (to be fair, he's probably working on a HELL of a time budget, given how much of his art is in this book). His Glitter Boy art STILL holds up, all these years later (SO MANY YEARS, JESUS), but his Techno-Wizards look like goofs. And OH GOD HIS BURSTER. The Dog Boys are probably the most infamous thing- I knew a guy who had a character focused around exterminating them, simply because they "look dumb" (the guy holding his Wolverine claws out all limp-wristed is probably the worst offender in that drawing, though. I still remember it like it was yesterday).

Comparing stuff against each other, even briefly, is interesting. SAMAS Suits are about half as good as Glitter Boys (Damage & MDC), except they can fly. A Dragon that rolls well is tougher than a SAMAS, but doesn't do as much damage (especially if its a GH or Thunder Dragon). But doesn't lose ammo. And has Psionics.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHH the Insanity Tables. "Why NOT annoy all your fellow gamers and demand they pay attention to you?" as a class feature.

Interesting how many classes just get "Armor", which can vary greatly in scale- is there anything stopping you from just picking the best one, short of the GM saying no?

Part of what stalls me on doing this: I know damn well I'll be compelled to stat up every Magic Spell. AND every Psychic Ability!

I never had much of a taste for Magic in any RPG- can anyone tell me what playing a Mage OCC in this game was like? They get the same Armor as other dudes to a point, so they're not as squishy as in D&D. Are the Spells that good? Are some classes WAY better than others? The Mystic one seems to be deliberately low-level.

Though it's easy to make fun... there's a lot of iconic stuff in here. Cyber-Knights (cyborg paladins with psionics!), SAMAS Suits, Dead Boys, Skelebots, Techno-Wizards, Ley Line Walkers (even their WIZARDS are totally different, with this distinctive masks), Glitter Boys, Juicers, Crazies and more. In terms of creativity, they just blasted it right out of the park in the main rulebook. No wonder this damn stupid setting has been around for so long.

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