Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Skaramine
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by Skaramine »

One more thing about Dragonmage...

Apparently Steve liked the character enough to make him the Mage of the Emerald City Sentinels (Dragoneye...)
The ATT member formerly known as both MorningKnight and Power-Glove.
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Goldar
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by Goldar »

Batgirl III wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:09 pm
Ken wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:56 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:55 pm But why can’t we get more characters like ... Jon Stewart...?
I'd rather have characters like John Stewart. Jon Stewart's just a supposed comedian who's a part of the problem. ;)
Damn you, Typo-Man! I will have my revenge one day!
Now, now...let us not be sexist...just as likely was Typo-woman! :roll:
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Goldar wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:47 pm True, because not everyone Asian person knows martial arts!

When comics portray it that all martial artists are Asian, that is the Stereotyping.
And yet there are a******s that would claim that doing otherwise is cultural appropriation.
Batgirl III wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:49 pm There’s nothing inherently wrong with the “Wearing A Flag As Your Costume” trope — everyone loves Captain America, Captain Britain, Vindicator, etc. Nor is their anything wrong with “My Cultural Traditions Dialed To 11 Are My Superpower” trope — Silver Samurai is cool, Knight and Squire are cool, etc.

But it’s boring when that’s the ONLY aspect of the character.
I've never been a big fan of this kind of characters because it's so damn hard to find someone that can write them right. As a result they tend to be very hit or miss.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by M4C8 »

Goldar wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:47 pm True, because not everyone Asian person knows martial arts!

When comics portray it that all martial artists are Asian, that is the Stereotyping.
Honestly, no matter what you do there's always someone who's going to complain. While we all agree that Asian characters being martial artists is a stereotype we still had people calling out Marvel for not casting an Asian actor to play Iron Fist. Sadly more often than not due to the modern cultural intense fear of being labelled racist or sexist the complainers quite often end up getting the changes they want, even when they're wrong or should have just been ignored.

Anyway, that's all I'll say on the subject as last time a similar issue was raised I kind of 'went off on one' :oops:
Last edited by M4C8 on Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by Goldar »

M4C8 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:59 pm
Goldar wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:47 pm True, because not everyone Asian person knows martial arts!

When comics portray it that all martial artists are Asian, that is the Stereotyping.
Honestly, no matter what you do there's always someone who's going to complain. While we all agree that Asian characters being martial artists is a stereotype we still had people calling out Marvel for not casting an Asian actor to play Iron Fist. Sadly more often than not due to the cultural intense fear of being labelled racist or sexist the complainers quite often end up getting the changes they want, even when they're wrong or should have just been ignored.
Right...and I was agreeing with what Ares had written just above my post. ;)
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by M4C8 »

Goldar wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:13 pm
M4C8 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:59 pm
Goldar wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:47 pm True, because not everyone Asian person knows martial arts!

When comics portray it that all martial artists are Asian, that is the Stereotyping.
Honestly, no matter what you do there's always someone who's going to complain. While we all agree that Asian characters being martial artists is a stereotype we still had people calling out Marvel for not casting an Asian actor to play Iron Fist. Sadly more often than not due to the cultural intense fear of being labelled racist or sexist the complainers quite often end up getting the changes they want, even when they're wrong or should have just been ignored.
Right...and I was agreeing with what Ares had written just above my post. ;)
As stereotypes go its not a terrible one to be honest, better than the bad teeth one we Brits get (despite on average, officially having the healthiest teeth on the planet)
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by Batgirl III »

I have a theory, that I don’t know if I quite have the right words to describe, that a big problem the current crop of “All New! All Different! All Diverse!” comics / movies / novels / games have is that they are being written by people who are not fans for an audience that are also not fans. (Ta-Neshi Coates, anyone?) This is then exacerbated when the existing fanbase of the work criticizes it, but lacks the skill to explain their dislike in the right way. Then the author and the author’s fans get to accuse the criticism from the older fanbase as “racist misogynist cishet white men who are afraid of change!”

The recent reboot of Ghostbusters is a good example of the existing fanbase not having the “critical language of film theory” as part of their skill set. The movie has flaws – flat characters, bad comic timing, a very poorly written villain (even by Ghostbusters 2’s already low bar), etc etc. But the criticism all got dismissed as “sexist whinging” because, well, a lot of it came across that way. I don’t think the old guard of fans were being sexist. I think it was a flawed-but-okay movie that was seen as a unnecessary reboot of a beloved classic...
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Wildfire

Post by Jabroniville »

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Seriously, why does anyone screw with the Cockrum design? LOOK AT IT!

WILDFIRE (Drake Burroughs, aka Energy Release Generator-1, Atom'X, Blast-Off, NRG)
Created By:
Carey Bates & Dave Cockrum
First Appearance: Superboy & The Legion Super-Heroes #195 (June 1973)
Home Planet: Earth
Origin of Powers: Physics Accident
Eras: All Three
Relationships: Dawnstar (Kinda-Sorta)
Role: Cocky Guy, Flying Blaster, Wants-To-Be-Human Guy
PL 13 (232)
STRENGTH
13 STAMINA -- AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (Science) 5 (+8)
Intimidation 10 (+10)
Perception 6 (+7)
Technology 5 (+8)
Vehicles 2 (+5)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Equipment 10 (Legion Gear), Extraordinary Effort, Improved Critical (Blasts) 2, Improved Smash, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Living Anti-Energy"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Protection 15 (Extras: Impervious) [30]
Flight 12 (8,000 mph) [24]
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) [2]
Power-Lifting 2 (800 tons) [2]

Anti-Energy Blast 16 (Feats: Split) (Extras: Penetrating 8) (41) -- [43]
  • AE: "Energy Wave" Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (26)
  • AE: "Energy Stream" Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (26)
Equipment:
"Legion Gear"
"Telepathic Ear Plug" Comprehend 3 (Languages) (6)

"Legion Flight Ring"
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Vacuum, Pressure, Radiation, Suffocation 2) (7)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) (2)
Communication 5 (Flaws: Fifth Rank is only towards Legionnaires) (18)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Anti-Energy Blast +9 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Energy Area Effects +13 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +15 (+8 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will +6

Complications:
Involuntary Transformation (Living Energy)- If his Containment Suit is damaged (more vulnerable to piercing damage than any other kind), if he over-does his Power Attacking, or if he ever uses Extraordinary Effort, Drake's energy body can erupt forth and become unable to touch or communicate with others. His energy form can only float around in an insubstantial state- somebody will have to get him a new Suit.
Relationship (Dawnstar)- Drake is utterly devoted to his "Dawny", and is nearly always seen by her side. He frequently gets aggravated when she ignores him or acts aloof around him, and he acts extremely protective around her. If you threaten to kill, injure, rape or otherwise harm Dawnstar in front of Wildfire, he will immediately transform into a PL 15 being, maxing out his Containment Suit and being harmless for the rest of the action scene. Be warned: this has killed a Guardian of the Universe.
Temper- Drake is easily angered, and is the single Legionnaire most-likely to throw an early punch, even at a teammate!
Reputation (Cocky Blowhard)- Drake is more than a little sure of himself, and is frequently disbelieving of others' abilities.
Quirk (Brash & Tactless)- Drake pretty much says what is immediately on his mind, which often rubs people the wrong way.
Responsibility (Living Energy)- Despite his attitude, Drake hates the fact that he is living energy- it causes him to be unable to feel a lover's touch (keeping him eternally apart from Dawnstar), and separates him from others. He also has no sense of taste or smell in this form.

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 22 / Powers: 131 / Defenses: 12 (232)

Wildfire- Best Legionnaire:
-Wildfire exploded onto the scene in the Dave Cockrum-designed '70s Legion, and pretty much overnight became one of the most popular characters, even though he DIED in his first issue. He sacrificed himself to save the team, revealing his "forbidden" unique power- a suicide attack that left his suit an empty shell. However, he passed the most important test any character could ever pass in comics- he LOOKED COOL. So instantaneously, fans were like "Hey, BRING THAT GUY BACK!!". And when they did, changing him from the silly "ERG-1" to "Wildfire", he was so popular that fans voted him to be the new Team Leader, even though he rubbed all of his teammates the wrong way so they'd probably never have voted him in for real. Basically, they "Spider-Gwenned" him.

-It's all timing- he was a loose cannon, a rebel in a world of yes-men named "Lad" and "Kid", he had bad-ass levels of power, and it was the era right before Wolverine (another Cockrum-influenced character) hit it big enough to become comics' most successful character created outside of the Golden or Silver Ages. With the constant angsty threat of being discorporated hanging over his head like the Sword of Damocles, he was angry and bitter a lot of the time, and when he wasn't, he was being boisterous and arrogant, ripping on his teammates and going on about how awesome he was. In short, Wildfire was a Marvel character thrown into the DC universe.

-It's actually funny how great all the Wildfire scenes are in the Legion stories I've read- a great number of Legionnaires tend to be bland or one-note, and so Drake stands out all the more when he's proclaiming victory or arguing with all of his teammates. He commands attention in a way that few others do- people like him, Dream Girl & Timber Wolf really stand out. The fact that he's also a total bad-ass helps as well- he easily fits into the Super-Heavyweight squad that went against the Anti-Monitor, yet he also had some key weaknesses (such as his easily-damaged suit that reduces him to useless floating energy), preventing him from being "That Guy You Have to Write Around" to get him beaten in team fights. So he can command attention, but doesn't command ALL of it.

Wildfire Debuts:
-Wildfire was Drake Burroughs, an astro-engineer who gained his powers in an accident that disintegrated his entire body. His consciousness survived, and he was saved by being placed in a containment suit. Calling himself "Energy Release Generator 1" (ERG-1, for short), he found his personal relationships dying (his ex-girlfriend, thinking him dead, was frightened by his appearance), and so he applied for Legion membership, disguising his self-pity and sadness under a veil of arrogance. His powers, alas, were not unique, so he couldn't make the team- his one unique power was one he "couldn't use". Of course, at the end of the story, he DID use it- discorporating himself to save the team. The team mourned him and saluted his bravery, but he eventually found his way to their HQ, and re-entered his empty suit. Thus, he took the name "Wildfire", and pointed out his unique characteristics- he was made of energy, and needed his suit to function at all.

-Wildfire proved to be a powerful fighter (he was in the "Top Tier" with Superboy, Ultra Boy & Mon-El), and even made Legion leader at one point. He was decisive and good at tactics, but was sorely lacking in people skills- the more selfless character in the early days soon shifted into a bit of a blowhard with a tendency to be overly-direct and blunt with others (an "Origin Story" book would indicate this was a deliberate method of dealing with his inner torment- he acts out so nobody feels sorry for or pities him- he's way too proud to accept that). His stint as leader was short-lived (though he adopts a mentorly relationship with three recruits that continues for a while), but he did manage to recruit a member to the team. The squad met... *sigh*... DAWNSTAR...

Wildfire & Dawny:
-Wildfire was transfixed by the beautiful, winged descendant of Amerindians, and gladly put her up on the Legion thanks to her tracking abilities. And thus began the most interesting, and most doomed, of the Legion's couples. I mean, here you've got this boisterous, arrogant douchebag, yet he basically actively worships this stoic, aloof winged nudist that barely gives anyone the time of day. It's SO OBVIOUS he loves her, too- he follows her around constantly, he sings her praises all the time (and he NEVER sings people's praises- he's usually the first to point out someone's flaws!), he one-shotted an evil Guardian of the Universe clone when he implied he was going to make her his slave, and he once declared a massive battle a loss just because she'd disappeared- then immediately switched his opinion once she turned up okay ("hey- turn that to a victory after all, guys!").

-But the relationship was so fascinating- Dawnstar was incredibly distant and aloof with everyone, refusing to let anyone in. Wildfire doted on her, but was an overprotective ass (once literally throwing her off-planet because she was about to be attacked by Darkseid's Shadow Monsters). They clearly cared for each other, but his lack of a physical body made him unwilling to bite the bullet and reveal his obvious feelings- his self-pity overwhelmed him. Dawnstar clearly cared for him as well, but was herself unwilling to be with a man who had no physical form- this lack of physicality drove a wedge between the two of them, and since they were both exceptionally-proud, arrogant people, neither could properly express themselves. So there's this moody depressing undercurrent to their unconsummatable relationship. It's really goddamn "Marvel Silver Age". Funnily enough, the Bierbaums, later Legion writers, more or less accuse both characters of being too Marvel-inspired, which is why they never cared for them.

-But of course, this is comics, so the "Will They, Won't They?" thing often just turns into "They Won't", because writers get sidetracked, or throw one too many wrenches into the works, etc. So you get Dream Girl/Star Boy, Shadow Lass/Mon-El, Ultra-Boy/Phantom Girl, etc., but poor Wildfire & Dawny just never quite gets going- she gets a crush on a guy from a primitive planet, and despite the fact that he's a one-off, she more or less drops Drake, acting distant and confessing things when he pushes her to. And of course, Wildfire immediately "gets it" and accepts her decision ("No worries, kid- a good man is hard to find"). And the one time he gains a physical form, she finds herself unwilling to hook up with it since his new form is so unnatural... and probably because their status-quo being altered frightened her. When she finally agrees to it... he's too hot to the touch to do anything without causing her pain. Dawny is willing to bear it for him, but he's unwilling to hurt her, and breaks it off. GODDAMN SHAKESPEARE.

The End of Wildfire:
-Wildfire would lose his solid form when Quislet, who'd helped him maintain it, left the Legion. He would eventually die saving the Earth in the "Five Years Later" era, and would largely disappear from the book, having reignited Earth's Sun. By the end of continuity, he was stuck in the deceased Sun Boy's body. A charred corpse, as a matter of fact, and so he resisted Dawnstar's advances. This continuity ended very shortly afterwards. Despite being such a big part of the Legion, to me, Wildfire wasn't a major character anywhere else. Hell, it was pretty clear Keith Giffen wasn't a fan either, because Drake was gone during much of his run as solitary Legion creator.

Later Wildfires:
-In any case, the "Reboot" era would use him in a weird way. When Mordru killed two different heroes- Atom'X (Randall Burroughs) and Blast-Off (Jahr-Drake Ningle)- their energies intermingled, and were eventually contained in a Wildfire-like powersuit they called "ERG-1". When the containment suit opened and he was lost in space, ERG-1 became a star- the two minds finally merged into one, and were given the name "Wildfire". Eventually, however, he was used to power the world of Qward, and even after being rescued, running out of power was a constant threat.

-"Threeboot" Drake was a different beast- he still got the "dies on his first mission" trait, but his brother Randall gathers his energies and uses "E.R.G.-1" as an assassin. This was very far into this version of the Legion, and it was soon done for.

-Geoff Johns, in restarting the old Legion continuity (pre-"Five Years Later"), indicates that Wildfire is actually in the shell of the android Red Tornado. He and Dawnstar finally accept their relationship in this continuity, which didn't last long, and didn't feature them as major characters. The New 52 featured a Legion Lost series that starred the pair, along with some others, but it lasted only sixteen issues.

Wildfire = Rad:
-But really, Wildfire is THE BEST. With a tragic origin story, he's basically Ben Grimm with a more abrasive personality, but just enough that he's pretty hilarious. Most of the best & funniest scenes in the Levitz-era stuff I've read come from Wildfire either boasting, being petty, or giving the rare congratulations to a teammate. There's a great bit in The Great Darkness Saga where Darkseid cops to losing as his plan unravels, he releases the team, and disappears... and Drake is like "WAHOO!! WE SURE SHOWED THAT BIG GREY ASSHOLE!" the SECOND he leaves, so Darkseid just pops up a spectral image in front of Drake and taunts him with some dark portens of the future. And on a team of pretty bland people with some... occasionally IFFY costume choices, Wildfire packs one of Dave Cockrum's best designs, a boastful & brash personality, and the kind of attitude that throws a wrench into everything without being "Danny Chase"-level annoying. He's fantastic. Some DC writers didn't care for him because he's too "Marvel", but that's really why he's THE BEST- DC heroes are BORING and Marvel's are fun, miserable, arrogant, psychotic crazy people who can't go twenty minutes without arguing with someone.

Wildfire's Powers:
-Wildfire's considered one of the most powerful Legion members, alongside the Supers, Mon-El and Ultra Boy, and it shows in his build. A PL 13 (12.5 Ranged, 13 Area Effects) Blaster-type who also acts as a Flying Brick, he packs tons of raw power (Penetrating AND Area Effects on his Energy Blasts), super-strength and toughness, allowing him to hold his own against just about anybody. He even had a few other powers early-on that got dropped- his Energy Constructs, Phasing & Absorption went the way of Nuklon's Phasing power, as did his ability to grow super-huge (his debut was more or less "I have the powers of everyone in the Legion!", because they weren't expecting him to stick around). As a "Blast"-focused guy, that pretty much has to be his defining attack, and in my opinion, he's still a notch below ol' Superboy. Still a very expensive multi-powered guy, though, especially since he's more of an energy construct than a human being, making him immune to plenty of effects.

-After meeting with fellow Energy Construct Quislet, Wildfire learned to change his Energy Form more solid, effectively changing none of his stats, but removing his Complication for losing the Suit. Alas, this is pretty much the DEFINITION of Wildfire, so he soon lost the ability (see how Victor Stone finally became fully human again... only to turn back into Cyborg a couple years later). Hell, until the Reboot happened, he was living in the corpse of his slain teammate- Sun Boy!

-Later versions of Wilfire in "Reboot" and "Threeboot" were likely PL 8-9 beings at most.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon May 30, 2022 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by M4C8 »

Batgirl III wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:23 pm I have a theory, that I don’t know if I quite have the right words to describe, that a big problem the current crop of “All New! All Different! All Diverse!” comics / movies / novels / games have is that they are being written by people who are not fans for an audience that are also not fans. (Ta-Neshi Coates, anyone?) This is then exacerbated when the existing fanbase of the work criticizes it, but lacks the skill to explain their dislike in the right way. Then the author and the author’s fans get to accuse the criticism from the older fanbase as “racist misogynist cishet white men who are afraid of change!”

The recent reboot of Ghostbusters is a good example of the existing fanbase not having the “critical language of film theory” as part of their skill set. The movie has flaws – flat characters, bad comic timing, a very poorly written villain (even by Ghostbusters 2’s already low bar), etc etc. But the criticism all got dismissed as “sexist whinging” because, well, a lot of it came across that way. I don’t think the old guard of fans were being sexist. I think it was a flawed-but-okay movie that was seen as a unnecessary reboot of a beloved classic...
The same happened with the most recent FF movie, the fans saw the directional the movie was going in, quite rightly had issues with changing everything that made the characters successful in the first place and outright told the makers of the film how terrible their ideas were and yet despite the fact that Johnny now being black was just one issue in a long list the fans were just dismissed as racist and therefore their opinions were ignored.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad! Trainees! Wildfire!)

Post by Batgirl III »

And yet the same fans had zero issue with a Black Heimdall, a Black Nick Fury, an Asian Quake, and so on and so forth... They weren’t upset about the race-change, they were upset by the crappy story. But they didn’t word it with the correct film theory academia jargon.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad! Trainees! Wildfire!)

Post by MacynSnow »

My favorite DC guys were always dudes that looked intresting or had a unique background.Firestorm,Nuklo/Atom Smasher,Wildfire,Blue Devil,Deadman and heck, i even like the cast roster of Justice League Detroit and Batman&The Outsiders.....
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by Ken »

Goldar wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:09 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:09 pm
Ken wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:56 pm

I'd rather have characters like John Stewart. Jon Stewart's just a supposed comedian who's a part of the problem. ;)
Damn you, Typo-Man! I will have my revenge one day!
Now, now...let us not be sexist...just as likely was Typo-woman! :roll:
I think she meant me. And I have all the dangly bits and a Y-chromosome, so yeah, Typo-Man.
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When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Brainiac 5! White Witch! Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad!)

Post by Ken »

M4C8 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:44 pm The same happened with the most recent FF movie, the fans saw the directional the movie was going in, quite rightly had issues with changing everything that made the characters successful in the first place and outright told the makers of the film how terrible their ideas were and yet despite the fact that Johnny now being black was just one issue in a long list the fans were just dismissed as racist and therefore their opinions were ignored.
Johnny being black and Sue being white didn't phase me. I've known families like that since I was three. I was somewhat incredulous as to which child was adopted into the Storm family, and which was born to it. But it wasn't a problem, just atypical from my experience.
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When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad! Trainees! Wildfire!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Any other day is fine for off topic, but today I'm posting my favorite Legionnaires. Please drop the side-notes.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Kinetix! Supergirl! Element Lad! Trainees! Wildfire!)

Post by Ken »

If Wildfire's containment suits have arms and legs that can be moved by Drake as if they really are arms and legs, why couldn't someone (Braniac 5) build in the necessary attachments so that Wildfire could still "grow huge" while with Dawnstar?
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
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