Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

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Batgirl III
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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Batgirl III » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:05 am

Ah, yes... The fetus was only in his ninth trimester.
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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Jabroniville » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:37 am

Beleriphon wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:43 pm
Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:25 am
Probably mental health + gender. A guy here did only 5-ish years for DECAPITATING SOMEONE ON A GREYHOUND BUS because he was "off his meds" and is now "low-risk".
That guy also spent 5 years in a psychiatric hospital as he was deemed not criminally responsible, but couldn't reasonably be released as he was a danger to the public. There is a vast difference between somebody knowingly committing a crime and somebody in a psychotic state committing a crime. Remember, to be convicted of a crime you need mens rea and actus reus: the intent and the action. The intent part is wrapped up in all kinds of mental health issues.
Yeah, I just find it astonishing that you could kill someone in such a horrifying manner and get so little time away from the public, never mind his "Unconditional release" that means that he doesn't even need to be checked up on any longer. Naturally, the family of the murdered guy was mortified.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Chris Brady » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:43 am

How is any of this surprising? Women have ALWAYS been the most protected member of the human race. The entire basis of Western society is built on women and their needs.

It's disgusting, but not very shocking.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Batgirl III » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 am

There’s a big difference between putting women and children into the lifeboats first, and letting a woman who tried to strangle a toddler walk with less than a slap on the wrist...
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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by BriarThrone » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:08 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 am
There’s a big difference between putting women and children into the lifeboats first, and letting a woman who tried to strangle a toddler walk with less than a slap on the wrist...
The fundamentals are the same. Women are a protected class. On a fundamental level, humanity is wired to protect women. So when women are upset about something, our instinct is to fix it. So when a woman is sitting in a courtroom acting upset, at the very least about the possibility of going to prison, and hopefully with some regret for her actions, the instinct of every person around is to reframe the scenario in such a way that the crime wasn't really her fault, not REALLY, and therefore we can surely set up the sentence in such a way as to not be such a bother...

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Beleriphon » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:42 pm

Jabroniville wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:37 am
Yeah, I just find it astonishing that you could kill someone in such a horrifying manner and get so little time away from the public, never mind his "Unconditional release" that means that he doesn't even need to be checked up on any longer. Naturally, the family of the murdered guy was mortified.
As I would expect they are. Its an unfortunate reality but the criminal justice system actually doesn't really care that much about the victim of a crime. Criminal law just isn't setup to handle that aspect of what happens. A victim of an assault could completely forgive the accused, and not want to deal with criminal law at all. A good prosecutor would take that into account, but ultimately it doesn't matter what the victim thinks in whether or not prosecution proceeds or in what manner, because the entire process is meant to deal with accused and what they've been accused of doing.

Is that fair? I'm not sure, but then I'm hardly in a position to make those decisions.

In the end, the Greyhound bus guy was determined to not be a danger any more. No matter what happens punishing somebody for something they didn't know was going on isn't justice, and that's what the determination was. Its not going to bring back a deceased family member, and locking a guy up as a form retribution doesn't do much.

There are a few basic functions of sentencing in Canada: Denunciation, Deterrence, Separation of offenders, Rehabilitation, Reparation, and Promotion of responsibility. I think its pretty clear what they mean, but in short: denunciation, as a society we disagree with this behaviour to such a degree you lose your freedom if we prove you did this thing; deterrence, stop other people from doing the thing by making an example; separation of offenders, which is basically getting an offender out of society, or away from the victims; rehabilitation, try to help an offender become an functional member of society and overcome any personal issues that lead to the offence; reparation, a judge can actually order an offender to pay reparations to the victim; and, promotion or responsibility, an offender who takes genuine responsibility for their actions generally gets a lighter sentence. If you went through all of those, and the rather hefty sentencing guidelines for judges what happened is unusual, but not uncalled for.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Chris Brady » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:29 pm

BriarThrone wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:08 am
Batgirl III wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 am
There’s a big difference between putting women and children into the lifeboats first, and letting a woman who tried to strangle a toddler walk with less than a slap on the wrist...
The fundamentals are the same. Women are a protected class. On a fundamental level, humanity is wired to protect women. So when women are upset about something, our instinct is to fix it. So when a woman is sitting in a courtroom acting upset, at the very least about the possibility of going to prison, and hopefully with some regret for her actions, the instinct of every person around is to reframe the scenario in such a way that the crime wasn't really her fault, not REALLY, and therefore we can surely set up the sentence in such a way as to not be such a bother...
Here's a point on this. Whenever a man is accused of a crime, let's murder of his wife, the first common reaction you will see around you is the denunciation of him. He's a monster, why would he do that? All the blame is immediately fixated on him.

When a woman kills her husband, the first common reaction is, what did he do to drive her to that? The expectation is that she was forced into the act, rather than acting on her own.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by BriarThrone » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:34 am

Chris Brady wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:29 pm
BriarThrone wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:08 am
Batgirl III wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 am
There’s a big difference between putting women and children into the lifeboats first, and letting a woman who tried to strangle a toddler walk with less than a slap on the wrist...
The fundamentals are the same. Women are a protected class. On a fundamental level, humanity is wired to protect women. So when women are upset about something, our instinct is to fix it. So when a woman is sitting in a courtroom acting upset, at the very least about the possibility of going to prison, and hopefully with some regret for her actions, the instinct of every person around is to reframe the scenario in such a way that the crime wasn't really her fault, not REALLY, and therefore we can surely set up the sentence in such a way as to not be such a bother...
Here's a point on this. Whenever a man is accused of a crime, let's murder of his wife, the first common reaction you will see around you is the denunciation of him. He's a monster, why would he do that? All the blame is immediately fixated on him.

When a woman kills her husband, the first common reaction is, what did he do to drive her to that? The expectation is that she was forced into the act, rather than acting on her own.
Man mutilates his wife: he is rightly castigated by the public immediately.

Woman mutilates her husband: ample jokes are made, she is lionized as some sort of hero/victim, Sharon Osborn is giggling about it on daytime TV.

If you are above the law, you are an aristocrat. Women are the modern aristocracy.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:32 am

Another one to add to my pile of ‘“have sex with” is not how you spell “rape”’ stories. With an added bonus of substituting the factually accurate, but abhorrent, description of “compel children you have legal authority over into coming to a secondary location so you can rape them” with the not technically inaccurate, but far more benign sounding, euphemism of “being invited to a party.”
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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by BriarThrone » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:45 am

And she got a suspended sentence. Typical.

If the genders had been reversed, and it was a college-aged man inviting young high school girls over and having controlling sexual relationships with them, I'm pretty sure he'd be in prison right now, and rightly so. Instead, she has the judge making excuses for her and telling her to be on her best behavior for two years.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:53 am

BriarThrone wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:45 am
If the genders had been reversed, and it was a college-aged man inviting young high school girls over and having controlling sexual relationships with them, I'm pretty sure he'd be in prison right now, and rightly so.
However, if he had directed a movie like Chinatown, then it'd be perfectly okay. :roll:
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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by BriarThrone » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:10 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:53 am
BriarThrone wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:45 am
If the genders had been reversed, and it was a college-aged man inviting young high school girls over and having controlling sexual relationships with them, I'm pretty sure he'd be in prison right now, and rightly so.
However, if he had directed a movie like Chinatown, then it'd be perfectly okay. :roll:
Obviously, celebrities and high profile Democrat politicians are above the law. Which needs to change.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Ares » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:24 am

Since this has basically become a thread about women benefiting from double-standards, here's some much more mild cases:

Leslie Jones Calls Chris Evans 'Fine As F---' on Twitter

New York Times stands by new tech writer Sarah Jeong after racist tweets surface

Both of these are much less the "anger inducing bits of news due to the tragedy of a woman getting away with rape, assault and/or murder", and more just "eye-rolling at the double-standard no one seems to be noticing".

Basically, in the first instance, Leslie Jones cat-calls Chris Evans, and Chris just responds good-naturedly. Because Chris Evans is a good human being. But if the roles had been reversed . . . well, that's a bad example because Chris isn't the type to do that . . . and even if he was, no one would complain. Myself included. And if someone starts cat-calling Leslie Jones, that person is probably really just making a cry for help. But I'm pretty sure if the genders had been swapped, the #MeToo movement would have been all over it as a sign of toxic masculinity in Hollywood.

With the New York Times article, we have someone making Tweets about how much she enjoys bringing misery to old white men, how she's glad white people aren't breeding and will soon be extinct, and similar things. And the New York Times is apparently cool with that.

So I guess the lesson here is that what you say on Twitter only matters to people if you're a white guy.

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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:21 pm

Or a white woman with the wrong political opinions (Cf. Barr, Roseanne).
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Re: Woman faces descrimination as police and media refuse to label her crime "rape".

Post by BriarThrone » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:20 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:21 pm
Or a white woman with the wrong political opinions (Cf. Barr, Roseanne).
I still don't buy the idea that Roseanne was being deliberately racist with that tweet, but it was obviously close enough to a thing associated with racism that it was easy for the media to twist into a Thing. Any celebrity that's not hard-socialist should know to cover their ass better.

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