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Feint Maneuver: When do you use it?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:57 pm
by Celondon
Feinting lets you use a Standard Action to make a target Vulnerable to your next attack.

In all my M&M games, I can think of less than 5 times a player has used this maneuver. The opportunity cost is simply too high and the benefit is too low. Consider, against a target with a Dodge of 10, you have a chance (contested roll) to reduce their dodge to 5 on your next action. A 25% increase in chance to hit is good, but is it worth a Standard Action?

I love the flavor of this sort of move, but neither myself nor others I play with ever actually *use* it. Trip is in a similar state; what it does is rarely worth the Action cost.

So, my question is, how do your groups uses these actions? Do they, even? Have you house ruled it?

Re: Feint Maneuver: When do you use it?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:30 pm
by Flynnarrel
I've mostly seen it used in conjunction with Set-up where you pass the vulnerable condition to someone(s) who can utilize it immediately - someone with a high-damage/low-attack tradeoff.

Re: Feint Maneuver: When do you use it?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:33 pm
by Celondon
Looking into it, I found this text under Deception:

"Uses of Deception in action rounds are generally standard actions, although you can attempt to deceive as a move action by taking a –5 penalty to your check."

I'm going to have to rethink this! This bit changes everything for me!

Re: Feint Maneuver: When do you use it?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:23 am
by catsi563
basically you have 3 options with it

standard action you feint as a standard action

Feint as a move action at a -5 penalty

Feint as a move action no penalty via Improved trick or feint advantages.

so it for the most part is done as a standard action or move action prior to the standard action

And as Fly said you can use it as a standard or move action with the same penalties as part of a set up.

Re: Feint Maneuver: When do you use it?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:23 pm
by EpicEclipse
catsi563 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:23 am
Feint as a move action no penalty via Improved trick or feint advantages.
Where do you get those advantages from? They are not standard in 3E hero handbook, not 2E feats thay I recall.

Re: Feint Maneuver: When do you use it?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:24 pm
by FuzzyBoots
EpicEclipse wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:23 pm
catsi563 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:23 am
Feint as a move action no penalty via Improved trick or feint advantages.
Where do you get those advantages from? They are not standard in 3E hero handbook, not 2E feats thay I recall.
Challenge Feats were introduced in the Mastermind's Manual and later showed up in Iron Age and Warriors and Warlocks off of the top of my head.

Re: Feint Maneuver: When do you use it?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:57 pm
by EpicEclipse
FuzzyBoots wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:24 pm
EpicEclipse wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:23 pm
catsi563 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:23 am
Feint as a move action no penalty via Improved trick or feint advantages.
Where do you get those advantages from? They are not standard in 3E hero handbook, not 2E feats thay I recall.
Challenge Feats were introduced in the Mastermind's Manual and later showed up in Iron Age and Warriors and Warlocks off of the top of my head.
I'll be honest, it's been so long since I looked at 2e thay I forgot those were a thing.

Always good to cite sources for things not in the core player handbook since sometimes hat is all a player has. Do challenge feats show up in 3E Mastermind Manual? I don't have mine handy at the moment to check.

The question wasn't clear whether it was for a specific edition or either, but the same solution may not exist in both editions, since porting stuff over is the prerogative of the GM so won't necessarily be available.