Kaiju RPG!

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drkrash
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Kaiju RPG!

Post by drkrash »

I apologize that this is cross-posted from TBP from about a year ago, but just this past week I was reflecting that this board is actually my favorite nerd community and so I realized I should probably post this here too.

It is also the case that 2021 is shaping up to be a good year for kaiju-related media, so I am committed to working on this.

Every few years, someone suggests that there needs to be a kaiju rpg, and I've been giving this a lot of thought. There are kaiju board games and minis games (and even fewer of those than I'd like really), but when it comes to role-playing, kaiju only fit into a few categories:

1) Kaiju as just a monster-type in a game not featuring them
2) Kaiju fighting mecha (definitely the most common)
3) Kaiju understood in a comical or non-traditional fashion

There are also some settings for games that feature kaiju, but even those seem to strive to be different from a more traditional “Toho-verse” sort of approach.

I’m interested in changing this. I have a pretty solid track record of designing rules systems for a sub-genre of a sub-genre and I like designing games whose mechanics specifically emulate the tropes of the genre. This thread is more of a public brainstorming, but if something shakes out of this, I’m serious about going forward with actual design and publication.

(I also fully concede that traditional daikaiju stories could be done in many, many systems, but I’d like to see a game that was actually about kaiju stories and nothing else.)

While kaiju is definitely a small genre, there is still room to call many kinds of stories “kaiju stories.” So let me define what I am specifically looking to work with.

1) The origin of kaiju don’t have to be defined, because the origin should only impact stories, not mechanics. Irradiated prehistoric animals, protectors of the planet’s ecosystem, space monsters? Doesn’t matter; the kaiju rules should be the same.
2) By “kaiju,” I definitely mean “daikaiju.” I’m talking about monsters over 100 feet in size that threaten cities, not armies of giant insects or 50-foot tall humans.
3) The kaiju are immune to conventional weaponry of all sorts. Nuclear weapons might stop some of them. Maybe. All conventional armed forces can do is annoy a kaiju enough to send it away.
4) This is not Pacific Rim, so there are no mechs to fight the kaiju. The only exception to this might be a secret super weapon. Maybe a couple of them. But definitely not a lot of them. Pacific Rim mechs seem like a fine idea for a future supplement.
5) Speaking of which, scientific super weapons would be a significant part of the setting. I don’t know if their development should be baked into the mechanics or just a presumption of a typical story arc.

My inspirations for the types of stories come from the Toho films themselves, Legendary’s new Monsterverse, and also from IDW’s Godzilla comics, which I thought had some great ideas.

I have several pages of notes already, though some of them are a first draft that I have largely abandoned. I have plans for three or four “classes," but primarily it would be a game about Soldiers and Scientists. The Scientist gathers, interprets, and applies information. The Soldier defends Scientists, saves innocents, works to drive away kaiju, and fights lesser monsters and aliens.

It will be easier to write rules that presume humans vs. a single kaiju, but kaiju combat seems like such a dominant feature of the genre that it would have to be part of the core rules without being so detailed or important that it dominates the game (there are other games out there for doing this, like Monster Island). The resolution of a kaiju battle should determine specifically what kinds of problems the PCs have to deal with.

I'm open to ideas, things you'd like to see, inspirations you can offer, or even just an "atta boy." :)
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Ares
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by Ares »

First off, here's an "atta boy" just because I like the concept, and if your work on FIGHT! proved anything, you've got a solid understanding of how to customize rules for specific genres and sub-genres, especially if you've got a lot of enthusiasm for them.

Like you said, the concept itself lends itself well to future supplements. A giant robot game is a natural idea, both in terms of Pacific Rim-style giant mecha, or even more anime/Sentai-inspired Super Robot stuff with smaller vehicles merging into a giant one, etc. Those kinds of games would make it easy for groups of humans to actively fight against Kaiju in an even engagement.

Another possible supplement would be 50's "Atomic Horror", where there's a similar break down of scientist, soldier, civilian and the like. Aliens, giant monsters, lost world, it would all fit and make for fun RPG stuff. Films like THEM!, Lost Continent, The Beginning of the End, Earth vs the Spider, The Amazing Colossal Man, War of the Colossal Beasts, Deadly Mantis, Creature from the Black Lagoon, It Conquered the World, the Creeping Terror, plenty of good source material, especially if you're a MST3K fan.

Likewise, maybe either for the main book or an additional supplement would be something inspired by the Ultra-series, where you explicitely play a giant Ultra-Man-style hero. Though that could easily be worked into the giant robot book, especially if that book is equal parts Tokusatsu/Sentai.

I find a lot of Kaiju films tend to boil down to one of two types: the humans are trying to survive the kaiju, or the humans are hoping for one kaiju to kill another. Both of those end goals could be worked into the actual systems of the game, and it might be interesting if the game starts with the players not knowing which one they're in, and only later figure out whether the goal is to simply survive the attack, to assemble something to defeat the kaiju, or do something to help the kaiju they want to win to come out victorious.

Of those end goals, I find two big recurring ones are "get the super weapon to work" or "get the kaiju on your side". In those cases, especially if the superweapon is a giant robot, then perhaps in the end game, one reward is that the group gets to collectively control the giant anti-kaiju weapon or control the kaiju on their side. Lets face it, a big draw of kaiju films is watching the giant monster you're rooting for to overcome the other monsters it's fighting. So maybe if the end of the adventure, depending on how well they've done determines whatever advantages the "good" kaiju has, and then the players get to collectively control the kaiju they spent time "building up" to this point and fight the opposing kaiju. These rules could also work cooperative control over a single giant robot or something similar.

One thing you definitely want to avoid is "The Bystander Effect". Some RPGs have an issue where at some point, the players are forced to just watch several GM NPCs interact and just wait to see what happens. White Wolf's Aberrant RPG had a particularly bad example of this, where the players just watch as two beings far beyond their power level fight and they can't do anything to influence things. Thus the idea that the time spent up to the giant final monster on monster fight could do something like securing bonuses and benefits for their kaiju that they can use during the fight, and the players getting to take control of the kaiju, makes the final fight feel like a real group effort with some solid payoff.

Anyway, those are just some ideas. I'm looking forward to seeing what else comes of this and will back the heck out of it when the time comes.
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drkrash
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by drkrash »

Thanks for the support, Ares; I appreciate it. I started this idea in summer '18, gathered 10 pages of single-space notes over several months, had the skeleton for a whole system in place, then life killed momentum. I returned to it in summer '20 and was disenchanted with what I had: half of it was too much of an over-structured very specific game experience and the other half...I didn't understand anymore. With the new year (and the GvK trailer especially), I started more or less from scratch making a more traditional RPG experience at its core.

Thanks also for all the ideas. A few comments on them:
- I will probably avoid a full-on "mech" set of rules, except inasmuch as I can relate them back to kaiju. Put another way, I think they will not be as robustly detailed as a dedicated mech game.
- My first "mech goal" would be Mechagodzilla or Maguera. I may try to get some version of this in the core.
- The focus to start is daikaiju, but other kaiju would be a fun supplement.
- Ultraman style action needs a place...though I have not yet loved Ultraman, despite multiple attempts. I'll keep trying.
- The core game play will be "dealing with a walking natural disaster."
- Kaiju battles are going to be a challenge, but I know they are an absolute core necessity. I don't want kaiju to be super-detailed, but they have to be detailed enough to make their battles not boring.
- The planned core game does not have the PCs as passive during the giant monster rampage. There is a whole sort of "mini-game" or combat sub-system for that with player choice at the center. In kaiju vs. kaiju combat, I like the idea of players controlling the "hero" kaiju, even if the *characters* might have little or nothing to do with control of the kaiju.

I'll keep posting here as I develop things.
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by catsi563 »

Im with Ares on one particular thing . the issue youd have with a kaiju only thing is that without he Jaegers or a simialr mechanic you run into as he pointed out the Pax Mal fight where two gods are going at it and all the PCs can do is stay out of the way so they dont get vaporized. Kaiju in such a system basically become natural disasters that the PCs can only really stand around and watch which as a PC generally becomes boring after a point.

Oh great Bobs up and smashing trenton Nj again. PCs roll their eyes think we can get him to head towards atlantic city i got a parking ticket there a week ago

you need to give PCs a way to interact with or affect the outcome and like Pacific rim or not the Jaeger effect is a part of the kaiju genre now. Also dont dismiss the giant animals or swarms of monsters thing out of hand as well movies like Them or night of the lepus or squirm, can have their own monster moments which can lead to all sorts of adventuress for players
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by MacynSnow »

catsi563 wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:29 pm Im with Ares on one particular thing . the issue youd have with a kaiju only thing is that without he Jaegers or a simialr mechanic you run into as he pointed out the Pax Mal fight where two gods are going at it and all the PCs can do is stay out of the way so they dont get vaporized. Kaiju in such a system basically become natural disasters that the PCs can only really stand around and watch which as a PC generally becomes boring after a point.

Oh great Bobs up and smashing trenton Nj again. PCs roll their eyes think we can get him to head towards atlantic city i got a parking ticket there a week ago

you need to give PCs a way to interact with or affect the outcome and like Pacific rim or not the Jaeger effect is a part of the kaiju genre now. Also dont dismiss the giant animals or swarms of monsters thing out of hand as well movies like Them or night of the lepus or squirm, can have their own monster moments which can lead to all sorts of adventuress for players
I'm with Catsi & Ares on this. Unless you want the players to be Giant Kaiju(there's a reason King of the Monsters & King of Tokyo are popular even today), you need to be able to make Human's just as Dangerous as the Kaiju.

That's why you should have the game be geared more towards stuff like Them, The Giant Tranantula, Attack of The 50 foot Woman, etc. Kaiju that the players CAN effect & interact with. That's why most Godzilla movies have this weird Human sub-plot to it.
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by drkrash »

A big part of the default play experience (by which I mean the "normal" way the game is meant to be played, but not the only way) is that the PCs are people in positions of responsibility and authority. As such, one of the principal sub-systems I'm developing is where the characters plan what weapons they are going to develop, what weapons they are going to have available, and what weapons are going to be best suited to this particular kaiju.

Then, when the kaiju attacks, the "combat system," if you will, is the PCs directing the resources they have lined up to stop or re-direct the kaiju before the city is destroyed. Instead of a scale of personal attacks and personal HP, the team is dealing with units of planes and maser batteries, while maintaining the "HP" of the city.

I'm really, really not interested in the *core* gameplay being Jaegers or Sentai or Super Robots vs. kaiju. I don't need to design that game; it already exists in a bunch of forms. I am looking to focus on the humans for sure.

(And I already designed a game that can do video game style brawls between kaiju!)

If someone wants to read what I have in mind for the game, see the IDW series of Godzilla comics, especially Godzilla and Rulers of the Earth. I'm also drawing from the Nemesis series of kaiju novels. The Legendary movies also have more human roles that matter.

Also, I am not reserving the "big monsters that are not kaiju" solely for a supplement. Such creatures are part of the daikaiju genre also: see (especially) Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, Godzilla Final Wars, Cloverfield, and even (shudder) the '98 Godzilla.

(I'd also like to have room for Final Wars super-powered weirdness, but not to the point of losing the kaiju focus.)
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

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I'm really, really not interested in the *core* gameplay being Jaegers or Sentai or Super Robots vs. kaiju. I don't need to design that game; it already exists in a bunch of forms. I am looking to focus on the humans for sure.
just to clarify none of us are really calling for the CORE elements to be jaegers etc but that any such kaiju game should not dismiss or not include them out of hand. anime sucha s tranzor Z or giant robo voltron and so on all show how those can work


what youre basically proposing is effectively Sim city with kaiju which again are in the background as walking natural disasters immune to conventional weaponry. this means the PCs by default may as well be sending people to their deaths opposing them while they"' warm up"" the big guns so to speak in the vaiin hope that something will work

thus cna have some fun rp elements mind you depending on which pcs you have if theyre up for such. in my experience most players are more proactive wanting to get ""hands on"" so having a way for them to do so would very much help the games cause
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by drkrash »

I get you. What I have in mind (and which maybe I didn't explain adequately) is definitely more than Sim City with kaiju.

Imagine a fantasy scenario in which the PCs are heroic leaders who need to organize the defense of a town against a powerful force. They need to decide what troops to muster, how to deploy them, how to shore up defenses, and then, when the attack occurs, they need to keep the available troops organized in an attempt to defeat or drive off the attacking force. In addition, prior to the attack, they may have had to do either magical research to prepare a major defensive ritual and/or go on quests to acquire information, magic items, or allies.

That's the core of the game I'm designing.

If your players are only going to have fun being the 4 guys who go out and fight the attacking force on their own, this isn't the game for them. Fortunately, there are other games that do that.

Now, I concede that a campaign full of playing "town defender" could get same-y also, which is why there is also room for exploration adventures, rules-supported scientific research, espionage missions, political missions, even space exploration if you want that type of campaign. And these scenarios can have plenty of skill use and personal combat.
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

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I've been fooling with game titles because I work better if my project has a more exciting name to me than "kaiju RPG project." Here's what I have so far. I don't think I've found a winner yet.

Daikaiju! (straightforward, if not stellar)
Die, Kaiju! (a little too cute for my tastes)
Rampage (I like this name a lot but I'm concerned about trademark issues with the video game and movie. "Rampage" is almost certainly going to be a game term.)
Some acronym name similar to G-Force from the movies (the game isn't intended to have a default setting, but if I change my mind on this, it makes some things easier to write. But I really, really prefer a generic setting that can be customized, like I did with Fight!.)
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by Davies »

... S.O.S. Kaiju, or Kaiju S.O.S.. The first part of the Godzilla anime trilogy used S.O.S. as part of its ending theme, possibly as a reference to the 2003 film Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S..
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drkrash
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by drkrash »

Oh, I like that idea!
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by Batgirl III »

You could also make the S.O.S. stand for something in-universe, rather than just be a distress call. “Special Operations Section” or “Science Observation Section,” or whatever. This could be the default framing device for the PCs.
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

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This is also good! Thanks! (I need a :thumbs up: smiley]
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by drkrash »

I honestly fell in love with Kaiju SOS.

Unfortunately, it seems to be the name of an upcoming CGI online comedy film.

SOS Kaiju is OK too, but I liked the other one more.
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Re: Kaiju RPG!

Post by Batgirl III »

Having the S.O.S. come after the word kaiju just feels more Japanese to me... Maybe you could come up with something to add to the title?


“Kaiju Panic S.O.S.”

“Kaiju Defense S.O.S.”

“Super Kaiju S.O.S.”

“Kaiju Tactics S.O.S.”
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