Mass Combat?

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slade the sniper
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Mass Combat?

Post by slade the sniper »

Is there any mass combat systems that people here use and like in conjunction with RPGs. I don't mean strictly miniatures wargames because there are so many systems for that, or for wargames writ large, but rather mass combat systems similar to that found in M&M Golden Age or Cyberpunk Chrome Berets.

-STS
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catsi563
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Re: Mass Combat?

Post by catsi563 »

Well M&m 3rd ed in the GMs guide has a mass combat system where each unit of troops is considered a single entity and attacked and damaged as such.

most people though tend to run Mass combat as an abstract. with the combat taking place as a background scene to the individual fights of the PCs, so while the barbarian and fighter fight back to back in a dpeserate struggle against the teeming horde of goblins the elf ranger fires arrows over their heads to take out the orc Lt and the halfing thief sneaks behind enemy lines on a dangerous quest to lay a curse stone for the Magic user to target with a whopper of a spell that will insure victory.

each PC gets a chance to shine and insure victory if they do their individual jobs right. and each pc action affects the overall scenario
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slade the sniper
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Re: Mass Combat?

Post by slade the sniper »

I know how most games/gamers handle mass combat which is background/off camera while the PC's do something "important," except that:
In some games the character progresses to a point where they become actual leaders, not just more fighty fighters.
In some games the PCs do things that influence the fight and the fight influences the PCs
In some games the PCs do a lot of the planning and setting up for the big fight and the players may want some sort of mechanical benefit for that

I despise being a player who does all sorts of nifty things in character, with skills, with background to support them, and then have the GM either ignore it because they have no idea what those actions would really do, or mean....OR, they just choo choo along their pre-ordained plot path.

Nothing is more stupid (IMO) than to have PCs make a plan for A, B and C while the team simultaneously does Big Battle D...then have the GM just fail. It really makes a lot of character types useless, and a game that actually HAS rules for PC's affecting a battle gives a new environment such as having PCs plan a battle, direct the battle, and then they can then decide WHEN and WHERE to directly intervene to change the entire battle.

Meh, I guess I am getting to the point where "Hero McPunch Face" is really just not enjoyable...and instead of having SuperHero vs physically weak mastermind and his army of mooks....I would like to have two masterminds and their minions fight each other with a bit more detail than found in most RPGs.

Anyway...yeah. Sorry for ranting.

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mrdent12
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Re: Mass Combat?

Post by mrdent12 »

I would argue that what you describe, in M&M at least, could be handled as a skill challenge. Intimidation could weaken the enemy force, or a small group of it as PL and PC level dictates. Deception could cause whole opposing units to fall to their deaths thinking what they were doing was ordered. Technology(with aid of sacrificial underlines if desired) could disable whole opposing unit communications systems. Things like that are all in the rules of M&M if applied properly and if the GM properly makes the skill challenge.

All of that said, it is not trivial for a GM to do those sort of things. In addition, the sheer amount of possibilities make creating hard and fast rules difficult if not impossible. I've largely played M&M the last few years, a game more open ended than ones I played previously, so take it as you will. I've been in and ran some games where the PC's did control the battle and the troops via skill checks or the holding combat action as the PC's desired. The battle leveraged the systems mechanics, but required the GM to be flexible enough to allow for off the wall ideas.
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catsi563
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Re: Mass Combat?

Post by catsi563 »

Funny enough though that's what the mass combat rules allow and do, by treating each enemy mass as a single combatant you make the effects trickle down to the lower ranks. an intimidation check scares the troops and the commander has to bully them back in live (ie make the save) to get them fighting

the commander makes a tactics check to try to figure out what the PC is doing and counter it by giving orders, to counter the deception or tactics checks of the PC.

but yeah its also tough because you have to take individual heroes among the ranks into account and that's a whole other story.
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Spectrum
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Re: Mass Combat?

Post by Spectrum »

Exalted 2nd ed has a fun idea of using a different scale of combat, more or less allowing characters to put on armies as an extra piece of equipment and having abilities that change how that piece of equipment can work.
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Ken
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Re: Mass Combat?

Post by Ken »

As a Catholic, I can say, fighting is frowned upon during services, especially the Consecration.
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