Question in regards to Affects Insubstantial

A place to discuss game rules, homebrew systems and the like.
Post Reply
ZenGypsy
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:29 pm

Question in regards to Affects Insubstantial

Post by ZenGypsy »

I suppose this question relates primarily to the Extra: Affects Insubstantial as described below ...
Affects Insubstantial
An effect with this extra works on insubstantial targets, in addition to having its normal effect on corporeal targets. Rank 1 allows the effect to work at half its normal rank against insubstantial targets (rounded down); rank 2 allows the effect to function at its full rank against them.
I suppose my question comes from my visualization of this ability, so let me explain my example. If I am creating a character who can create an Energy Barrier that prevents people from Phasing through it, I can build it as follows;
Energy Barrier: Create 10 (Volume: 1000 cft., DC 20; Affects Insubstantial 2: full rank; Reduced Range: close)
A whooping 12 Point ability, now, conceptually, he can create a barrier, up to 1000 cubic feet centered on his current position. Also, that barrier prevents an character with Insubstantial from crossing that threshold. Great! That makes sense to me ...

Except wait ... Descriptors! So E=MC2 can create an Energy Barrier, such that people like Kitty Pride (who disperses her molecules), the Atom (who slips between ... well, atoms), or the Flash (who vibrates through physical objects) can't by pass the barrier. Ok, dandy, I am cool with that. Yet, I don't feel that this Barrier should stop Soul Siphon the Ghost, or Demon Delinquent, the Spirit of Angry Teens from crossing the threshold, as they are more of a mystical, or supernatural descriptor.

So is that a Quirk, resulting in a PP discount, a Power Loss for whenever the GM has a spirit slide through and soul noogie you, or just a case of GM fiat?

Just curious on other people's interpretations of how descriptors balance with mechanics.
User avatar
Psistrike
Posts: 651
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Question in regards to Affects Insubstantial

Post by Psistrike »

I would go with Power Loss complication for whenever a spirit or such slips through the barrier myself.
User avatar
badpenny
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:05 pm
Location: Kakistocracy

Re: Question in regards to Affects Insubstantial

Post by badpenny »

Yep, since the mechanics state that the effect affects Insubstantial (whatever the descriptor), it's up to you to take a Complication that allows Y descriptor through, or the GM to Fiat and hand you an HP.
Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat
FuzzyBoots
Posts: 2402
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Question in regards to Affects Insubstantial

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Personally, I'm kind of on the cusp of doing the two ranks of Affects Insubstantial as that the first rank handles one descriptor and the second allows all (maybe instead going for the Narrow, Broad, All as with other ranked feats). Logically speaking, a half-power effect seldom really does all that much against opponents when you really need it, and I similarly dislike the idea of someone being able to affect all sorts of Insubstantial when the descriptors vary so much.
User avatar
Batgirl III
Posts: 3626
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:17 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Question in regards to Affects Insubstantial

Post by Batgirl III »

I'd go with a GM's Fiat invoked Complication, for simplicity's sake. Because I just don't see this as
Something that will happen often enough to warrant taking up space on the character sheet.
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
Flynnarrel
Posts: 6822
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:23 pm

Re: Question in regards to Affects Insubstantial

Post by Flynnarrel »

It's like the Sense that Counters a specific Concealment for 2pp, or Counters All Concealment for 5pp. Descriptors don't matter - Magic invisibility or smoke/particulates or Psychic (don't see me) field. Visual Concealment is countered.
"Something pithy this way comes."
Post Reply