Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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Ares
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

Post by Ares »

. . . while that's likely either a mistake or someone who works there being a Cap fan, if this whoooooole thing turns into a long game to reveal that, yes, we are going to go back to calling him Captain Marvel . . . it will still have sucked that they decided to go with one of the worst portrayals of Cap and Billy, but at the very least they won't be calling him Shazam anymore. It would at a minimum be a step in the right direction.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Voltron64
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

Post by Voltron64 »

Okay the reviews are coming in and apparently critics are liking what they're seeing.
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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I was hopeful when I heard they were making this movie. I grew up reading the comics about the Marvel family and watched the 70's live action show on Saturday mornings. I am not a fan of characters gettinng powers in movies they didn't have in the comics or characters that don't act the way I feel they should. Unless I missed something sincevI have not read comics in years, I don't remember Captain Marvel/Shazam being able to throw lightning bolts.

I agree with Ares that the characterization of Billy is wrong and Dr. Sivana should be a scientist. I didn't like Man of Steel because Superman was too grim and not heroic enough, among other issues I had with the film. I enjoyed Superman II but couldn't stand the new powers they gave Kryptonians.

I understand that sometimes comic characters cannot be translated to film without some modifications but I feel that some of these changes go too far.

For Shazam, the studio, writers, producers, etc., probably made a lot of changes from the comics in order to appeal to the general public. The character is not well known like Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman. I still may see the movie in the theaters as my local one has discount days on Wednesday. Admission is about $6.
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Ares
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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CaptainChaos wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:33 pm I was hopeful when I heard they were making this movie. I grew up reading the comics about the Marvel family and watched the 70's live action show on Saturday mornings. I am not a fan of characters gettinng powers in movies they didn't have in the comics or characters that don't act the way I feel they should. Unless I missed something sincevI have not read comics in years, I don't remember Captain Marvel/Shazam being able to throw lightning bolts.
That was one of the many new aspects Geoff Johns introduced when he created the new version of the character in 2011. Previously, the only way for Captain Marvel to hit someone with lightning was to use the Shazam lightning he uses to transform as a kind of last ditch final attack. The Power of Zeus was generally explained as something that augmented Cap's other abilities, improved them, and was a flexible hand-wave for some one-shot abilities.

The New 52 version of Shazam did away with the entire concept of SHAZAM being an acronym for Solomon, Hercules, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles and Mercury, and instead Shazam's power was due solely to "the magical Living Lightning" that was passed to him by The Wizard. He could fly and move at superspeed because lightning traveled through the air very fast. He could punch really hard because lightning did a lot of damage when it struck something. And he was invulnerable because the classic version was invulnerable and they didn't think this concept through very well. This also included the ability to shoot lightning from his hands.

So the version of the character the film is based on can shoot lightning from his hands. It's just that said version of the character is also not a very good representation of the classic version of the character.

Counter-intuitively, I don't like the idea of Captain Marvel being able to shoot lightning from his hands. A lot of fans would love the idea of their favorite character getting a power upgrade, and when I was younger I definitely would have thought "yeah, super lightning blasts are cool!" But as time went on I realized I preferred the idea of Captain Marvel being sort of an iconic flying brick, without a lot of extra abilities the way Thor or Superman sometimes do. I preferred Cap being more like mythological Hercules who had to be creative and clever in how he used his strength to solve a lot of problems. I do like the idea of lightning being incorporated into how he fights, but in something closer to Thor: Ragnarok, where you'd see him charge lightning around his fist for a kind of super punch, which does have precedent in the comic.

Making Captain Marvel into a flying brick with a ranged elemental attack just makes him more of a Superman clone. In fact, the Shazam movie costume in general feels like it was made to more closely resemble Superman's. The cape attaches to the costume via two clasps at the collar, the Shazam symbol now takes up the same space as Superman's S-Shield and is even bracketed inside a triangular geometric shape, the boots are standard flat superhero boots, etc.

It's one reason why I always preferred versions of Cap's costume as drawn by Alex Ross or in Superman/Shazam: The Return of Black Adam:

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I know I'm biased as heck, but I think the old 1940's serial costume shows that the jacket look works just fine.


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And I can at least give this costume a pass because Captain Marvel had only been published for a year and they were still figuring out his look. Give him the now classic Shazam symbol and tweak the cape a bit, and it looks fine. I even like the little collar they give the outfit so that the cape cord doesn't irritate Tom Tyler's neck. I kind of wish all of Cap's costumes incorporated a similar or more visible collar since it adds to the military theme and further differentiates the look from Superman.

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"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Voltron64
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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Ares wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:07 pm Counter-intuitively, I don't like the idea of Captain Marvel being able to shoot lightning from his hands. A lot of fans would love the idea of their favorite character getting a power upgrade, and when I was younger I definitely would have thought "yeah, super lightning blasts are cool!" But as time went on I realized I preferred the idea of Captain Marvel being sort of an iconic flying brick, without a lot of extra abilities the way Thor or Superman sometimes do. I preferred Cap being more like mythological Hercules who had to be creative and clever in how he used his strength to solve a lot of problems. I do like the idea of lightning being incorporated into how he fights, but in something closer to Thor: Ragnarok, where you'd see him charge lightning around his fist for a kind of super punch, which does have precedent in the comic.
I personally an okay with either the lightning blasts or thunder fists, plus him weaponizing the SHAZAM! thunder ala Kingdom Come (albiet for good).
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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Well, apparently they got me. I just discovered that Maurizio Merluzzo dubbed Zachary Levy for the Italian release. Maurizio is a pretty crazy guy and a hell of a voice actor (he also worked on his own movie, which came out last year), a few years ago I discovered that we have a few mutual friends. This is pretty much his first time dubbing a leading character, so I really want to acknowledge his dedication.

So despite my reservations, I'm going to watch Shazam although not immediately.
This is a short video of him meeting Zachary Levy at the London premiere (it's mostly in English, don't worry).
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Ares
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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That's a neat bit of trivia.

And despite my own reservations, I don't feel it's my place to tell people not to go see this film. It is likely going to be an entertaining and funny film about a this character who will be a hybrid of Tony Stark and Peter Parker, a snarky, quippy jerk who learns his lesson by the movies end. It's just not going to be a very good Captain Marvel film, which is why I feel I can't support it. Now maybe some reviews will come out that will change my mind and make me see it, but for now, not going to happen.

But kudos to your friend for making it into a big film.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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And because Alex Ross is the man, here's his tribute to everyone that ever shared the name Captain Marvel or could be said to be inspired by Cap. Titled, of all things, "Echoes of Shazam". No, I swear, I didn't pay him to do this.

Image
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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Some good reviews on Shazam so far RT has it certified fresh so things looking positive for the Captain
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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I’m 100% a card carrying member of the Billy Batson fanclub and I admit that my immediate, visceral reaction to seeing the 1st trailer was extremely negative: the costume and everything screamed nu52 incarnation and was a massive turn off.

I’ve since come around enough to decide to go see it this week, but yea, i hope it ends up being a decent superhero film (hell it may end up being a better Superman film than MoS) but i don’t expect it be a great Captain Marvel movie.
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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BlueBiscuit wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:41 am I’m 100% a card carrying member of the Billy Batson fanclub and I admit that my immediate, visceral reaction to seeing the 1st trailer was extremely negative: the costume and everything screamed nu52 incarnation and was a massive turn off.

I’ve since come around enough to decide to go see it this week, but yea, i hope it ends up being a decent superhero film (hell it may end up being a better Superman film than MoS) but i don’t expect it be a great Captain Marvel movie.
Always a pleasure to meet another fan. And more or less my thoughts exactly . . . just put way more succinctly than I can normally manage. I imagine this is going to be an entertaining film about someone who is a hybrid of Peter Parker and Tony Stark: a funny, relatable smartass who looks down on everyone and has problems connecting with others, but is really a decent person under it all who just needs to learn his lesson from the right circumstances / people.

It will probably be a fun film. It will also probably be a terrible Captain Marvel movie because there will be only surface level similarities to any of the characters, and Billy is suppose to be more of a cross between Steve Rogers and Peter rather than Tony.

My hope is that this will revitalize interest in Captain Marvel so that some writer who is a fan of the classic character might have a shot at bringing him back. My fear is that this will prove so popular that it will be the defining take on Cap and the Marvel Family for the next decade.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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has problems connecting with others, but is really a decent person under it all who just needs to learn his lesson from the right circumstances / people.
this seems to be the consensus of the reviewers so far. Billys lost and a bit cynical because of a hard life so far but the family seems to be breaking through to him when he becomes the Captain

Lots of praise for Zack levy with phrases like Born to play this role being thrown about
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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catsi563 wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:32 am
has problems connecting with others, but is really a decent person under it all who just needs to learn his lesson from the right circumstances / people.
this seems to be the consensus of the reviewers so far. Billys lost and a bit cynical because of a hard life so far but the family seems to be breaking through to him when he becomes the Captain

Lots of praise for Zack levy with phrases like Born to play this role being thrown about
Zachary Levi seems like a genuinely nice, funny guy, and his casting was not an issue I had with this film. I think he would have done just fine in portraying a more classic Cap.

From what I've heard, this movie is more or less what I expect it to be. It's going to be entertaining to folks who have no concept of Capt. Marvel, but if you're a Cap fan, you're likely going to hate the portrayal of the setting. Billy is an unlikable dingus to the point that there's no reason why Freddy wouldn't have been the superior pick, the Wizard is apparently portrayed as this creepy, tired old man who hands the power to Billy after a half-hearted "there's some good within you after all", etc. It's likely to do well, maybe even make Aquaman numbers, and like I said, there's no reason this kind of story shouldn't go well. But it's basically using Cap to tell a Miracle Man or Prime story.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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Friend of mine whose opinion on such matters I value saw Shazam and felt it was as good as Aquaman which he enjoyed immensely.

Sounds like a real positive sign for the Captains success this weekend looking forward to seeing it on tuesday
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Re: Captain Marvel trailer(original Captain Marvel)

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Just back from watching it, and I enjoyed very much. It definitely has parts I don't particularly like, some of them of its own making (the tone of the early scenes) and some of them are just because Curse of Shazam, the nu52 origin story for Shazam that this movie is based on, is not my idea of a good Shazam/Marvel story.

Still for all its faults I think that it is the best version of that story you could make while having it be recognisably the "modern" era Shazam, and actually very much feels like a Phase 1 MCU movie to me, like Aquaman did, which is to it's credit.

Zachary Levi did a bang up job, and as someone who hates that particular version of the Shazam costume, he was able to make me look past it through sheer likability
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