Captain Marvel Worries

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MacynSnow
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by MacynSnow » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm

Jabroniville wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:37 pm
Those who hate Shuri, hate life.

Shuri was a bit smug and annoying, but was clearly meant to be so in-universe- every time she said something, other characters would give that "REALLY?" look. Another part of her character was to show the less-serious, less-stoic part of Wakanda- watch how she repeatedly jabs at the stuffed shirt her super-serious brother has become. Everyone else was dutiful, Proud African Warrior-types, full of passion, duty, and more duty... Shuri was more of a snarky goofball type.

Sentry is, of course, the worst thing ever, and a great example of writers being bizarrely in love with a concept that nobody else cares about- "Superman Gone Mad" is not as interesting as some authors seem to think. It really just comes off like Marvel writers being jealous of DC's most epic character and wanting their own version.
They had one long before that Blonde Douchbag was even an idea.He went by the name Hyperion and he was a member of an Alternate Earth's Hero Team called The Squadron Supreme,so there wasn't even a Need for the guy...

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Batgirl III
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:50 pm

Sentry is a great example of my complaint — that I really need a pithy “Red Guardian Character” name for — about something being a great one-off storyline that becomes instantly stale and absolutely crap when made part of the ongoing continuity.

The original The Sentry miniseries was a fun, if mind-trippy, salute to Marvel’s Silver Age. With a few playful jabs at the Golden Age of the Distinguished Competition thrown in too. It was a well structured story with a definitive end.

But then they had to go and drag him into the mainstream. Ugh.
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Woodclaw
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Woodclaw » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:01 pm

MacynSnow wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm
Jabroniville wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:37 pm
Those who hate Shuri, hate life.

Shuri was a bit smug and annoying, but was clearly meant to be so in-universe- every time she said something, other characters would give that "REALLY?" look. Another part of her character was to show the less-serious, less-stoic part of Wakanda- watch how she repeatedly jabs at the stuffed shirt her super-serious brother has become. Everyone else was dutiful, Proud African Warrior-types, full of passion, duty, and more duty... Shuri was more of a snarky goofball type.

Sentry is, of course, the worst thing ever, and a great example of writers being bizarrely in love with a concept that nobody else cares about- "Superman Gone Mad" is not as interesting as some authors seem to think. It really just comes off like Marvel writers being jealous of DC's most epic character and wanting their own version.
They had one long before that Blonde Douchbag was even an idea.He went by the name Hyperion and he was a member of an Alternate Earth's Hero Team called The Squadron Supreme,so there wasn't even a Need for the guy...
The problem is that Hyperion was, still, Superman in terms of personality: a positive character that did whatever he could to help others.

Sentry was an attempt to make Super-edgier-man. It took the concept of Superman and removed what makes the character in my book: his -- for a lack of a better term -- humanity. I know there's plenty of gold and silver age stories, but in my book what defines Superman is that even without his powers Clark Kent would have been a hero. HAving Superpowers gave him a longer reach, but I can't really imagine a world where Clark as we know him would have been anything but a hero.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

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Ken
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ken » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:54 pm

Woodclaw wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:01 pm
MacynSnow wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm
They had one long before that Blonde Douchbag was even an idea.He went by the name Hyperion and he was a member of an Alternate Earth's Hero Team called The Squadron Supreme,so there wasn't even a Need for the guy...
The problem is that Hyperion was, still, Superman in terms of personality: a positive character that did whatever he could to help others.

Sentry was an attempt to make Super-edgier-man. It took the concept of Superman and removed what makes the character in my book: his -- for a lack of a better term -- humanity. I know there's plenty of gold and silver age stories, but in my book what defines Superman is that even without his powers Clark Kent would have been a hero. HAving Superpowers gave him a longer reach, but I can't really imagine a world where Clark as we know him would have been anything but a hero.
Have you seen Zack Snyder's films?
Does a Winnie poo in the 100-acre wood?

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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ken » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:55 pm

Shock wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:34 pm
Ken wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:28 pm
I think a lot is going to ride on how they write Billy. If Billy Batson is a heroic kid, like he was for most of the past 78 years, I think the movie will do all right. If they make him the little shit that he became when they started the Nu-52, the film will have problems.
Wrong movie Ken :D
You worry about your Captain Marvel; I'll worry about mine. ;)
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Woodclaw
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Woodclaw » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:06 pm

Ken wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:54 pm
Woodclaw wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:01 pm
MacynSnow wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm
They had one long before that Blonde Douchbag was even an idea.He went by the name Hyperion and he was a member of an Alternate Earth's Hero Team called The Squadron Supreme,so there wasn't even a Need for the guy...
The problem is that Hyperion was, still, Superman in terms of personality: a positive character that did whatever he could to help others.

Sentry was an attempt to make Super-edgier-man. It took the concept of Superman and removed what makes the character in my book: his -- for a lack of a better term -- humanity. I know there's plenty of gold and silver age stories, but in my book what defines Superman is that even without his powers Clark Kent would have been a hero. HAving Superpowers gave him a longer reach, but I can't really imagine a world where Clark as we know him would have been anything but a hero.
Have you seen Zack Snyder's films?
Yes and while there are a few positives I despise the basic premise.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

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Ares
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ares » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:10 pm

Ken wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:55 pm
Shock wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:34 pm
Ken wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:28 pm
I think a lot is going to ride on how they write Billy. If Billy Batson is a heroic kid, like he was for most of the past 78 years, I think the movie will do all right. If they make him the little shit that he became when they started the Nu-52, the film will have problems.
Wrong movie Ken :D
You worry about your Captain Marvel; I'll worry about mine. ;)
You're doing the Wizard's work.

greycrusader
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by greycrusader » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:55 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:50 pm
Sentry is a great example of my complaint — that I really need a pithy “Red Guardian Character” name for — about something being a great one-off storyline that becomes instantly stale and absolutely crap when made part of the ongoing continuity.

The original The Sentry miniseries was a fun, if mind-trippy, salute to Marvel’s Silver Age. With a few playful jabs at the Golden Age of the Distinguished Competition thrown in too. It was a well structured story with a definitive end.

But then they had to go and drag him into the mainstream. Ugh.
Yeah, this. The whole point of the Sentry mini was how Silver Age Superman really doesn't fit into Marvel comics-though there was ALSO some not-so-subtle jabs at Marvel itself (the old "biting the hand" bit), given how often the character stagnation and repetitive angst was called out, with the Sentry noting how Spider-Man, the Hulk, and the X-Men all seemed stuck, never developing past the point where he was erased from history. And the somewhat open-ended finale was solid too, just enough left up to the readers' imaginations. But then they JUST. KEPT. GOING.

Of course, DC can't let go of the Watchmen characters, for cripes' sake, seemingly not even realizing they don't belong in a miniseries which includes Johnny Thunder and Saturn Girl!!!!

All my,...no, cannot muster it.

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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ken » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:38 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:50 pm
Sentry is a great example of my complaint — that I really need a pithy “Red Guardian Character” name for — about something being a great one-off storyline that becomes instantly stale and absolutely crap when made part of the ongoing continuity.
greycrusader wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:55 pm
Of course, DC can't let go of the Watchmen characters, for cripes' sake, seemingly not even realizing they don't belong in a miniseries which includes Johnny Thunder and Saturn Girl!!!!
Rorschaching!!

"Sentry is a great example of rorschaching."
Does a Winnie poo in the 100-acre wood?

Jabroniville
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:27 am

"Sentry Syndrome"?

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Batgirl III
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 am

“Hush Up”?
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MacynSnow
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by MacynSnow » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:31 am

"Starman'd"?

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Ares
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ares » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:52 am

"Hawked"

That was my first exposure to that kind of phenomena. Hawkworld was a mini-series written in the late 80's about an alternate take on Thanagar, the world of Hawkman and Hawkgirl. It was apparently very well received, though it was set in its own "Elseworlds" continuity. Unfortunately, it proved so popular that DC decided "Hey, lets make it the new history for Hawkman and Hawkgirl, and launch a monthly book based on it". Problem was, they made it so these new Hawks just arrived on Earth, creating the first instance of the continuity nightmare that would become the Hawk books for years, until JSA fixed them all.

So when this happens now, the person got "Hawked".

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Batgirl III
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:15 am

“Miniseries Masterpiece, Obnoxiously Ongoing.”
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Ken
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ken » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:48 am

Ares wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:52 am
"Hawked"

That was my first exposure to that kind of phenomena. Hawkworld was a mini-series written in the late 80's about an alternate take on Thanagar, the world of Hawkman and Hawkgirl. It was apparently very well received, though it was set in its own "Elseworlds" continuity. Unfortunately, it proved so popular that DC decided "Hey, lets make it the new history for Hawkman and Hawkgirl, and launch a monthly book based on it". Problem was, they made it so these new Hawks just arrived on Earth, creating the first instance of the continuity nightmare that would become the Hawk books for years, until JSA fixed them all.

So when this happens now, the person got "Hawked".
Actually, the Hawkworld mini was intended to be a set before Brave & the Bold #34, and if it had allowed to just add depth to what we already knew of Thanagar and had been set when the author intended, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal. It was when they launched the monthly book set a right after the mini and in the then current DC Universe it became a continuity snarl.
Does a Winnie poo in the 100-acre wood?

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