Captain Marvel Worries

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Batgirl III
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:00 am

My husband has been a massive fan of Madeleine L’Engle since he was a little girl (past tense is tricky) despite the author’s explicitly Christian apologetics mission, it was one of the few fantasy books she could read in her all girls Orthodox Jewish school. (Helped in this by no one in the faculty having ever read it except for her mom, a convert from the Quaker faith who introduced her children to it, alongside Tolkien).

He bought our oldest daughter (a voracious reader who adores fantasy) the complete series this past Christmakkuh as preparation for going to see the movie when it came out. My husband generally hates watching movies in the theater, BTW, the last thing he saw in a proper movie theater was Finding Nemo and I had to literally beg him. Which is why I was shocked when he was out of the state during the opening weekend of the film and went to see it anyway! By himself!

He sent me a terse six word text later that night: “Saw movie. Trash. Won’t take kids.”

Seriously. He is more angry at this film than anyone I have ever known has been angry at a film... And given the nerdy circles I move in and the capacity for certain movies to invoke NERDRAEG!!! that’s saying something.
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MacynSnow
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by MacynSnow » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:10 am

I can honestly sympathize with him,as i've had an On/Off Relationship with Stephen King and his movies/books for years...
For instance, i loved the Silver Bullet movie,but absolutely LOATHED the written story version.It was the exact opposite way with Tommyknockers...you'd be honestly suprised at how angry Book-nerds can get when Hollywood gives the bird to their favorite Book Series.Why do you think there's been no more Percy Jackson movies after the Second one... ;)

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M4C8
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by M4C8 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:44 pm

MacynSnow wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:55 am
You know,i never thought i'd be GLAD to have Corporate oversight in the superhero movie genre.Part of me just hopes we don't have the "Parker Curse" with this one,as we're due for at least one bad movie soon....
I've not yet see Black Panther yet so I don't know how it holds up as a movie beyond the politics that surrounded it. Aside from the last Hulk movie (Which I don't count as part of the MCU even though it technically is) the only MCU movie that I've been disappointed with is Spider-Man: Homecoming. Spidey is one of my two all time favourite characters and I even loved him in CA:Civil War, I just found Homecoming to be 'Meh'...
Not that it was terrible or even bad but I've seen it a couple of times and have not real desire to see it again (similar to how I feel about most DC movies) whereas I'll happily sit through all the other MCU movies again and again.
I genuinely hope that Captain Marvel will be a good movie, that it can stand on it's own as a movie regardless of the politics.
On a personal note I'm a bit worried about the 'She's the most powerful hero in the MCU' line that I keep reading, she should be powerful but not more than Thor or Hulk.

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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ken » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:28 pm

I think a lot is going to ride on how they write Billy. If Billy Batson is a heroic kid, like he was for most of the past 78 years, I think the movie will do all right. If they make him the little shit that he became when they started the Nu-52, the film will have problems.
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Shock » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:34 pm

Ken wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:28 pm
I think a lot is going to ride on how they write Billy. If Billy Batson is a heroic kid, like he was for most of the past 78 years, I think the movie will do all right. If they make him the little shit that he became when they started the Nu-52, the film will have problems.
Wrong movie Ken :D

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HalloweenJack
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by HalloweenJack » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:51 pm

he knows what he's doing.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:16 pm

M4C8 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:44 pm
I've not yet see Black Panther yet so I don't know how it holds up as a movie beyond the politics that surrounded it.
It holds up just fine. It doesn’t shy away from politics (which wouldn’t be true to the character) but it also doesn’t run the audiences nose in them (which wouldn’t be true to the character either). It’s a solid superhero movie, with a slightly rushed Act III and a somewhat forced sequel hook in the denouement... But, hey, that’s 99.9% of superhero movies.

A lot of people seem to hate the Unlikably Smug Bratty Little Sister character for being an unlikably smug brat. But, y’know, that’s kind of the point. So I don’t understand that critique...

The CGI is bizarrely obvious and stiff in a few scenes. Like Toby McGuire Spider-Man levels. Didn’t bother me much but some people are a lot more sensitive to such tings and it broke their suspension of disbelief.
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Ares
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ares » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:30 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:16 pm
A lot of people seem to hate the Unlikably Smug Bratty Little Sister character for being an unlikably smug brat. But, y’know, that’s kind of the point. So I don’t understand that critique...
Just because a character is exactly what the creator set out to make them doesn't mean the audience can't dislike them for those very reasons. It's like how the creator of Triumph said "The whole point of Triumph was to be 'that guy who was always right', and who was suppose to be an unlikable jerk". Well congratulations, you made an unlikable jerk, and nobody likes him. Why are you surprised?

If you create a character who is intentionally unlikable, they either need to have some kind of redeeming factors, they need to be humbled regularly for cathartic/humorous purposes, you need them to quickly have a character art, or they need to at least be entertaining. Like, Dragon Ball Z Abridged Vegita is a HUGE asshole, arrogant, condescending, etc. . . . but he's also entertaining, both in what he says, his occasional moments of being a badass, and his numerous times suffering for his arrogance.

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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:56 pm

Only if the character is supposed to be redeemable.

Walter Peck, the smug unlikable EPA inspector from Ghostbusters has no redemption arc or redeeming characteristics... People hate him, but they kind of understand they’re not supposed to like him.

Shuri is written as a smug brat, acted as a smug brat, and the audience reaction to her is that she’s a smug brat. Critics who point out her smug brattiness seem confused as to why she’s a smug brat... and then the SJWs pounce on the critic who dated criticize her for being an –ism or an –ist.

(For what it’s worth, I enjoyed Shuri. I like the snarky smug brat whose willing to tweak the nose of the hero whilst she supports him. She reminds me of Alfred, Jarvis, and Xander.)
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Ares » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:29 pm

Walter Peck also gets humiliated and shown up, which is a point I mentioned. He's also an antagonist, as opposed to a protagonist or supporting character.

And Alfred, Jarvis, and Xander are a bit different in that while they snark at the heroes, the hero they're snarking at often has an ego or self-destructive personality traits that necessitates a good humbling, and all three have these overtones of support for said hero that is virtually palpable.

You'll also note I never said I had a problem with Shuri myself. I actually found her infinitely more likable than her comics counterpart, and they gave her an actual purpose as this sidekick tech genius with a bit of a chip on her shoulder.

All I'm just saying is that a character being specifically designed to be X does not in any way prevent someone from disliking them for X. It's like when Jeph Loeb re-introduced Supergirl to the DCU.

Jeph: "What's wrong with her?"
Fans: "You made her a borderline insane bitch who spends most of her time beating up other heroes!"
Jeph: "I made her that way on purpose!"
Fans: "Congratulations, you made something terrible on purpose rather than on accident."

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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by M4C8 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:08 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:16 pm
M4C8 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:44 pm
I've not yet see Black Panther yet so I don't know how it holds up as a movie beyond the politics that surrounded it.
It holds up just fine. It doesn’t shy away from politics (which wouldn’t be true to the character) but it also doesn’t run the audiences nose in them (which wouldn’t be true to the character either). It’s a solid superhero movie, with a slightly rushed Act III and a somewhat forced sequel hook in the denouement... But, hey, that’s 99.9% of superhero movies.

A lot of people seem to hate the Unlikably Smug Bratty Little Sister character for being an unlikably smug brat. But, y’know, that’s kind of the point. So I don’t understand that critique...

The CGI is bizarrely obvious and stiff in a few scenes. Like Toby McGuire Spider-Man levels. Didn’t bother me much but some people are a lot more sensitive to such tings and it broke their suspension of disbelief.
Ah thanks, I'll be getting it on DVD at some point like all the other movies, I just haven't got around to it yet.
The one clip I have seen was Shuri saying to Everett Ross 'Don't scare me like that colonizer', I remember thinking 'Wow, that's a bit much, I hope he calls her out over it'

The negatives about the movie I've seen are pretty much what has already been said here such as bad looking CGI. There's apparently a ridiculous notion that Wakanda is what Africa could have been without European interference, yeah right :roll:
The problem with Shuri was mainly what Jab has often pointed out with the diversity characters in the comics, it's not that she was intelligent that people had an issue with it's that to make her look intelligent she had to 'show up' the established characters making them look stupid in comparison.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:23 pm

M4C8 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:08 pm
Ah thanks, I'll be getting it on DVD at some point like all the other movies, I just haven't got around to it yet.
The one clip I have seen was Shuri saying to Everett Ross 'Don't scare me like that colonizer', I remember thinking 'Wow, that's a bit much, I hope he calls her out over it'
He does not... Which, to be fair, is pretty much in keeping with Ross's milquetoast persona. Several of the Wakandans use "colonizer" as a somewhat mildly derogatory shorthand for 'people who aren't from Wakanda and probably aren't even from Africa.' T'Challa himself never does it and neither do I remember anyone in the Royal Family (except Shuri) or the Royal Court using the term. It's meant to sound kind of shocking and provocative, not too dissimilar to the way a Japanese teenager might toss around the word "gaijin" or a native Hawaiian might use "haole."

It's actually kind of refreshing to see the Wakandans being less than perfect people. Let's face it, the place is an Afro-Futurist Hidden Elf Village of Crystal Spires and Togas, built on a literal mountain of Unobtainium, and run by the goddamn [s]Batman[/s] Black Panther. The potential for Wakanda to be written as a Marysuetopia is off the charts. Instead, we got a royal family that clearly loves each other but isn't above squabbling and teasing each other, palace intrigue, inter-tribal power politics, and even a few otherwise Lawful Good people using mildly racist slurs in casual conversation.

I'm half-convinced the only reason some of the SJWs like Black Panther is because they never actually watched it.
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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by M4C8 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:23 pm

William Atherton playing both Walter Peck in Ghostbusters and Richard Thornburg in Die Hard 1 and 2 mean't I viewed him as the embodiment of douchbaggery when I was a kid.

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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by M4C8 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:35 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:23 pm
M4C8 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:08 pm
Ah thanks, I'll be getting it on DVD at some point like all the other movies, I just haven't got around to it yet.
The one clip I have seen was Shuri saying to Everett Ross 'Don't scare me like that colonizer', I remember thinking 'Wow, that's a bit much, I hope he calls her out over it'
He does not... Which, to be fair, is pretty much in keeping with Ross's milquetoast persona. Several of the Wakandans use "colonizer" as a somewhat mildly derogatory shorthand for 'people who aren't from Wakanda and probably aren't even from Africa.' T'Challa himself never does it and neither do I remember anyone in the Royal Family (except Shuri) or the Royal Court using the term. It's meant to sound kind of shocking and provocative, not too dissimilar to the way a Japanese teenager might toss around the word "gaijin" or a native Hawaiian might use "haole."

It's actually kind of refreshing to see the Wakandans being less than perfect people. Let's face it, the place is an Afro-Futurist Hidden Elf Village of Crystal Spires and Togas, built on a literal mountain of Unobtainium, and run by the goddamn [s]Batman[/s] Black Panther. The potential for Wakanda to be written as a Marysuetopia is off the charts. Instead, we got a royal family that clearly loves each other but isn't above squabbling and teasing each other, palace intrigue, inter-tribal power politics, and even a few otherwise Lawful Good people using mildly racist slurs in casual conversation.

I'm half-convinced the only reason some of the SJWs like Black Panther is because they never actually watched it.
I have read similar comments on how most SJW's seem to miss that the movie does show Wakanda as not being the heroic African nation they all want it to be, the insular nature of the Wakandans meant they pretty much just ignored the plight of the rest of the African continent and that all their wealth and advancements is due to the luck of having the Vibranium meteorite land in their country.

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Re: Captain Marvel Worries

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:45 pm

Which is especially hilarious as that is entire plot of the gorram movie!
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