Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Batgirl III
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Batgirl III »

I've only read a handful of Star Wars novels; the Thrawn Trilogy, the Shadows of the Empire novelization, some forgettable drek about a Hutt building a Death Star shaped like a lightsabre... Maybe one or two more. I find that far too much of the SW just retreads the plots of the movies (which already repeat themselves).

I really don't grok how every event in a civilization that spans an entire galaxy and has ten thousand years of recorded history always seems to be connected to the dysfunctional family squabbles of one emotionally crippled space-wizard, his estranged son, and even more emotionally crippled grandson.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a Space Opera, they're the protagonists. I get why the events of two (maybe three) interstellar civil wars all revolve around them. That's fine and operatic. I can suspend my disbelief just fine to believe while reading The Iliad that the entire Achaean-Mycenaean actually revolves around Helen, Paris, Ajax, Hector, and Achilles. I can suspend my disbelief, watch Kingdom of Heaven, and believe that the Crusades were lost because Balian d'Ibelin was too honorable to take another man's wife... But, when we're talking about spin-off works in an "Expanded Universe," why does everything always seem to connect to these three generations of Skywalkers!?

The 1990s Dark Horse series Tales of the Jedi: Knights of the Old Republic is set something like 4,000 or 5,000 years before the 1977 Star Wars film... But, of course, the heroes and villains are all directly connected to the Skywalkers, Palpatine, and the like. This would be like learning that Achilles was the great-great-(etc)-grandfather of Dwight Eisenhower, Agamemmnon was the guy who trained the guy who trained the guy who Erwin Rommel, and that's why the Allies won WWII.

I enjoyed Rogue One, despite it retreading a lot of the ground covered by the original films, because it told the story in a unique way and it didn't all that have much to do with the damned space-wizards and their family feud. I plan to see Solo in a week or two, I'm hoping its at least as uniquely its own story as Rogue One.

If we can just spit-ball our own ideas, I'd really like to see a SW-style An Officer and a Gentleman or Top Gun. Something about these giant military organizations that have mostly served as set dressing for the Skywalker family dysfunction kabuki. Hell, maybe really blow peoples minds and give us a Band of Brothers or Our World War mini-series that follows a group of Storm Troopers from the start to finish of the conflict.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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That's always been the beauty of Star Wars: while it's a sci-fi setting, it clearly takes its cues from other stuff George Lucas loved growing up: Westerns, World War II films, Kurosawa Samurai films, Flash Gordon film serials, Arthurian Lore, Eastern philosophy, etc. I love the concept of the Jedi and feel they should be integral to the main Star Wars film series, but that you can have side-stories without Jedi, Sith or the Force ever being mentioned. In fact, aside from one thing, the Force and the Jedi are never mentioned once in Solo.

The Star Wars franchise has itself been doing that for years. The Rogue Squadron book series focused on the non-Jedi squadron of X-Wing pilots as they took on the Empire, essentially being equal parts Top Gun and Mission: Impossible. And like I mentioned, Scoundrels was a heist story whose only inclusion of Jedi was that one of the crooks had a slowly malfunctioning lightsaber that they had stolen and used in their schemes.

Beyond that, the Clone Wars animated series frequently featured homages to non-Jedi material, such as Cad Bane being an obvious Western-style bounty hunter and several episodes focusing exclusively on the Clone Troopers, doing standard soldier work.

Given that the Rebels were a resistance group, the idea of a Rebel/New Republic Secret Spy group running missions on the Empire James Bond style would be fun as well.

Supposedly there'll be a Boba Fett film, and really, a movie about a badass Bounty Hunter going after a powerful mark makes for a good movie. Imagine John Wick in space.

There were also multiple Force traditions in Star Wars, where not everyone was a Jedi or a Sith. You had folks that tapped into the Force using rituals and spells, using Force akin to magic. Likewise, you had martial artists who could use training to tap into their personal Force energies to achieve impressive feats. Some Force Traditions viewed the Force as a spectrum of energy, and could actually do things like warp space and teleport. While the Jedi and Sith were the most powerful and prominent groups, they weren't the only ones.

Hell, I'd love to see a Star Wars movie that let a Teras Kasi master go around doing stuff like this:

Image

Donnie Yen beating up a squad of Storm Troopers was a good start, but lets see some more wuxia action. Hell, if anything I feel the Prequel Films underplayed what a master Jedi should be capable of.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by danelsan »

It is perhaps worth of note, in regards to everything revolving around the Skywalker family, that it has been mentioned that the next main story, post episode IX, would be unrelated. Personally, I'm hoping for some Old Republic, particularly if they manage to make good movie adaptations out of the KotOR franchise. A friend of mine who loves Star Wars as much as me or even more, but sucks at English, probably would enjoy that very much).

(that said, if people consider Rey a mary sue, Revan and the Exile will need a new category XD)
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Supposedly there'll be a Boba Fett film, and really, a movie about a badass Bounty Hunter going after a powerful mark makes for a good movie. Imagine John Wick in space.
That's another thing that's always confused me about the Star Wars fandom: the love they have for Boba Fett.

He has one fight scene. It lasts less than 30 seconds. I just re-watched it on YouTube.

He has a friggin' blaster carbine, but instead of shooting at his mark from a about 50-60 yards away, he jumps (0:02) into mêlée range of a guy with a lightsabre and promptly (0:06) gets his gun chopped in half. He then stands stock still and throws a rope around the lightsabre-user (0:12). But he doesn't move. Luke cuts himself free immediately (0:14). Boba gets knocked over when an errant shot from an ally rocks the boat (0:16) and he takes ten second to get back up (0:26). A blind Han ignites his rocket pack by accident (0:34) in a comedy move straight out of The Three Stooges... and he cannot control his flight, for some reason, so he just Wilhelm screams and crashes into the side of the big boat (0:38). Before tumbling ass over elbows into the mouth of an alien creature that cannot move.

But, y'know, holy shit did he look awesome in the scene in the bad guy bar when he nodded.

This guy is the John Wick / James Bond / Bruce Wayne / Chuck Norris / John McClane / [ Insert Ultimate Badass of Choice Here ] of the entire Star Wars fandom? I'm sorry, but what. the. hell. There are unnamed Ewok extras that have better fight scenes than this dweeb.

(And don't go feeding me that "In the novels he lived and..." crap. That's an obvious bit of pandering written sixteen years after the film in which Fett was killed by a The Three Stooges shtick. He'd become popular with the fans in the intervening years and so they retcon'd it. He's just some dweeb in the films, who wears a cool costume and dies as a joke.)
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Batgirl III wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:27 am
Supposedly there'll be a Boba Fett film, and really, a movie about a badass Bounty Hunter going after a powerful mark makes for a good movie. Imagine John Wick in space.
That's another thing that's always confused me about the Star Wars fandom: the love they have for Boba Fett.

He has one fight scene. It lasts less than 30 seconds. I just re-watched it on YouTube.

He has a friggin' blaster carbine, but instead of shooting at his mark from a about 50-60 yards away, he jumps (0:02) into mêlée range of a guy with a lightsabre and promptly (0:06) gets his gun chopped in half. He then stands stock still and throws a rope around the lightsabre-user (0:12). But he doesn't move. Luke cuts himself free immediately (0:14). Boba gets knocked over when an errant shot from an ally rocks the boat (0:16) and he takes ten second to get back up (0:26). A blind Han ignites his rocket pack by accident (0:34) in a comedy move straight out of The Three Stooges... and he cannot control his flight, for some reason, so he just Wilhelm screams and crashes into the side of the big boat (0:38). Before tumbling ass over elbows into the mouth of an alien creature that cannot move.

But, y'know, holy shit did he look awesome in the scene in the bad guy bar when he nodded.

This guy is the John Wick / James Bond / Bruce Wayne / Chuck Norris / John McClane / [ Insert Ultimate Badass of Choice Here ] of the entire Star Wars fandom? I'm sorry, but what. the. hell. There are unnamed Ewok extras that have better fight scenes than this dweeb.

(And don't go feeding me that "In the novels he lived and..." crap. That's an obvious bit of pandering written sixteen years after the film in which Fett was killed by a The Three Stooges shtick. He'd become popular with the fans in the intervening years and so they retcon'd it. He's just some dweeb in the films, who wears a cool costume and dies as a joke.)
Boba Fett was popular with the Star Wars fans initially because of a few things.

1) He looked AWESOME. In a setting with a ton of cool people, interesting aliens and fantastic concepts, Boba Fett looked cool.

2) He was competent. The entire Empire and every other Bounty Hunter Vader could assemble can't figure out how to track or find Han Solo. Fett is the only one who not only figures out where they are and how to track them, but did so in a ridiculously short amount of time. He was good at his job, got his prize, got paid and got away. He won.

3) He had presence. Which is to say, he had some serious balls. In a movie where Vader is killing off underlings for failing him (because he's trying to find his son, and their constant failures are just pissing him off), Fett was the only guy who could talk back to Vader and not get killed for it. And he does this several times. He was not afraid to stand up to Darth Vader himself, and that's saying something.

As for Return of the Jedi, he was the only one in Jabba's entire group that actually managed to hold his own against Luke. His reasoning for jet-packing over to Luke was likely for the reasons we saw later when that Biker Scout opened fire on Luke: Luke would have simply deflected the shots. And given from what we saw of a younger Fett, that fits. Luke had just killed the last guard, so he wasn't distracted, any blaster fire sent his way would have probably been been useless.

So he got in close where any of his dozen or so weapons might have been better against a Jedi, and Luke slices his gun. After which Fett wraps Luke up with a cable, which actually had Luke at a disadvantage. If he'd been able to hit Luke with any other weapon he had, it might have been over. But one of Jabba's goons fires and hits Fett instead, knocking him down and allowing Luke to get free. After that, when he gets up, he sees Luke is engaged with another group of Jabba goons on another boat, and is actually distracted. So he uses the arm blaster to try and hit Luke, which is when Han Crits his attack roll, and Fett is sent flying into the Sarlac pit, which he eventually escapes from.

So, even in a movie where his dialogue was "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" as his jetpack malfunctions thanks to Solo luck, Fett did a decent job of fighting a Jedi.

I will be the first to admit that Fett's initial popularity was due primarily to a solid design, and his dialogue in the original trilogy consisted of:

- As you wish.
- He's no good to me dead.
- What if he doesn't make it? He's worth a lot of money to me.
- Put Captain Solo in the cargo hold.

And last, but not least:

- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

But for a minor character he at least did enough to cement the popularity his look gave him, and later writers fleshed him out a bit more, and made him live up to the hype.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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You have a very different definition of “hold his own against Luke” than I do...
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Batgirl III wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:21 am You have a very different definition of “hold his own against Luke” than I do...
Boba Fett's "fight" with Luke consisted of

-Fett flies over.
-Luke destroys Fetts gun.
-Fett takes advantage of Luke being distracted to incapacitate Luke.
-Fett gets shot by the poor aim of someone allowing for Luke to get free.
-Luke goes deal with other of Jabbas men.
-Fett prepares to fire on Luke, and then Han gets his crit.

It was a brief back and forth, but it was an even back and forth. Unlike everyone else Luke fought with a lightsaber in that movie, Fett survive and even had Luke at a disadvantage (he didn't have his lightsaber against the Rancor and Palpatine).
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Ares wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:58 am
Batgirl III wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:27 am
Supposedly there'll be a Boba Fett film, and really, a movie about a badass Bounty Hunter going after a powerful mark makes for a good movie. Imagine John Wick in space.
That's another thing that's always confused me about the Star Wars fandom: the love they have for Boba Fett.

He has one fight scene. It lasts less than 30 seconds. I just re-watched it on YouTube.

He has a friggin' blaster carbine, but instead of shooting at his mark from a about 50-60 yards away, he jumps (0:02) into mêlée range of a guy with a lightsabre and promptly (0:06) gets his gun chopped in half. He then stands stock still and throws a rope around the lightsabre-user (0:12). But he doesn't move. Luke cuts himself free immediately (0:14). Boba gets knocked over when an errant shot from an ally rocks the boat (0:16) and he takes ten second to get back up (0:26). A blind Han ignites his rocket pack by accident (0:34) in a comedy move straight out of The Three Stooges... and he cannot control his flight, for some reason, so he just Wilhelm screams and crashes into the side of the big boat (0:38). Before tumbling ass over elbows into the mouth of an alien creature that cannot move.

But, y'know, holy shit did he look awesome in the scene in the bad guy bar when he nodded.

This guy is the John Wick / James Bond / Bruce Wayne / Chuck Norris / John McClane / [ Insert Ultimate Badass of Choice Here ] of the entire Star Wars fandom? I'm sorry, but what. the. hell. There are unnamed Ewok extras that have better fight scenes than this dweeb.

(And don't go feeding me that "In the novels he lived and..." crap. That's an obvious bit of pandering written sixteen years after the film in which Fett was killed by a The Three Stooges shtick. He'd become popular with the fans in the intervening years and so they retcon'd it. He's just some dweeb in the films, who wears a cool costume and dies as a joke.)
Boba Fett was popular with the Star Wars fans initially because of a few things.

1) He looked AWESOME. In a setting with a ton of cool people, interesting aliens and fantastic concepts, Boba Fett looked cool.

2) He was competent. The entire Empire and every other Bounty Hunter Vader could assemble can't figure out how to track or find Han Solo. Fett is the only one who not only figures out where they are and how to track them, but did so in a ridiculously short amount of time. He was good at his job, got his prize, got paid and got away. He won.

3) He had presence. Which is to say, he had some serious balls. In a movie where Vader is killing off underlings for failing him (because he's trying to find his son, and their constant failures are just pissing him off), Fett was the only guy who could talk back to Vader and not get killed for it. And he does this several times. He was not afraid to stand up to Darth Vader himself, and that's saying something.

As for Return of the Jedi, he was the only one in Jabba's entire group that actually managed to hold his own against Luke. His reasoning for jet-packing over to Luke was likely for the reasons we saw later when that Biker Scout opened fire on Luke: Luke would have simply deflected the shots. And given from what we saw of a younger Fett, that fits. Luke had just killed the last guard, so he wasn't distracted, any blaster fire sent his way would have probably been been useless.

So he got in close where any of his dozen or so weapons might have been better against a Jedi, and Luke slices his gun. After which Fett wraps Luke up with a cable, which actually had Luke at a disadvantage. If he'd been able to hit Luke with any other weapon he had, it might have been over. But one of Jabba's goons fires and hits Fett instead, knocking him down and allowing Luke to get free. After that, when he gets up, he sees Luke is engaged with another group of Jabba goons on another boat, and is actually distracted. So he uses the arm blaster to try and hit Luke, which is when Han Crits his attack roll, and Fett is sent flying into the Sarlac pit, which he eventually escapes from.

So, even in a movie where his dialogue was "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" as his jetpack malfunctions thanks to Solo luck, Fett did a decent job of fighting a Jedi.

I will be the first to admit that Fett's initial popularity was due primarily to a solid design, and his dialogue in the original trilogy consisted of:

- As you wish.
- He's no good to me dead.
- What if he doesn't make it? He's worth a lot of money to me.
- Put Captain Solo in the cargo hold.

And last, but not least:

- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

But for a minor character he at least did enough to cement the popularity his look gave him, and later writers fleshed him out a bit more, and made him live up to the hype.
I think there was also a #4.

Back in the day Bobe Fett was special because Kenner (who hold the license to Star Wars toys) didn't release the action figure dirently, the only way to get a Boba Fett figure was to buy other 5 character and mail the bar codes to Kenner (or their local subsidiary). This made the Boba Fett toy something of a legend, a status symbol: you have a Boba Fett, suddenly you were like the coolest kid of the school.

Plus there's one more element, around 1986 the Star Wars brand was starting to fade away and the West End Games sealed a deal to make a Star Wars RPG for very little money. They introduced the idea of the Mandalorians as an entire culture of bounty hunters and mercenaries based on Boba Fett's design that were somewhat extraneous to the main conflict. Of course the idea appealed to a number of players and all of the sudden playing the Mandalorian became an easy way to tell Star Wars stories unrelated to the main plotline. In short Boba Fett opened up the chance to do something different with the setting.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Batgirl III wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:29 am I've only read a handful of Star Wars novels; the Thrawn Trilogy, the Shadows of the Empire novelization, some forgettable drek about a Hutt building a Death Star shaped like a lightsabre... Maybe one or two more. I find that far too much of the SW just retreads the plots of the movies (which already repeat themselves).
Darksaber. The "drek about a Hutt building a Death Star shaped like a lightsabre". That was the book that got me to STOP reading the Star Wars novels. The Thrawn Trilogy got me started. And I was in. And, yeah, I observed some of the same problems. But when I got to Darksaber, I got somewhere between a quarter and a third of the way in and I said "f--k this." I came back for the Zahn's two novels that bookended the Thrawn trilogy, but. Damn. I've been down on Kevin J. Anderson ever since.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Ares wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:58 am I will be the first to admit that Fett's initial popularity was due primarily to a solid design, and his dialogue in the original trilogy consisted of:

- As you wish.
- He's no good to me dead.
- What if he doesn't make it? He's worth a lot of money to me.
- Put Captain Solo in the cargo hold.

And last, but not least:

- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

But for a minor character he at least did enough to cement the popularity his look gave him, and later writers fleshed him out a bit more, and made him live up to the hype.
One of those made my five-year old niece comment that "oh, he really loves Darth Vader."

I guess it's a meme out there too, but Ana is only 5. She doesn't meme.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Ken wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:07 pm
Ares wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:58 am I will be the first to admit that Fett's initial popularity was due primarily to a solid design, and his dialogue in the original trilogy consisted of:

- As you wish.
- He's no good to me dead.
- What if he doesn't make it? He's worth a lot of money to me.
- Put Captain Solo in the cargo hold.

And last, but not least:

- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

But for a minor character he at least did enough to cement the popularity his look gave him, and later writers fleshed him out a bit more, and made him live up to the hype.
One of those made my five-year old niece comment that "oh, he really loves Darth Vader."

I guess it's a meme out there too, but Ana is only 5. She doesn't meme.
It really looks like she does to me :P ;)
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Image
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Ares wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:16 pm Image
And saved.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Jabroniville »

I pointed out in my Boba Fett build that he was pretty much a jobber given this HUGE expanded backstory, and yeah, I find it (and him) ridiculous. Largely because like most people who watched Star Wars I just found him to be a "Named Mook" with a decent look, and was irked when I met some big-time fans of the novels who were basically whipping it out and jerking off every time Mandalorians or Boba Fett got mentioned. "Oh, and his FATHER, Jango, was so bad-ass, too *FAP FAP FAP FAP*", "Oh, he SURVIVED the Sarlacc Pit and went on to have SO MANY MORE MISSIONS *jerk jerk jerk jerk*", etc. I felt it so obnoxious and weird, particularly because the guy never did anything bad-ass in the films, and died in a hilarious way. It was just so Fanwank-y.

Personally, I've seen no real reason to watch Solo, but I might if friends drag me to it. People on the net are blaming the disappointing box office on either/or "Star Wars Fatigue" (because of too many movies in too short a time) and "The Last Jedi Backlash", to the point where even Disney Theme Parks blogs are getting hit by it, as the "Official Line" is closer to "Star Wars Fatigue" while hardcore anti-TJLers are saying "They're just using that to save (woman in charge of part of the franchise, whom we hate)'s job!".

But honestly... there's only 2 or 3 "Power Sets" in the entire universe of Star Wars. It's all Space Battles, Force Powers (95% of which are just repeated in every character) and Laser Battles. It's hard to make ENDLESS movies based around this universe, because everything comes off really same-y. It'd be like making 15 GI Joe movies over five years. Marvel Superheroes have a lot of similar elements, but at least they have DIFFERENT POWERS, and ones that can affect the plot a lot more.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Iron Man is a fairly straight Richard Donner-style superhero action-adventure movie; Thor is an urban fantasy romp; Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier is a Tom Clancy-esque techno-thriller; Guardians of the Galaxy is a space-opera comedy; Jessica Jones is a gritty urban noir detective show; and so on and so forth. Nineteen films and counting, eleven television series and counting, and other tie-ins so numerous as to be beyond counting...

Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and whatever the hell they're going to call the ninth one...? The two Ewok movies and Rogue One are pretty much the only unique stories (and Rogue One leans hard on the nostalgia people have for that first Star Wars film. Just ask Zombie-Tarkin.) Its all the one @#$%& story about the @#$%& family of space-wizards. They repeat major plot points, they repeat major story beats, they repeat lines of dialogue, and they ever repeat @#$%& camera angles in every @#$%& film. They do it on purpose: "It's like poetry. They rhyme. Every stanza kinda rhymes with the last one."

When I walk into a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie, I know I'll get some call-backs and some continuity, but I expect to get a unique movie. In fact, its the movies that are considered to be the weakest in the franchise (Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Incredible Hulk) are usually slighted for too closely repeating previous offerings. When I walk into a Star Wars movie, I can almost guarantee that I'm just going to get a bunch of recycled scenes, lines, and shots from Star Wars.
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