Solo: A Star Wars movie

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Jabroniville
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:19 am

Sounds like Batgirl & Ares are having two separate conversations, and that BG has interpreted Ares's post to be "the movies are better because the books were good", which he didn't say. His main point was to counter the statement that "expanding Darth Vader's story hurt the character", which he disagreed with. He's not saying the movies were better because of the books; he's saying that the books told a better story than the movies, so he's still happy the prequels got made, lest those stories wouldn't have otherwise been told.

Now... I think the Prequels were weak enough story-wise that they permanently damaged Vader's mystique and overall story. While the extra cartoons were better and improved upon that tale (Clone Wars in particular), the majority of the population only knows the "Prequel" part, so they made Vader into a joke, which should never have happened. For all the good stuff we got out of the Prequels, I still wish they hadn't been made. Or at least have been made by someone who learned how actual people talk and emote.

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Ares » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:39 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:19 am
Sounds like Batgirl & Ares are having two separate conversations, and that BG has interpreted Ares's post to be "the movies are better because the books were good", which he didn't say. His main point was to counter the statement that "expanding Darth Vader's story hurt the character", which he disagreed with. He's not saying the movies were better because of the books; he's saying that the books told a better story than the movies, so he's still happy the prequels got made, lest those stories wouldn't have otherwise been told.

Now... I think the Prequels were weak enough story-wise that they permanently damaged Vader's mystique and overall story. While the extra cartoons were better and improved upon that tale (Clone Wars in particular), the majority of the population only knows the "Prequel" part, so they made Vader into a joke, which should never have happened. For all the good stuff we got out of the Prequels, I still wish they hadn't been made. Or at least have been made by someone who learned how actual people talk and emote.
And I don't disagree that the Prequels could have been better made. That was never my contention. But I think any damage they might have done to Vader is overestimated. Vader is still considered one of the best villains of all time, if not the greatest movie villain ever. He's certainly my favorite villain of all time. Most people likely saw the Prequels once and rewatched the original trilogy whenever they came on. Us geeks tend to obsess about such things, which is why I think the perception of damage is greater than it actually is.

Had it been just the Prequels expanding on Vaders character, then I agree, going into his past would have been a mistake. But the stuff that came after the Prequels or the Prequels story being told by more capable hands, to me, made going into his past worth while. I would honestly have less appreciation for Vader now if it hadn't been for the RotS novel, the Clone Wars cartoon, REBELS, the Marvel Vader comic, etc. But that's just me.

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L-Space
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by L-Space » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:25 pm

Ares wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:39 am
Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:19 am
Sounds like Batgirl & Ares are having two separate conversations, and that BG has interpreted Ares's post to be "the movies are better because the books were good", which he didn't say. His main point was to counter the statement that "expanding Darth Vader's story hurt the character", which he disagreed with. He's not saying the movies were better because of the books; he's saying that the books told a better story than the movies, so he's still happy the prequels got made, lest those stories wouldn't have otherwise been told.

Now... I think the Prequels were weak enough story-wise that they permanently damaged Vader's mystique and overall story. While the extra cartoons were better and improved upon that tale (Clone Wars in particular), the majority of the population only knows the "Prequel" part, so they made Vader into a joke, which should never have happened. For all the good stuff we got out of the Prequels, I still wish they hadn't been made. Or at least have been made by someone who learned how actual people talk and emote.
And I don't disagree that the Prequels could have been better made. That was never my contention. But I think any damage they might have done to Vader is overestimated. Vader is still considered one of the best villains of all time, if not the greatest movie villain ever. He's certainly my favorite villain of all time. Most people likely saw the Prequels once and rewatched the original trilogy whenever they came on. Us geeks tend to obsess about such things, which is why I think the perception of damage is greater than it actually is.

Had it been just the Prequels expanding on Vaders character, then I agree, going into his past would have been a mistake. But the stuff that came after the Prequels or the Prequels story being told by more capable hands, to me, made going into his past worth while. I would honestly have less appreciation for Vader now if it hadn't been for the RotS novel, the Clone Wars cartoon, REBELS, the Marvel Vader comic, etc. But that's just me.
Not to mention the hallway scene of Rogue One because that just absolutely nailed how fearsome Darth Vader should be, especially against your standard soldiers.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Batgirl III » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:49 pm

And now there are reports that there will be no more “X: A Star Wars Story films.

I know Disney wants to get as much as they can out of their $4 billion dollar golden goose, but I really think they should just push out Episode IX and let the property rest for a decade or so... the golden goose is a lame duck, now. Let people have a few years off, to re-watch their DVDs, play with the toys, and get nostalgic again.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Ares » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:18 am

Sources with knowledge of the situation tell Collider that Lucasfilm has decided to put plans for more A Star Wars Story spinoff movies on hold, instead opting to focus their attention on Star Wars: Episode IX and what the next trilogy of Star Wars films will be after that film.
No! No no! NO. Focusing on a NEW trilogy after you botched this one is the LAST thing they need to worry about. Not unless that new trilogy is a reboot of the post RotJ Star Wars films.

Solo has done poorly than other Star Wars films due mainly to issues that have nothing to do with the quality of the film. And frankly, "Star Wars Side Stories" were the perfect way to keep the franchise alive without doing a "main trilogy" storyline.

What they really should be doing is taking a year or so off from making Star Wars films, fire the current heads of Lucas film, and consult with the MCU guys on how to keep a franchise going. Bring in creative people committed to the franchise who are also fans of the franchise. Make the choices in characters and creators about merit, fan love and fun rather than political agendas. Make a plan about where the movie is going to go.

A large reason why The Last Jedi failed was because it went from one creative team to a completely new one with no answers given for where things were suppose to go and no plans for the mysteries brought up in the first film. There was no plan here.

So take a year or two off to get a plan, outline things, release at most one Star Wars movie a year. Or hell, do what Lord of the Rings did and spend a year or two shooting a trilogy and make it feel like one long, well done story, use "Star Wars Side Stories" release one film every 2 years, and use Side Stories to fill in the gaps.

But most of all, get people that are both competent creators and fans of the franchise involved, and not people who will immediately hide behind "Critics of the film just don't like strong women" argument.

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by L-Space » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:22 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:49 pm
And now there are reports that there will be no more “X: A Star Wars Story films.

I know Disney wants to get as much as they can out of their $4 billion dollar golden goose, but I really think they should just push out Episode IX and let the property rest for a decade or so... the golden goose is a lame duck, now. Let people have a few years off, to re-watch their DVDs, play with the toys, and get nostalgic again.
Damn it. I wanted my Obi-Wan movie!
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Jabroniville
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Jabroniville » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:29 am

The Galaxy's Edge lands at the Disney Parks, plus the Merch, can keep those eggs coming for years- they can afford to let the movies settle.

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Batgirl III » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:37 am

There were sixteen-odd years between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace... Star Wars fandom can definitely last without a new feature film every ten months.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Ken » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:02 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:37 am
There were sixteen-odd years between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace... Star Wars fandom can definitely last without a new feature film every ten months.
It's not if fandom can survive. It's how fast can the Mouse make money.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Batgirl III » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:11 am

Do they want a dollar today or ten dollars tomorrow?
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Arkrite
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Arkrite » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:12 am

They want a dollar today. :(

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Batgirl III » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:27 am

Which is an oddly out of character strategy for Disney. These are the people that have been known to, literally, convince sovereign nations to rewrite intellectual property law in order to continue to milk profits out of animated shorts that are nearly a century old...

You’d think given the raging success of the “Disney Vault” method of limited time releases of their films, they’d understand the value of nostalgia.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Nunya B » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:33 am

Look up the time value of money. The basic concept is that the longer you have to wait to get your payoff, the less it's actually worth because you couldn't turn around and make more money with it. Likewise, paying a little now for a lot later can be a bad deal if you're profitable enough.
I haven't looked into Disney's accounts, but I'd imagine that their return on investment is high enough that the four gigadollar payment is going to need a lot more than four gigadollars in movie revenue to make up for it, and the faster they do so the less they need to start profiting.

That doesn't excuse them for fucking the series up, mind, but it's why I imagine they're pushing it so hard.

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Batgirl III » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:57 am

Generally, my assumption is that upper management of multi-gigadollar corporate empires knows more about their business than I do. Doesn’t mean they’re infallible and it doesn’t mean I can’t be puzzled by their decisions.

I think putting a pause on the gaiden stories and focusing on the wrap-up of the current Trilogy is probably a smart move. I just think it’s be smarter to not rush into a fourth Trilogy right away.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars movie

Post by Ken » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:35 am

Saw Solo again tonight. My brother decided to take his daughters and father to see it, and I tagged along.

I was gladdened when my five-year old niece, the one who knows that Boba Fett really loves Darth Vader, started whining "but how can Darth Maul be alive?!"
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