Echoes of the Multiverse

It was awesome.

'Nuff said.

I concur wholeheartedly.

I really, really enjoyed it. I especially liked the visual designs for both Wakanda and the characters. Between T'Challa's interaction with Zemo in Civil War and his general attitude in Black Panther, they've done a great job showing T'Challa's deep seated sense of justice. I wish more modern comic character's showed that.

Also, did this movie somehow make me like M'Baku?!?

I just came back from the theater and I really enjoyed it.
From a strictly comic point of view I think they took the best they could from Black Panther's history and made it into a coherent story. I also enjoyed that they tackled the problem of Wakanda's relationship with the rest of world right on, rather than leaving it there as the comics often did.


BTW, am I the only one who suspect that Shuri might become Iron Heart at some point?

I LOVED this movie. truly an amazing work of Art.

Ryan Coogler this guy is someone Hollywood needs to keep an eye on because this is the third movie that hes on pace to double or even triple the budget on. Coogler does an amazing job keeping the semi light hearted tone of the Marvel Universe with some great jokes and humor while Mixing in some amazing action and spy genre stuff.

The actors and actresses are amazing as well. Fierce women, lead the way chewing up the screen and making the men in the movie work even harder.
Even the Villains of the movie were great. Their motivations may have been a bit on the selfish side but the characters themselves were well written and developed. you understood their motivations they weren't just throwaways or caricatures.

All told this easily qualifies as one of the BEST of the Marvel Movie verse and I highly recommend seeing it in the theater.

Loved it too.

I remember thinking that Batman would be hyper jealous of T'Challa's toys and that Okoye could give Wonder Woman a run for her money - bad ass warrior, melee style weaponry and an aircraft with certain traits.

This made me laugh.

Ares wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:15 am This made me laugh.

I want to see Andy Serkis in more movies.

L-Space wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:20 pm I want to see Andy Serkis in more movies.

Just saw a clip of him reading Tweets as Gollum - politics aside, he`s something else. Picks up the paper to read, and promptly jumps up on the chair to hunker like Gollum. Guy definitely needs to be seen in more movies.

Wow, this was a great movie! I have my quibbles and nitpicks (an Egyptian panther goddess more or less makes sense as a patron in an African nation. Hanuman considerably less so, for instance) but I can't say there was really anything I'd call a straight up flaw, really. They even managed to make the most out of Black Panther's weak rogues gallery! We even got a decent character development for the villain, which is more than can be said from some otherwise pretty good Marvel movies such as GotG.

Also, princess Shuri is now my second-favorite Disney princess, right after princess Leia
(I do wonder if, since I highly doubt Ironman survives Infinity War, she might become the movie universe version of ironheart - especially since they moved her to the US, where I imagine most if not all the Earth-based action of Infinity War is likely to happen)

The plot and story were better than I anticipated, and the visuals and effects were good too (it only got too noticeably CGI for my taste for a brief moment when Panther and Killmonger are doing acrobatic grappling in the high-tech train platform). The acting was well done all around as well, especially Panther, Killmonger, Shuri and Okoye. Someone needs to make an action movie with Danai Gurira in the lead role.

I also liked the pretty unique aesthetic that they managed to make for Wakanda. In the comics it was sometimes depicted as this supposedly ultra advanced nation...in which people live in huts. In the movie it is more like tradition (and ancient lifestyle) and technology mixed up or living side by side. Sort of similar to Japan in some ways, but more extreme on both sides of the equation. Sure, this still involves some silly stuff, but it was an improvement. I'll even excuse stuff like they often using spears, blades and shields with energy powers instead of energy guns, and having war-rhinos instead of tanks and such because 1) hey, it is comics and 2) melee often looks more entertaining.

I think it was a good idea to make the isolationist policy of Wakanda pretty central to the movie. Given a reason to exist besides they just being jerks, as well as good arguments against it, helps ground the utopic-fantasy nation somewhat. Plus it has some significance in terms of a message of outreach and unity.

My inability to deal with the leader of such a nation being chosen by combat and somehow this being the first time a warlord with dreams of conquest coming to power remains, but this is a flaw of how the whole Black Panther deal was set up and not something I ever expected the movie to "fix".

Of course, as a filthy SJW I'm extra happy for the success of this movie and Wonder Woman, and hope this helps open new doors for representation in Media.

Saw it, enjoyed it.

M'Baku is pretty much this guy though, isn't he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5HfDIwNI8w

danelsan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:34 pm Of course, as a filthy SJW I'm extra happy for the success of this movie and Wonder Woman, and hope this helps open new doors for representation in Media.

Wanting more female and minority superheroes doesn't make you an SJW, filthy or otherwise. I don't think any reasonable comic / superhero fan would be opposed to more underutilized characters getting brought back for some focus, or new characters being made to add in such representation. Both Marvel and DC have plenty of heroes and villains that could use some more exposure.

It's only reaches SJW territory when it's done at the expense of existing characters (killing, replacing or humiliating them), or when the idea that the book featuring a female/minority/LGQT character is immune to criticism, and that poor sales/criticism can only be due to some kind of ignorance or intolerance on the part of the fans, rather than due to poor execution. I'm all for the inclusion of heroes of any gender, race or orientation in my fictional media. But I also believe that the gender, race or orientation of the character does not warrant any special treatment one way or another when it comes to enjoying, analyzing or supporting the work.

Ares wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:12 pm But I also believe that the gender, race or orientation of the character does not warrant any special treatment one way or another when it comes to enjoying, analyzing or supporting the work.

And I disagree. I consider representation a quality added to a work. It will not redeem something that is otherwise terrible (especially since said terribleness will turn people off from more representation) and like everything else it can be badly executed (like "representation" by tokens and harmful stereotypes) but it is in itself a plus in my opinion, not a neutral thing. Black Panther is a good movie on pretty much all fronts, but it is an important one mostly in terms of representation. A shitty teen vampire novel that nonetheless sells like hotcakes (and possibly turns into a movie series), but this time with minorities in the lead roles, would not be good, but could be important - especially when I hear from PoC authors that publishers don't want their work because it "has been done" (by white people).

Ares wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:12 pm I don't think any reasonable comic / superhero fan would be opposed to more underutilized characters getting brought back for some focus, or new characters being made to add in such representation. Both Marvel and DC have plenty of heroes and villains that could use some more exposure.

I'm not "not opposed" to it. I actively campaign for it with my money.

As for what makes one a SJW, I'll reject derogatory definitions of the term.

danelsan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:28 pm

Ares wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:12 pm But I also believe that the gender, race or orientation of the character does not warrant any special treatment one way or another when it comes to enjoying, analyzing or supporting the work.

And I disagree. I consider representation a quality added to a work. It will not redeem something that is otherwise terrible (especially since said terribleness will turn people off from more representation) and like everything else it can be badly executed (like "representation" by tokens and harmful stereotypes) but it is in itself a plus in my opinion, not a neutral thing. Black Panther is a good movie on pretty much all fronts, but it is an important one mostly in terms of representation. A shitty teen vampire novel that nonetheless sells like hotcakes (and possibly turns into a movie series), but this time with minorities in the lead roles, would not be good, but could be important - especially when I hear from PoC authors that publishers don't want their work because it "has been done" (by white people).

Ares wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:12 pm I don't think any reasonable comic / superhero fan would be opposed to more underutilized characters getting brought back for some focus, or new characters being made to add in such representation. Both Marvel and DC have plenty of heroes and villains that could use some more exposure.

I'm not "not opposed" to it. I actively campaign for it with my money.

As for what makes one a SJW, I'll reject derogatory definitions of the term.

I'm tossing my two cents in and say that the big divider, for me is when the entire raison d'être of a movie (or book, comic, whatever) is to showcase a minority of any sort. Black Panther works, in my mind, because it's not a movie that try to shove the representation issue down your throat (which is the SJW modus operandi), but it does so organically with the story: i.e. it's a movie set in Africa so everything feels natural and this in turn allows to put forward real and present social questions.

Black Panther: the movie celebrated by everyone for its positive portrayal of black people in which black men scream like angry chimpanzees in order to scare a white man. The movie so diverse that it is over 90% racially homogeneous. The movie where, even when blessed with hyper-advanced technology by a heavenly McGuffin, there is a rigid caste system where the masses live in primitive poverty, only the ruling class and their most elite followers benefit from their wealth and technology, and even they abide by Stone Age level political science. The movie that makes progressives cheer for a hyper-traditionalist ethno-state with a zero-immigration policy and a big, beautiful wall, proving that they'd love Richard Spencer if he was black.

The nicest thing I can say about Black Panther is that it is definitely not a SJW movie. Unfortunately, that's because it's an Alt-Right movie that progressives mistake for a Social Justice film because, yay, black people!

To be fair, many of the problems with the movie come from the fact that they're staying so true to the source material. Unfortunately, they chose to deliberately focus on Hudlin's run, and Hudlin was/is a black supremacist. There was also likely some input from Ta'nehisi Coates, the current writer and another black supremacist. A better option would have been to draw from Priest's run - another black creator, but much more talented and less race-focused, able to tell a great story about a wide variety of characters, African, white, or something else.

If someone wants to make a movie using black writers, a black director, a nearly or completely black cast and crew - not even a single white person on the payroll, if that's what they want - set in Africa that tells an awesome story and portrays African people in a complex but positive way, that would be awesome. I'd watch the hell out of that. This is not that movie. Many of the things it's saying about black people would get a white director destroyed if he dared include it in a movie, and I find it just hilarious that people are falling all over themselves to praise this malformed thing.

Also, the CGI looked half-finished. And Shuri was insufferable.