The Boys

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Spectrum
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The Boys

Post by Spectrum » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:34 pm

I've been watching The Boys the last couple of nights as time allows.

I.. I'm not sure what to say. I'm not sure that I can even say that I'm enjoying it but it is a compelling storyline.

About mid way through the series and one scene was extremely horrific and left me twitching for a half hour later.
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.

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Ares
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Re: The Boys

Post by Ares » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:26 pm

The Boys is a series I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole for one simple sentence: "Based on the superhero comic written by Garth Ennis".

I know Ennis has his fans, that his Punisher series was quite good and there's folks that enjoyed his run on Preacher and Hitman. I am not one of them. The only thing Ennis has ever written that I enjoyed was the Superman guest appearance in Hitman. Other than that one issue, and maybe the Bloodlines Annual that introduced Hitman, I hate pretty much everything I've ever read from Ennis, and reading about the stuff I haven't read just reinforces my beliefs.

The Boys was something I had heard about and had a morbid curiosity about. Sure enough, it's a hyperviolent story full of toilet humor about a world where superheroes are amoral pricks / complete idiots and the good guys are Standard Ennis Protagonists Numbers 1 - 6. Though only thing I can grant Ennis is that he has a modicum of self-awareness with this one where he realizes that even his protagonists are mostly complete monsters as well.

This was also the series where he wrote a Captain America analogue who was a complete idiot, and Ennis specifically mentions that he feels superheroes tied to World War 2 are extra stupid because they're disrespectful to the people who died during said war. Never mind that Ennis writes his own fiction about hyper-competent badasses that you could make the same argument about, never mind that many soldiers going off to war read superhero comics as a form of escapism from the horrors of war and enjoyed seeing Captain America and Superman punching Nazis.

Look, superhero comics aren't for everyone, and with Ennis I can at least appreciate that he's honest about his hate, rather than other creators who come into the industry just to change it due to an agenda. But if you don't like something, and there's a market to write the things you do like, why not write the stuff you like instead of dedicating a series to the hate-boner you have for the genre that built up the medium you work in?

It'd be like an American football player going play baseball and spends 99% of his time talking about how much he hates baseball, how much he hates the fans of baseball and how much he thinks it's disrespectful to his sport, because baseball is "the national past time" and made broadcast sports popular enough for football to do likewise.

So yeah, if the Boys were on fire, I'd through another gallon of gasoline on them to move things along.

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Re: The Boys

Post by Ken » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:37 am

Ares wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:26 pm
The Boys is a series I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole for one simple sentence: "Based on the superhero comic written by Garth Ennis".

I know Ennis has his fans, that his Punisher series was quite good and there's folks that enjoyed his run on Preacher and Hitman. I am not one of them. The only thing Ennis has ever written that I enjoyed was the Superman guest appearance in Hitman. Other than that one issue, and maybe the Bloodlines Annual that introduced Hitman, I hate pretty much everything I've ever read from Ennis, and reading about the stuff I haven't read just reinforces my beliefs.

The Boys was something I had heard about and had a morbid curiosity about. Sure enough, it's a hyperviolent story full of toilet humor about a world where superheroes are amoral pricks / complete idiots and the good guys are Standard Ennis Protagonists Numbers 1 - 6. Though only thing I can grant Ennis is that he has a modicum of self-awareness with this one where he realizes that even his protagonists are mostly complete monsters as well.

This was also the series where he wrote a Captain America analogue who was a complete idiot, and Ennis specifically mentions that he feels superheroes tied to World War 2 are extra stupid because they're disrespectful to the people who died during said war. Never mind that Ennis writes his own fiction about hyper-competent badasses that you could make the same argument about, never mind that many soldiers going off to war read superhero comics as a form of escapism from the horrors of war and enjoyed seeing Captain America and Superman punching Nazis.

Look, superhero comics aren't for everyone, and with Ennis I can at least appreciate that he's honest about his hate, rather than other creators who come into the industry just to change it due to an agenda. But if you don't like something, and there's a market to write the things you do like, why not write the stuff you like instead of dedicating a series to the hate-boner you have for the genre that built up the medium you work in?

It'd be like an American football player going play baseball and spends 99% of his time talking about how much he hates baseball, how much he hates the fans of baseball and how much he thinks it's disrespectful to his sport, because baseball is "the national past time" and made broadcast sports popular enough for football to do likewise.

So yeah, if the Boys were on fire, I'd through another gallon of gasoline on them to move things along.
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Re: The Boys

Post by FuzzyBoots » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:19 am

I haven't watched the Amazon series, but I did enjoy the comics. I suppose it's the cynical side of me, but I do think that the odds are pretty good that people getting superpowers would result in as much collateral damage as random people getting gifted with nuclear launch codes. In general, I like my superhero comics optimistic, but I also appreciate them realizing the danger of collateral damage if every powered yahoo is throwing around energy blasts without considering what's behind what they're shooting at.

And yeah, I did also like that they established that The Boys are, in general, not good people. Being the scrappy resistance fighter can be a good selling point, but generally said resistance can only survive against a superior force because they're committing war crimes or because another nation is using them as their catspaw, looking to profit on the destruction. You can justify it to a point under the heading of the "greater good", but eventually, you need to own up to the atrocities.

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Re: The Boys

Post by RUSCHE » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:57 pm

Ares wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:26 pm
The Boys is a series I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole for one simple sentence: "Based on the superhero comic written by Garth Ennis".

I know Ennis has his fans, that his Punisher series was quite good and there's folks that enjoyed his run on Preacher and Hitman. I am not one of them. The only thing Ennis has ever written that I enjoyed was the Superman guest appearance in Hitman. Other than that one issue, and maybe the Bloodlines Annual that introduced Hitman, I hate pretty much everything I've ever read from Ennis, and reading about the stuff I haven't read just reinforces my beliefs.

The Boys was something I had heard about and had a morbid curiosity about. Sure enough, it's a hyperviolent story full of toilet humor about a world where superheroes are amoral pricks / complete idiots and the good guys are Standard Ennis Protagonists Numbers 1 - 6. Though only thing I can grant Ennis is that he has a modicum of self-awareness with this one where he realizes that even his protagonists are mostly complete monsters as well.

This was also the series where he wrote a Captain America analogue who was a complete idiot, and Ennis specifically mentions that he feels superheroes tied to World War 2 are extra stupid because they're disrespectful to the people who died during said war. Never mind that Ennis writes his own fiction about hyper-competent badasses that you could make the same argument about, never mind that many soldiers going off to war read superhero comics as a form of escapism from the horrors of war and enjoyed seeing Captain America and Superman punching Nazis.

Look, superhero comics aren't for everyone, and with Ennis I can at least appreciate that he's honest about his hate, rather than other creators who come into the industry just to change it due to an agenda. But if you don't like something, and there's a market to write the things you do like, why not write the stuff you like instead of dedicating a series to the hate-boner you have for the genre that built up the medium you work in?

It'd be like an American football player going play baseball and spends 99% of his time talking about how much he hates baseball, how much he hates the fans of baseball and how much he thinks it's disrespectful to his sport, because baseball is "the national past time" and made broadcast sports popular enough for football to do likewise.

So yeah, if the Boys were on fire, I'd through another gallon of gasoline on them to move things along.
I think you are holding back, tell us how you really feel. 😎

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Ares
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Re: The Boys

Post by Ares » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:46 pm

RUSCHE wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:57 pm
I think you are holding back, tell us how you really feel. 😎
Garth Ennis is a teenager with all the possible worst character traits associated with being a teenager (vulgar, cynical, the worst kind of toilet humor, obsessed with sex, believes he knows everything, enjoys destruction for destruction's sake) who just happens to be in the body of a man old enough that he's allowed to put all of the dirty little edgelord thoughts in his head down on paper and sell them. Superhero comics should have a restraining order filed on him, he should never be allowed anywhere near the genre again, and he should be relegated to Image books where he can produce as much Preacher-style material as his microscopic, black, rotted, desiccated corpse of a heart can manage.

RUSCHE
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Re: The Boys

Post by RUSCHE » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:48 pm

Ares wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:46 pm
RUSCHE wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:57 pm
I think you are holding back, tell us how you really feel. 😎
Garth Ennis is a teenager with all the possible worst character traits associated with being a teenager (vulgar, cynical, the worst kind of toilet humor, obsessed with sex, believes he knows everything, enjoys destruction for destruction's sake) who just happens to be in the body of a man old enough that he's allowed to put all of the dirty little edgelord thoughts in his head down on paper and sell them. Superhero comics should have a restraining order filed on him, he should never be allowed anywhere near the genre again, and he should be relegated to Image books where he can produce as much Preacher-style material as his microscopic, black, rotted, desiccated corpse of a heart can manage.
Now that is more like it, I am ok with some dark Super hero stories every now and than. I want..no need my Heroes to be Heroic. I know we all have different take on our love for comics here, and that is a great thing. His work goes too far for me. I watched the series on Amazon so I could at least say I tried.
It left me more uneasy than thrilled, perhaps that is the intent, but it was not my thing. It was far too dark with only one person that you could root for and even then it felt odd.

Spectrum
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Re: The Boys

Post by Spectrum » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:14 pm

Finished the series last night. Not too eager to see the second season if it comes out.

I can think of several sympathetic characters. Which one are you thinking of?
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.

mrdent12
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Re: The Boys

Post by mrdent12 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:12 pm

I've finally got around to watching the first episode and will likely watch the rest. After all the MCU films and TV shows being more of 13 where it is clear who is good and who is bad, shows like The Boys is refreshing, but more in the pallette cleansing way for me. Too much of it just makes me feel blah even if infused with dark humour.

I was the same way with the Preacher TV show. Loved the graphic novel, but it didn't hold up well translated to T.V

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Poodle
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Re: The Boys

Post by Poodle » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:08 am

I will be the salmon swimming in the wrong direction. I liked it. I have a pretty dark sense of humor though. To me it seems a lot more accurate about how a world with Superheroes would be. I appreciate that people like their heroes to be HEROIC but I get sick of Superman's inability to do anything wrong and the moral high ground they all occupy. "Look at us, aren't we brave and good" despite outright vigilantism and largely being immune to the powers of bad guys. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for a few people who do stuff for all the right reasons and make for a simple but enjoyable movie like "the Avengers" or "Justice League" but characters like Punisher, Wolverine, Rorshach, the Comedian and the Boys reflect another part of the human psyche and as such can make for more interesting stories morally. Even Magneto and Mystique make the x-men better by providing a different viewpoint.

Give me "The boys", "the watchmen" and "the Punisher" over "Arrow", "the Flash" and "Supergirl" any day.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Albert Einstein

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Egyptoid
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Re: The Boys

Post by Egyptoid » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:09 pm

I didn't think we'd be allowed to criticize it, I'm glad someone agrees with me on G.Ennis.
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Ares
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Re: The Boys

Post by Ares » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:34 pm

Egyptoid wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:09 pm
I didn't think we'd be allowed to criticize it, I'm glad someone agrees with me on G.Ennis.
You're allowed to criticize pretty much anything here. My personal tastes, philosophy and political leanings are not the boards tastes, philosophy and political leanings. Regardless of what the majority of the people here thing, this is a place for everyone. The only thing I ask is that if there's debate or disagreement over something, that it's done respectfully between the parties involved. I encourage debate here because that's the only way people can get introduced to new perspectives.

Even in this thread we've got people that like the series, that don't like the series, that have mixed feelings about the series, and who haven't seen the series but have differing thoughts on the source material and its creator. Admittedly, I was the most hyperbolic of the lot.

But yeah, whether you like, dislike or don't care about Ennis and his works, feel free to share your thoughts.

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Re: The Boys

Post by BriarThrone » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:18 am

There were things I didn't like about the series, but overall... WOW. It's very black-pilled, and OF COURSE the villain is a corporation capitalizing on superheroes... but I thought it was a good story, well told. Looking forward to the second season. If I could snap my fingers and make things happen, I'd immediately cleanse my pallette and watch two or three classic superhero stories of real heroes fighting real villains in order to set the balance right, but good stories of that nature are hard to find these days, because our entertainment culture is awful.

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Poodle
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Re: The Boys

Post by Poodle » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:15 am

I think it might be because morality is seen as old-fashioned. The idwa that people do good things just to do good things is diametrically opposed to aspects of modern culture that does bad things and justifies them as good although I acknowledge that is not a new phenomenon. No one is the villain in tbeir own story.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Albert Einstein

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mrdent12
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Re: The Boys

Post by mrdent12 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:41 pm

The four colour type stories where the good are good and bad are bad certainly has an audience. Some of the older shows/films with that ideal are still fun to watch and have held up surprisingly well. Unfortunately, it seems now when stories like that are portrayed the story just feels bland and characters cut outs. It's possible to have deep characters that have interesting arcs and rich stories in a four colour type tone. Modern shows just can't seem to write them anymore from what I've seen.

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