Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

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Ares
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Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by Ares » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:38 pm

One thing I always liked about adaptations from one source material to another was seeing how new creators could take older stories and either faithfully adapt them, successfully update and improve them, or screw them up entirely. For instance, the MCU took the Civil War story and did a MASSIVELY better job with it than the comic did. Likewise, Superman/Batman: Public Enemies and Superman/Batman: Apocalypse were both less stupid than the comics versions by differing degrees.

Part of it is simply the benefit of hindsight, of knowing how things have changed since that story, how trends that might have influenced the story have gone, etc. Some stories that could have been much more epic wound up getting remembered with very little fanfare, if they're remembered at all.

Take "War of the Gods" for instance. It could have been the definitive "Wonder Woman" event where Diana takes center stage and has to lead the heroes of Earth in this crisis as the old pantheons of DC have awoken and engaged in all out warfare with each other. Instead, it's frequently a footnote at best in Diana's history.

Likewise, the Bloodlines storyline and the characters it introduced actually had a lot of potential to be a lot better than it was. It's frequently mocked for being very "90s" (and some of the characters created for it definitely deserve that), but overall I see a lot of potential in elements of the story and the characters.

Marvel's Civil War and Secret Invasion likewise had a lot of potential for greatness, but the former is most often derided for how bad it was executed, while the latter's biggest achievement was killing off the Wasp and retconning Black Bolt's defeat at the Hulk's hand during World War Hulk.

So, lets say that after some big company reboot where both companies are course correcting (hint, hint), that both companies decided to do updated versions of some of their classic crossover/mega-event storylines. How could they be improved? What could be done differently?

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Re: Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by Ares » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:40 pm

And to give credit where it's due, this thread was inspired by Kreuzritter recent Bloodlines Builds over on RPG.net, which had me revisiting the event and thinking about it critically for the first time in decades.

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Re: Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by Ken » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:32 pm

In the JLA/Avengers crossover, when the Grandmaster shows both teams what the reality they are trying to restore is, he shows them everything that happened AFTER JLA/Avengers (i.e. the Radium Age) and both teams say "AH HELL NO" and then they come up with a way to save realities that that doesn't involve leading into Avengers Disassembled and Identity Crisis and Graduation Day and House of M.
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Re: Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:57 pm

Crisis on Infinite Earths, essentially perfect as is, just remove those last few panels on the last page saying there’s only one Earth now and creating the pocket-dimension Superboy Prime.
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Re: Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by Ken » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:04 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:57 pm
Crisis on Infinite Earths, essentially perfect as is, just remove those last few panels on the last page saying there’s only one Earth now and creating the pocket-dimension Superboy Prime.
Sadly, those "last few panels" are, pretty much the 11th and 12th issues.

But, the first 10 issues were AWESOME.
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Re: Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by Ares » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:02 pm

Yeah, much as I love Crisis on Infinite Earths, possibly my favorite mega-crossover (with only JLAvengers being something that could tie it for the #1 spot), it did create a lot of problems because of a lack of foresight. And, I mean, I get it. The idea was to streamline everything, but they should have realized that no one was going to want the multiverse to stay gone forever. Hell, they started to bring it back as with Zero Hour.

With the benefit of hindsight, I would have suggested this:

After the battle in Issue 10, all of the surviving Earths were merged into a single continuity, but the multiverse itself was also reborn. However, the new Earth Prime (as I'd call the mainstream DCU) is temporarily cut off from the multiverse while the other dimensions "settle" from the conflict, leaving Earth Prime connected only with the Anti-Matter Universe.

Characters like E2 Superman, E2 Wonder Woman, E2 Robin, Superboy Prime and the like are still anomalies in this universe since Earth 1 was used as the primary source, and thus the E1 histories overwrote the E2 ones where there was conflict. In some cases, however, some characters were merged together into a single individual, such as the Hawkman and Hawkwoman of both E1 and E2 having their histories merged and becoming only a single pair of characters.

The rest of the story plays out as usual, save that E1 Wonder Woman doesn't die at the end, and its clear that everyone who was present at the dawn of time are the only ones who remember the full story, though their new memories of their lives take precedent.

Following Crisis, these changes are made:

- The Justice Society are retconned as having been fighting that battle in Asgard after World War II, but are freed from it about 15 years before the new age of heroes, along with their spouses (who decided to join the heroes there). They retire from hero-ing and raise their kids, allowing for Infinity Inc. to be born and be in their early 20's when they decide to join the modern age of heroes. Black Canary was born before they were sent to Asgard, and was in her early-to-mid 20s at the start of the new age of heroes.

- Clark Kent never becomes Superboy in the modern era. However, the Legion protect Clark from a time traveling assassin, and decide to take him to the future to help him train with his powers. Brainiac 5 is able to use future science to temporarily grant Superboy power equal to his adult self while in the future, so all of his Superboy/Legion adventures happen, but he's only Superboy in the 30th Century. While in the 30th Century, Superboy pretends to be someone inspired by Superman, or one of his descendants. The Legion timeline remains intact.

- The Golden Age Wonder Woman was Diana's mother, Hippolyta , wearing a black wig. She actually does fall in love with a mortal man and have a daughter, who becomes Fury. However, she does return to the Amazons and leaves her child to be raised by others, feeling the Amazons would not accept Fury.

-Wonder Woman debues only a few months after Superman, Batman and Captain Marvel. Donna Troy is rescued by Hippolyta and brought to Paradise Island as an experiment to see if the Amazons will tolerate an outsider. Donna is raised on the island as Diana's younger sister. Eventually, Donna's acceptance encourages Hippolyta to bring Fury to Paradise Island and raise her there. This makes things awkward and creates tension between Diana and Fury. Donna's origin remains intact and requires no retcons.

- Hawkman and Hawkwoman's origins are combined. The original Hawks crashlanded in ancient Egypt thousands of years ago, from a race of winged Thanagarians in pursuit of a criminal. They rule Egypt, are murdered and betrayed, and cursed to reincarnate as humans. In the Golden Age, the operate as Hawkman and Hawkgirl, using Nth metal wings to replace their lost wings. Once they return to the modern age, they are able to return to use modern technology to repair their ship, return to Thanagar, and operate as the modern Hawkman and Hawkwoman.

- Supergirl and the Flash's sacrifices are remembered. Supergirl will eventually be brought back to life somehow.

- Power Girl and the Huntress remember their previous E2 lives and have to forge new lives for themselves akin to the Nu-52 series, but less stupid.

Eventually the multiverse "settles" and heroes are allowed to travel back and forth in it again, but most comic stories are centered on Earth Prime.

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Re: Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:26 pm

- Supergirl and the Flash's sacrifices are remembered. Supergirl will eventually be brought back to life somehow.
Lex Luthor decides to revamp his public persona and, inspired by the sacrifice of Supergirl (and because it will tweak Superman’s nose) makes a shapeshifting clone who has adventures for a time as Supergirl. She eventually sacrifices herself to end a threat, dies in Clark’s arms as he tells her she was just as “real” a Supergirl as Kara Zor-L.

Shortly thereafter, a human teenager named Linda Danvers is endangered by a disaster, but suddenly is filled with power by a spiritual being she can only describe as being an “angel.” Her newfound powers allow her to become a superheroine and remembering the legacies of the previous two heroines she calls herself Supergirl. She has lots of fun, happy, and inspirational adventures.

Eventually, it’s revealed that Linda Danvers’ human body can not handle the strain of her growing powers anymore. Consulting with Zatanna and Dr. Fate, we learn that the “angel” that empowered her is, in fact, the original Kara Zor-L trapped in-between Earth Prime and the afterlife. Magic woo-woo ensues, maybe a fight with Blaze or Satanish or whomever. Then presto, the original Supergirl is back.

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Re: Older Mega/Crossover Events: Updated for today.

Post by MacynSnow » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:38 pm

RISE OF THE MIDNIGHT SONS
The story goes along as typical,but it's revealed that Lilith is the Daughter of Satanish and she's being helped behind the Scenes by a possessed Damian Hellstrom,adding Hellcat as a member instead of Black Cat(allowing her to be better used elsewhere,as she's not mystically natured AT ALL)....

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