How to fix the DCEU

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Batgirl III
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How to fix the DCEU

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 01, 2018 11:13 pm

So, let’s be frank, the DCEU has basically been a critical and commercial disaster. The high-points were Wonder Woman and Man of Steel, which isn’t saying much... Fans, general audiences, and film critics all seem to agree that the perpetual grimdark tone seems to be the biggest problem.

Here’s my idea for a fix: Justice League 2: Crisis of Conscience.

We take all the heroes from the CW!DC shows: Stephen Amell, Grant Gustin, Melissa Benosit, Tyler Hoechiln, Caity Lotz, Brandon Routh... The whole shebang. Everyone. Then we throw them through a portal in time and space and have them end up in the Anti-Matter Universe. Where crime is always successful, greed is good, and evil always triumphs. Inevitably, our heroes have to fight past the evil dastardly villains that are the “heroes” of this new Earth... Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill, Ezra Miller, etc.

Yeah, that’s right, Henry Cavill was actually Ultraman the whole time.
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L-Space
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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by L-Space » Wed May 02, 2018 1:33 am

I feel bad for Henry Cavill. He has the right look to be Superman and he actually has a good amount of charisma and charm, but Warner Bros just buries it under clunky writing and dour tones.
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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by MacynSnow » Wed May 02, 2018 1:55 am

Here's the thing for me 'bout the DCEU:they didn't stick to their original game plan like Marvel Studios did.

With this in mind,here's what my plan would be to 'fix' the DC Movieverse.....
SET 1: Batman Year One(Actor would be selected at later date),All-Star Superman(Use Brandon Roth,as he's honestly the better actor with Dean Cain as either Lex or Bizzaro),Wonder Woman(use same actress,but return the setting back to WW II.Also hint at there being an pre-existing group of heroes....),The Flash(use the one from the CW,as he has more of the build&attitude of Barry with the CW Reverse-Flash as villian),Green Lantern(here's where Cavill should go,as anyone's a better choice than Ryan Reynolds,but use the Sinestro from the original),Aquaman,Throne Of Atlantis(keep Momoa in the role as well as the actress that played Mera,as they both what you want him to be.Use Oceanmaster as villian instead of Black Manta,as it'll work better.End movie by hinting at Justice League formation...),Justice league New Frontier(Use Elba as Martian Manhunter,who's been going around the back end of these movies as Detective John Jones gathering these 'unique people' together in order to fight off the White Martians.Twist is that he's also a Martian and Accidentally released them from their hybernation.)

Thus would end Set 1 of the New DCEU.If it all comes crashing down again,then they should just stick to animation....

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Ken » Wed May 02, 2018 2:03 am

Get enough money to purchase DC away from Warner Bros.?
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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Ares » Wed May 02, 2018 5:08 am

For my money's worth, Wonder Woman was the only genuinely good DCEU film to date. Justice League was an okay film with some fun moments marred by some bad decisions. Man of Steel was a very mixed bag of decent ideas and bad executions. Batman v. Superman was just bad, where the best part of the Superman/Batman fight/team-up movie was Wonder Woman. And I still haven't seen Suicide Squad yet.

DC's problem was two-fold: they wanted what the MCU had done but without the several years of build up it had taken to get to "The Avengers" (Marvel had released a Captain America, Thor, Hulk and 2 Iron Man films before the Avengers), and they had a serious problem with the tone of the setting.

Man of Steel pretty much set the stage for the rest of the DCEU. It had some interesting ideas, introducing this concept of Choice, the idea that Krypton was a flawed society because choice had effectively been bred out of its people, and that Superman would be unique as a person because what he would do on Earth would be his decision. He was someone who could take what he knew of Krypton and his life experiences on Earth and choose to be a hero. Like his father said to him, "Clark, when you decide what kind of person you're going to be, you're going to be amazing." Meanwhile Zod has some interesting layers to him as someone who feels he's doing what his purpose should be, revealing the flaws in that kind of society. Instead, Superman doesn't really make any choices of his own. He spends the entire movie doing what his fathers tell him to do (first Pa Kent, then Jor-El, and then even the priest at one point). He grows up in a climate of fear and oppression rather than as an All-American kid. He chooses to listen to his father, who chooses to die rather than let his son save him. In what could have been the highlight moment of the film, Clark should have defied his father, saving him in spite of his wishes, and saying "This is the kind of person I'm going to be". It was a Superman film without any joy or real inspiration.

Batman v. Superman just made those problems worse with the poor casting of Lex Luthor, a fight between two people where no one was really rooting for either hero, the rushed origin of Doomsday, a death of Superman no one bought, and whose biggest accomplishment was showing how awesome Gal Gadot was going to be as Wonder Woman.

Justice League had the issue of being based largely off of the Nu-52 Justice League, but included a Barry Allen who was doing a terrible and more socially awkward Peter Parker impression.

It was clear DC wanted to have what the MCU has, but didn't want to directly ape the tone or style. And they did make a good decision by not putting out another Batman movie first, since they'd just wrapped up the Dark Knight trilogy. I think DC had an opportunity to have their own cinematic universe, but execute it in a unique way by taking advantage of one simple fact: EVERYONE knows who Batman and Superman are.

Rather than have a new origin film for Batman or Superman, have a movie titled "World's Finest: Superman and Batman", and make the first film of the DCU a team-up film between the two. Everyone knows their origins, and you can show said origins during the pre-credits sequence, before moving on to the first meeting of the two heroes, maybe only a couple of months into their careers. And you can even subvert expectations by having them NOT fight, save for maybe a very brief tussle, and then have them get along fairly quickly, save each other's life, etc. Make it a fun film where they actually kind of like having someone to confide in, someone to help them out, and focus on how the two compliment each other. And have the movie end with the acknowledgement that there are other heroes out there, and that perhaps they could do more good if more of them worked together.

Then you can have a series of films called "The Brave and the Bold", where Batman and Superman introduce other, lesser known DC heroes to the general public. Brave and the Bold: Gods and Monsters could feature Superman and Wonder Woman, introducing the DCEU to magic and mythology. Brave and the Bold: Detectives could have Batman discover the Martian Manhunter. You could even have franchises large enough to support their own films like the Green Lantern Corp. be about Hal, Guy, John and Kyle all getting chosen by the ring (something that never happened before), and be a team movie about how each of them has something that makes them worthy of the ring, but that Hal is perhaps the best leader of the bunch. And then after a hero is introduced in a team-up, they can have their own team-up to introduce other heroes, all of it culminating in a Justice League movie.

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Batgirl III » Wed May 02, 2018 5:30 am

In other words, Ares, do exactly what the Bruce Timm DCAU did. Seriously, the Batman didn’t even get an origin flashback until episode three and even then the narrative hinges on the idea that the audience (who were meant to be kids!) already knew that Bruce Wayne’s parents’ death was his origin.

When the Batman and Superman met in the crossover special, the two do fight... But it’s one scene and then they explain the situation to each other like rational adults.

Hell, the more recent Young Justice cartoon has a cast of twenty two recurring characters on the main team. Only two of them get an “origin story” episode. There’s an equally large number of heroes and villains in supporting roles. They don’t need to tell you who Superman, the Batman, or even fairly obscure (to general audiences) characters like Zatara or Captain Marvel are...

I’ve read that anthropologists have come to learn that certain iconographic symbols are known by virtually everyone on Earth, regardless of culture or society: the Christian Cross, the Islamic Crescent, the American Flag, the Golden Arches, and the Superman S-Shield.
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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by HalloweenJack » Thu May 10, 2018 5:06 pm

Ares wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:08 am
For my money's worth, Wonder Woman was the only genuinely good DCEU film to date. Justice League was an okay film with some fun moments marred by some bad decisions. Man of Steel was a very mixed bag of decent ideas and bad executions. Batman v. Superman was just bad, where the best part of the Superman/Batman fight/team-up movie was Wonder Woman. And I still haven't seen Suicide Squad yet.

DC's problem was two-fold: they wanted what the MCU had done but without the several years of build up it had taken to get to "The Avengers" (Marvel had released a Captain America, Thor, Hulk and 2 Iron Man films before the Avengers), and they had a serious problem with the tone of the setting.

Man of Steel pretty much set the stage for the rest of the DCEU. It had some interesting ideas, introducing this concept of Choice, the idea that Krypton was a flawed society because choice had effectively been bred out of its people, and that Superman would be unique as a person because what he would do on Earth would be his decision. He was someone who could take what he knew of Krypton and his life experiences on Earth and choose to be a hero. Like his father said to him, "Clark, when you decide what kind of person you're going to be, you're going to be amazing." Meanwhile Zod has some interesting layers to him as someone who feels he's doing what his purpose should be, revealing the flaws in that kind of society. Instead, Superman doesn't really make any choices of his own. He spends the entire movie doing what his fathers tell him to do (first Pa Kent, then Jor-El, and then even the priest at one point). He grows up in a climate of fear and oppression rather than as an All-American kid. He chooses to listen to his father, who chooses to die rather than let his son save him. In what could have been the highlight moment of the film, Clark should have defied his father, saving him in spite of his wishes, and saying "This is the kind of person I'm going to be". It was a Superman film without any joy or real inspiration.

Batman v. Superman just made those problems worse with the poor casting of Lex Luthor, a fight between two people where no one was really rooting for either hero, the rushed origin of Doomsday, a death of Superman no one bought, and whose biggest accomplishment was showing how awesome Gal Gadot was going to be as Wonder Woman.

Justice League had the issue of being based largely off of the Nu-52 Justice League, but included a Barry Allen who was doing a terrible and more socially awkward Peter Parker impression.

It was clear DC wanted to have what the MCU has, but didn't want to directly ape the tone or style. And they did make a good decision by not putting out another Batman movie first, since they'd just wrapped up the Dark Knight trilogy. I think DC had an opportunity to have their own cinematic universe, but execute it in a unique way by taking advantage of one simple fact: EVERYONE knows who Batman and Superman are.

Rather than have a new origin film for Batman or Superman, have a movie titled "World's Finest: Superman and Batman", and make the first film of the DCU a team-up film between the two. Everyone knows their origins, and you can show said origins during the pre-credits sequence, before moving on to the first meeting of the two heroes, maybe only a couple of months into their careers. And you can even subvert expectations by having them NOT fight, save for maybe a very brief tussle, and then have them get along fairly quickly, save each other's life, etc. Make it a fun film where they actually kind of like having someone to confide in, someone to help them out, and focus on how the two compliment each other. And have the movie end with the acknowledgement that there are other heroes out there, and that perhaps they could do more good if more of them worked together.

Then you can have a series of films called "The Brave and the Bold", where Batman and Superman introduce other, lesser known DC heroes to the general public. Brave and the Bold: Gods and Monsters could feature Superman and Wonder Woman, introducing the DCEU to magic and mythology. Brave and the Bold: Detectives could have Batman discover the Martian Manhunter. You could even have franchises large enough to support their own films like the Green Lantern Corp. be about Hal, Guy, John and Kyle all getting chosen by the ring (something that never happened before), and be a team movie about how each of them has something that makes them worthy of the ring, but that Hal is perhaps the best leader of the bunch. And then after a hero is introduced in a team-up, they can have their own team-up to introduce other heroes, all of it culminating in a Justice League movie.

I agree with everything aside from Gal Gadot being awesome. I just still don't see it or get it.

Me I'da gone with Gina Carano. looks more like how I'd expect WW to look and comparable in acting skill from what I've seen of Gadot.

aside from that, bueno

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Ares » Thu May 10, 2018 5:31 pm

HalloweenJack wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 5:06 pm
I agree with everything aside from Gal Gadot being awesome. I just still don't see it or get it.

Me I'da gone with Gina Carano. looks more like how I'd expect WW to look and comparable in acting skill from what I've seen of Gadot.

aside from that, bueno
I'll admit, I thought Gina Carano could potentially make a good Diana as well. She definitely has the fighting skills, the build, and would . . . erm . . . fill out a Wonder Woman outfit nicely. She's a couple of inches shorter than Gal, and I honestly don't know enough about her acting skills, but I think she probably could have done fine.

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by HalloweenJack » Thu May 10, 2018 5:34 pm

She'd easily do as well as Gadot from what I've seen of them both.

Gadot only really had one good performance as WW IMO and that was based off the chemistry she and Chris Pine really really had.

It may not be cool in this day and age but my first thought after seeing Wonder Woman was "man...I really want a Steve Trevor solo movie"

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Ares » Thu May 10, 2018 5:36 pm

HalloweenJack wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 5:34 pm
She'd easily do as well as Gadot from what I've seen of them both.

Gadot only really had one good performance as WW IMO and that was based off the chemistry she and Chris Pine really really had.

It may not be cool in this day and age but my first thought after seeing Wonder Woman was "man...I really want a Steve Trevor solo movie"
I was actually kind of bummed about Chris Pine's performance in the film, because while it's going on, all I could think was "Damn, he'd actually make a great Hal Jordan".

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by HalloweenJack » Thu May 10, 2018 5:39 pm

I think was legitimately the best role I've seen the guy do....I mean outside of Wet Hot American Summer of course.

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Batgirl III » Thu May 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Ares wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 5:36 pm
I was actually kind of bummed about Chris Pine's performance in the film, because while it's going on, all I could think was "Damn, he'd actually make a great Hal Jordan".
Hal Jordan is Nathan Fillion. Anything else and I riot.
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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by HalloweenJack » Thu May 10, 2018 5:58 pm

heh. that reminds me of a joke I made at HC years ago where I said Nathan Fillion would make an excellent Wonder Woman.


don't deny it. His smooth Canadian Country accent is exactly as I always imagined Diana's voice.

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Shock » Thu May 10, 2018 6:12 pm

I've always envisioned Hal Jordan as a more serious type. Maybe because of the deep, ultra-manly voice he had on Super Friends. Snarky Nathan Fillion doesn't work for me there.

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Re: How to fix the DCEU

Post by Ares » Thu May 10, 2018 6:25 pm

Hal's gone through several personality shifts over the years. He started out with the kind of typical bland Silver Age superhero personality, but has since basically fluctuated between two personality types.

The less popular one was Hal as the "good cop", the guy who would often clash with folks like Guy Gardner and be a good counterpoint to Oliver Queen. In that instance, Hal was basically a "by the book" space cop, fairly straight laced, responsible and a good authority figure.

The more popular type is that of Hal as kind of a hard-luck rebel, someone who often works withing larger systems of authority (the Air-Force, the Green Lanterns), but often challenges said authority. This version of Hal is frequently confident to the point of being cocky, has a very "fly by the seat of his pants" type attitude, and is frequently a bit of a womanizer. He's often still a good leader and he rebels for good reasons, but he's much less straight laced and has much more trouble with responsibility.

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