Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

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Ares
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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Ares » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:20 pm

What was interesting with Tim originally at least was that while Dick emphasized acrobatics, Tim was very much a dedicated martial artist, down to the split-toe boots of his original outfit and his bo-staff. Between that and his detective skills, he was a Robin who was, in some ways, a mini-Batman, though with enough humor to shake things up. One thing I liked about the dynamic with Tim was that Tim could potentially be someone who could do co-detective work with Bruce, possibly even coming at it from an angle Bruce hadn't considered. Tim was likely the second best detective on Earth, with Dick and Barbara being more or less tied for 3rd.

I kind of see Barbara and Black Widow as having similar styles, but starting at it from different angles. Both would be experts in grappling, joint locks, and throws, partially to quickly gain control over an opponent, partially because of the crowd control nature certain grapples/throws can allow, and because a grappled opponent can make good cover. I'd also say their offensive martial arts is likely very kick heavy, since it lets them attack while their hands are full, either from having an opponent grappled or because they've got weapons in them (batarangs, guns, etc.). So some combo of Aikido / Jujitsu with some Tae Kwon Do / Wing Chun mixed in. It's just that Bab starts with the grappling from the mindset of not wanting to hurt people too much while Widow does it to establish control and fear.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:59 pm

There have been more than a few instances where Bruce's internal monologue have said that Tim was a potentially better detective than he was... He was at or near the Batman's level, but would probably surpass him in the future.

At any rate, I think it's safe to assume that any given member of the Batman Family should be considered at least at the better-than-average level of skill in just about any martial art, detective/investigative skill, and stealth/intimidation/theatricality. Each of them will have their individual areas of focus, but we're talking about a crew that has "min/max" as a damn near superpower.
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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Ares » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:01 pm

Right, I'm just pointing out individual areas of expertise. Batman's generally the biggest skill monkey in comics, but his team should have areas where they equal or surpass him.

I'd say Dick is a better acrobat and, at this point, should be Bruce's equal in close quarters combat. I'd also say that Dick is probably the overall best leader in the DCU, basically combining Bruce's tactical skills with Superman's ability to inspire, along with a knack for getting people to work together.

Tim is roughly on par with Bruce detective skill wise, while trying to build up his martial arts skills to Bruce's level.

Barbara is a better hacker / cyber-security expert.

Cassie is probably a better close quarters fighter than Bruce is, and her body language ability gives her unique skills.

And I like to pretend that Jason Todd is still dead and that Damian Wayne was fell victim to the Bat-Condom.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Damian? Who the heck is Damian?
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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by danelsan » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:43 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:23 pm
Basically, Ronda Rousey in a cape.
Hopefully with a non-terrible striking coach, though XD

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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:54 am

Decades ago, I heard Batman explained as: Batman is the second best in the DC Universe.

Mister Miracle is the best escape artist. Batman's second.
Green Arrow is the best archer. Batman's second.
Lady Shiva is the best martial artist. Batman's second.
Sherlock Holmes (who was still alive in the DCU as late as 1984) is the best detective. Batman's second.
Dick Grayson is the best acrobat. Batman's second.

and so on.

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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:00 am

In one of my head DC canons (yes, I have multiple), Harvey Harris' niece Wendy took up the identity of the Huntress, which is why she calss Batman, in private, "Uncle Bruce". Her friend, Marvin White, who was the son of the woman formerly known as Prince, took on the role of the Protector.

I doubt these ideas would get much support.

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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Ares » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:33 am

Something extremely minor but lets talk about Electro.

I like Electro as a villain. Not in the sense that Electro has some deep character motivation, original background or the like. I just like him the reason I like a lot of Spider-Man / Batman / Flash style villains: sometimes they're just dumb criminals that luck into a ton of power, and use that power for criminal fame and fortune because they're bad people. They aren't going to try and take over the world, but they're fun for a single issue or as part of a team of villains.

The one sticking point with Electro, as with some villains, is that they keep trying to re-design the guys look, because some people see his outfit as silly. Part of the problem with that is superhero costumes would more or less be immune to fashion. They're basically god-like celebrities who have had their own fashion sense since the 1940s, and have possibly influenced the fashion of their world. You need something that looks unique and stylish. People might think Hawkeye's old purple duds look goofy, but I'll take the mask with the Wolverine points over the black jumpsuit any day.

Still, I will also admit that not all outfit updates are bad. Spidey's black costume was immensely cool, and only loses out due to the equal coolness of the classic costume that also has iconography on its side. Superman's outfit also went through several iterations before it settled in on the 'iconic' look we have today.

So I wondered if there was a way to update Electro's outfit without losing that classic, iconic look. Because I hate the energy body they gave him in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and the Amazing Spider-Man movie. And I don't like the black star face paint I've seen with modern looks.

My idea was partially inspired by the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series, where Electro was a guy in a containment suit. While I had mixed feelings about that, one way they kind of managed the "Lightning Starfish" look on his face was by having the electricity roiling on his face sort of create that pattern.

So I thought I'd make Electro have a fairly basic outfit, possibly Hydra or AIM designed to help regulate his powers and protect him from water, but when he powers up, the electrical effect creates glowing lightning patters along his arms and legs, and the "Lightning Starfish" is created by energy playing around his face.

Image

Now on the one hand, I'm fine with Electro just having an ugly fashion sense and people just stop trying to make this jobber look cool. But on the other hand, I kind of like that look. Let me know what you think.

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Re: Comics: How would you fix / improve _______ character / concept?

Post by Ares » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:41 am

Ken wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:54 am
Decades ago, I heard Batman explained as: Batman is the second best in the DC Universe.

Mister Miracle is the best escape artist. Batman's second.
Green Arrow is the best archer. Batman's second.
Lady Shiva is the best martial artist. Batman's second.
Sherlock Holmes (who was still alive in the DCU as late as 1984) is the best detective. Batman's second.
Dick Grayson is the best acrobat. Batman's second.

and so on.
That's kind of how I look at it, though I'd say in modern times, Batman is the World's Greatest Detective. But I do think that there's few people otherwise that Batman is better than if they focus in that field. Like, I'd say Lady Shiva, Cassie Caine, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, Iron Fist and Shang Chi are all better martial artists than Bruce. And personally, I'd want to put Black Canary there as well.

But the thing with Bruce is that he isn't the top of his field in anything but being a detective, but he's in the top 10-20 spot in virtually every skill on the planet.

One episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold put it best. Batman was fighting the Bronze Tiger, and like in the comics, in a straight up fight, Bruce was losing. Ben even says, "I'm better than you, Batman, and you know it."

Batman then says, "True. But our master also taught us: when outmatched,cheat." Batman then pulls out some weapons from his utility belt in a surprise attack, and uses the surprise to get Ben in an armlock he can't break out of, forcing him to surrender.

Basically, Batman won't win by trying to beat you at your own game. He'll change the rules of the game and make you play it his way.

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