What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:49 pm

Woodclaw wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:03 pm
Ares wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:19 pm
So Bendis started out with sending Lois and Clark's son away, something Clark didn't want. And now Lois wants to take a break from married life, because they "will never be a normal family, so why pretend to be one?". They aren't technically divorced, but they are effectively broken up for the immediate future, likely as long as Bendis is writing the character.

This really feels like Bendis saw all the work that had been done making Clark and Lois a real family with their son, and said, "Nah, screw that", and shoved it all to the side. I feel my earlier fears about Bendis' jump to DC are pretty justified right now.
Why does this sound like something I've already seen?
Next Lois will make a deal with Mr. Mxyzptlk to undo their marriage and allow Clark to be Superman 24/7...
Not Mxyzptlk. Neron.
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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:51 pm

Well, on the positive side, I'm really, really enjoying the current Hawkman book. Since Hawkman rivals Billy Batson and Ted Kord for the spot as my favourite super-hero, this is a good feeling.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:48 pm

I know Hawkman is sometimes given roughly the same respect pre-movie Aquaman was (ie, none by pop-culture), but I always thought that if you hybrid-ized the character's Golden Age and Silver Age origins the way Johns did (making him both an alien space cop and reincarnated Egyptian prince), you're left with someone who has the adventures of Indiana Jones adventures, the fighting style of Conan the Barbarian, and the kind of cool sci-fi elements of John Carter of Mars. It's like this grab-bag of Pulp awesomeness.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:31 am

Well, when I was first reading comics (like when I was 5 or 6), I honestly couldn't tell Carter and Katar apart. Not from the handful of stories I'd read, and not when Carter's headgear kept changing. That said, by the time I was 8, I could tell Carter and Katar apart. Which mean it really wasn't that hard to tell them apart. And the thing was, I loved both Hawk-couples. The silver age Hawkman stories, when it was Katar and Shayera particularly impressed me because of the whole husband-wife-as-equals, and the strip's "Lois Lane" really was a man-hungry broad and potential home-wrecker. That struck me as having more verisimilitude then the whole Superdickery think Clark was doing with Lois.

Full disclosure: I didn't read any stories with Shiera Sanders as Carter's Hawkgirl until All-Star Squadron, and I was in my 30s before I ever found one of the 'Hawkman and Hawkgirl' stories from Flash Comics (i.e. the 1940s).

But I also liked having the science-fiction Hawks AND the sword-and-sorcery Hawks separate.

I loved the Hawkworld 3-issue prestige book , which I just read as the 'prequel' to Brave and the Bold 34. I've read that that was Tim Truman's intent.

I was pissed when the Hawkworld ongoing got going, and they flushed *my* Katar and Shayera out of existence. Plus, it was one more crime against continuity that was born- from the damned last two issues of Crisis.

All that said, this take, it's got a couple of things. Hawkgirl isn't in it. Which means the equal partnership thing that I loved still isn't back. But it also means they aren't teasing us with the "will they or won't they" crap they've been pushing for the past 28 years.

They've also hybridized the origins now far better than Johns did. They are now saying that Hawkman has been reincarnating not only across time, but also across space. So now, yes, Katar and Carter were always the same same person, they just didn't know it. They've actually opened things up. The reincarnation isn't because of the stuff in ancient Egypt. It's bigger than that.

Plus, it's a weird feeling to actually be exited about a mainstream DC book again after a decade.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Woodclaw » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:42 am

Ares wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:48 pm
I know Hawkman is sometimes given roughly the same respect pre-movie Aquaman was (ie, none by pop-culture), but I always thought that if you hybrid-ized the character's Golden Age and Silver Age origins the way Johns did (making him both an alien space cop and reincarnated Egyptian prince), you're left with someone who has the adventures of Indiana Jones adventures, the fighting style of Conan the Barbarian, and the kind of cool sci-fi elements of John Carter of Mars. It's like this grab-bag of Pulp awesomeness.
It's intertesting that you mentioned Conan, because when Robinson & Goyer rebooted the JSA around 1999, the way they described Hawkman was pretty much straight out of a R.E. Howard book.

"Hawkman -- his power -- apart from flight -- was an anger in battle, a savage fury that made him mightier than any civilized man of today." (Rex Tyler)
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:49 am

I'm still not happy with most of the industry. Heroes in Crisis is a hot mess, Doomsday Clock is a regular mess, Ta-Nehisi Coatesetc continues to justify every negative thing said about him, Bendis continues to kill the Superman franchise, etc.

But credit where credit is due: the new Amazing Spider-Man series has been a solid Spider-Man run. Peter and MJ are back together in a natural way, and while Spencer does push the "can't get no respect" angle a bit much, this really feels like 90% of a good Spider-Man book, where Peter is actually funny and the relationship between him and MJ feels spot on. The latest issue even had a really good run down of who Peter is and why MJ loves him so much.

And the first issue of Iron Heart basically asked the readers to forget most of what the character has done in the past, but in exchange gives us someone who actually resembles a decent comic character. We'll have to see if they can stick the landing, but it's better than what's been done with her in the past.

So yeah, not all doom and gloom for a change.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:34 am

What is Coates doing that’s so bad? I haven’t followed his Cap run.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:34 am
What is Coates doing that’s so bad? I haven’t followed his Cap run.
He's basically said that a large portion of the "flyover states" (everything west of Chicago and easy of Vegas) are Russian collaborators waiting to happen. That there is a literal army of people who will happily join up with Russia and see them as liberators, aiding them in overthrowing the US government. That the very heartland of the country is essentially Russian and happily sign up to join with a Russian supervillain.

You see, those States voted for Trump, and to this day there's people that insist that Russia meaningfully interfered with the US elections to make Trump president. Ergo, these people may just as well be Russian collaborators.

Image

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Voltron64 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:20 am

Ares wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 am
Jabroniville wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:34 am
What is Coates doing that’s so bad? I haven’t followed his Cap run.
He's basically said that a large portion of the "flyover states" (everything west of Chicago and easy of Vegas) are Russian collaborators waiting to happen. That there is a literal army of people who will happily join up with Russia and see them as liberators, aiding them in overthrowing the US government. That the very heartland of the country is essentially Russian and happily sign up to join with a Russian supervillain.

You see, those States voted for Trump, and to this day there's people that insist that Russia meaningfully interfered with the US elections to make Trump president. Ergo, these people may just as well be Russian collaborators.

Image
How to make this fun.

Insert the Soviet Union anthem playing in the background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFNRlvEh7ok

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by BriarThrone » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:44 pm

If she was talking about the West Coast, she may have a solid point. Comparing the ideological agenda of the authoritarian left and what we've learned about Soviet tactics for undermining the US... there's an awful lot of overlap. Even an alarming number of hammer-and-sickle flags.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:07 pm

I'm not a fan of generalizing any large swath of Americans as potential traitors unless they prove otherwise. If they wanted to say a small group like Antifa was, well, they already claim to be communists and are actual violent thugs, so it works. But to paint several states as essentially being traitors to their country is just wrong, IMO.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Shock » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:21 pm

Ares wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:49 am
But credit where credit is due: the new Amazing Spider-Man series has been a solid Spider-Man run. Peter and MJ are back together in a natural way, and while Spencer does push the "can't get no respect" angle a bit much, this really feels like 90% of a good Spider-Man book, where Peter is actually funny and the relationship between him and MJ feels spot on. The latest issue even had a really good run down of who Peter is and why MJ loves him so much.
I like the new Spiderman with Mary Jane and the bit with Black Cat was good but the Thieves Guild plot made no sense at all. There was no explanation of how they managed to steal equipment from every superhero in NY (and beyond) without anyone realizing it. And then at the end they imply they didn't really want the gear and it was just a ploy to get pickpockets and other small time crooks to start giving them a cut again. Really?

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:53 pm

Shock wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:21 pm
Ares wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:49 am
But credit where credit is due: the new Amazing Spider-Man series has been a solid Spider-Man run. Peter and MJ are back together in a natural way, and while Spencer does push the "can't get no respect" angle a bit much, this really feels like 90% of a good Spider-Man book, where Peter is actually funny and the relationship between him and MJ feels spot on. The latest issue even had a really good run down of who Peter is and why MJ loves him so much.
I like the new Spiderman with Mary Jane and the bit with Black Cat was good but the Thieves Guild plot made no sense at all. There was no explanation of how they managed to steal equipment from every superhero in NY (and beyond) without anyone realizing it. And then at the end they imply they didn't really want the gear and it was just a ploy to get pickpockets and other small time crooks to start giving them a cut again. Really?
I can actually see that working. The Thieves Guild is just that: a bunch of thieves. They aren't interested in ruling the world or amassing a collection of powerful artifacts. They just want money. And they use to be feared and respected, getting a cut from criminals big and small, before they lost their prestige. The idea of doing something bold to remind crooks of their power is a good one, and stealing stuff from superheroes is actually a good way to showcase their reach and abilities.

I mean, if someone stole the Batmobile, and didn't get dropped off at Arkham, broken and bleeding, the very next morning? That person would gain some pretty serious credibility in the criminal underworld. It's likely one reason why Catwoman is so well regarded: not only is she amazingly skilled, she manages to pull off heists in Gotham without Batman catching her. Now, we know its because Bruce and Selina are in love and she generally is very careful about her targets while in Gotham, but the rest of the DCU doesn't know that.

Granted, the lazy part comes when they just manage to magically steal things like the EYE OF AGGAMOTTO from Dr. Strange with no explanation. They should have either offered up some plausible reasons or shown us how they pull it off.

But it fixed Felicia's personality, it was a fun story, and they had a Ms. Marvel joke that made me laugh, so I can't complain too much.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by BriarThrone » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:25 am

Ares wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:07 pm
I'm not a fan of generalizing any large swath of Americans as potential traitors unless they prove otherwise. If they wanted to say a small group like Antifa was, well, they already claim to be communists and are actual violent thugs, so it works. But to paint several states as essentially being traitors to their country is just wrong, IMO.
Deliberately or not, several major American institutions have adopted philosophies that attempt to shape America in the specific ways that the Soviets tried to shape America via propaganda efforts. The entertainment industry in California, in particular, has shaped a massive swath of the culture. Particularly in parts of California, Oregon, and Washington. Current Marvel, too, as you can see, is very much of the "communism never really failed" and "capitalism and fascism are the same thing" persuasion. Plus the whole "America is a horrible racist/misogynist/homophobic place and everyone should resist the awful straight white man!" shtick. That's right - intersectional feminism is a Kremlin plot, according to captured documents.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Voltron64 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:42 am

BriarThrone wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:25 am
Ares wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:07 pm
I'm not a fan of generalizing any large swath of Americans as potential traitors unless they prove otherwise. If they wanted to say a small group like Antifa was, well, they already claim to be communists and are actual violent thugs, so it works. But to paint several states as essentially being traitors to their country is just wrong, IMO.
Deliberately or not, several major American institutions have adopted philosophies that attempt to shape America in the specific ways that the Soviets tried to shape America via propaganda efforts. The entertainment industry in California, in particular, has shaped a massive swath of the culture. Particularly in parts of California, Oregon, and Washington. Current Marvel, too, as you can see, is very much of the "communism never really failed" and "capitalism and fascism are the same thing" persuasion. Plus the whole "America is a horrible racist/misogynist/homophobic place and everyone should resist the awful straight white man!" shtick. That's right - intersectional feminism is a Kremlin plot, according to captured documents.
Uh huh, and I'm sure the US Army also attempted to assassinate boxing promoter Bob Arum...

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