What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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HalloweenJack
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by HalloweenJack »

yeah, to the best of my knowledge only Sonja and Kull interacted with the Marvel heroes.

I gotta admit, I'm not a huge Aaron fan, but his Conan has been pretty decent thus far.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Woodclaw »

Ares wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:25 am
Davies wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:57 am
Ares wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:39 am

Huh. I thought they lost the Conan rights to Dark Horse, and that Dynamite currently has the rights to Red Sonja.
Where I'd heard that they got them back -- as Dark Horse is really not doing very well these days -- but was expecting any series featuring him to be as siloed from the MU as their Star Wars books are.
It is kind of funny that it took this long for an official Conan crossover with the Marvel Universe. Red Sonja had a crossover with Spider-Man as early as the late 70s. Aside from a few What Ifs, Conan never really got to interact with other Marvel heroes, at least as far as I know.
In the '80s Marvel published a sort of historical compendium, which acknowledged the Hyborian Age as part of Earth 616 continuity, but there were never any direct interactions between the two, except for a couple of references by Dr. Strange.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Jabroniville »

Didn't Conan fight Captain America once?
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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:13 pm Didn't Conan fight Captain America once?
That was in one of the What Ifs I mentioned.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

So I just found out about this guy:

Image
Image

Introduced in James Robinson's Wonder Woman, Jason here is the son of Zeus and Hippolyta, and Diana's twin brother. Apparently he was born the same night as Diana, but because the Amazons wouldn't have been too keen on a boy on the island, he was magically sent to live with a Greek fisherman. He was born not only with Diana's strength, durability and flight, but also apparently Zeus' control over the elements. The armor he's wearing also allows him to copy any power of the Olympian pantheon, but only one at a time. So he can gain Zeus' lightning or Athena's wisdom as the situation calls for it. Apparently the armor was originally meant for Diana, but the other gods decided to give it to Jason instead, remolding it to make it fit him and bonding it to him.

Originally set up as an antagonist, Jason soon chooses to become a hero, but soon after must sacrifice himself when several Dark Gods come to Earth. After the Dark Gods make short work of the Justice League, Jason uses the Wisdom of Athena to see that Diana might be able to defeat said gods on her own, but it would destroy most of the planet. Instead, he sacrifices himself to give the gods what they want: a means of penetrating the Source Wall and maybe finding their way home. So the Dark Gods take control of him and use him to leave this universe, effectively killing him for the time being. He might possibly return, but at the moment this is the end of his story.

Such a weird character. Alluded to in the Darkseid War, roughly a year spent searching for him, and he winds up basically a MacGuffin to end a storyline. That seems like such a James Robinson thing to do.

This just reminds me of why I don't like the whole "Diana is a child of Zeus" thing. With Diana originally being sculpted from clay, the only way you were going to get "suddenly introduced sibling" storylines was if you introduced some really stupid retcons with Donna Troy (see John Byrne's stupid mirror twin retcon), or if DC decided to make Lyta Trevor Hippolyta's biological daughter. With her being a child of Zeus, not only does she already have half a dozen siblings already (ie, half of the Greek Pantheon she's suppose to worship), but you can just randomly introduce a new one like Jason here. Though making him literally Diana's twin brother is an extra level of cheese.

The armor gimmick is kind of interesting, as it's basically a re-purposed version of The Son of Vulcan's schtick, where he not only had access to several Vulcan forged weapons, but could temporarily borrow certain powers or blessings from the other Olympians. It was a pretty cool concept for a hero, even if it wasn't used very long.

I hope he doesn't wind up becoming an excuse to give Diana a power-up, like the weather control powers are something she can develop now that she's aware of them. Or that he'll come back, still possessed and in need of killing, so Diana has to kill him and gets to claim the armor for herself.

This also reminds me of why I don't really buy the whole "Women in Refrigerators" concept, the idea that it's a gendered issue of female characters being killed off to give male heroes character growth. Virtually anytime something bad happens to a supporting character, its done to affect the main hero in some way. It just happens that most comic heroes are male, and the most important people in their lives are frequently female. When you have a female heroine like Wonder Woman, you get similar storylines of dead boyfriends and brothers meant to give her character growth.

I will say that it's refreshing to have a positive male character in Wonder Woman. They could have easily gone the route of making him her evil twin brother, but they had him as an inexperienced force for good, however briefly. I'd honestly like to see more things where you had a female hero with a male sidekick, so that women can be a good role-model to male characters, as well as vice versa.

The art in the book was also fantastic.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by BlueBiscuit »

I quit following DC and Marvel a few years back, around Forever Evil for DC and before Marvel did their whole Multiversal war thing, and I'm looking to get back into reading comics from the big two, so I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or recommendations, both for ongoings or past run.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader »

Hey! Welcome, my friend, always good to "see" a new member of the community.

As far as series from the Big Two-well, from Marvel, I am enjoying The Immortal Hulk, Superior Spider-Man, and occasionally I'll pick up a few issues of Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, , and X-23; on the DC side, Damage, The Flash, The Terrifics, and every so often Harley Quinn; both Green Lantern and Freedom Fighters seem promising, and the Super-Sons limited series has been a lot of fun.

All my best.
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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

If you can find it, the trades of DC Comics' Future Quest was a lot of fun. The 2017 Spectacular Spider-Man stuff was actually very good. The recent main Avengers book is pretty decent.

I'd avoid the more recent Captain America stuff, tho. Ta Nehisis Coates and Nick Spencer have done Steve no favors.

The DCU is kind of a mess right now, with two Event Comics happening at the same time: Heroes in Crisis and Doomsday Clock. The former is just not very good, and the latter is dragging on forever.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

So in recent comic book news:

People are finally admitting that the comic industry is in trouble due to store closure and low sales. The first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging it exists, so perhaps there's some hope.

Tom King is thankfully being removed from Batman. Now if only they'd retcon "Heroes in Crisis" out of existence and take Cecil Castellucci's Female Furies book with it.

Squirrel Girl is apparently finally being canceled for low sales, and Unstoppable Wasp is being canceled for the second time in a year.

Overall, it's been a pretty good week in comics news.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader »

Heroes in Crisis and Doomsday Clock should both be consigned to Elseworlds status at best; I wouldn't mind if neither were ever finished. There is real talent on those series, but it's being wasted on two horribly conceived stories.

Tom King's early run on Batman was pretty solid, though I don't think his take on the character was ever quite spot-on. But as it progressed, Mr. King seemed too determined on working out his own personal story in the pages of the book...and Batman shouldn't be a vehicle for that.

As to the Squirrel Girl and Wasp books...comics NEED to appeal to all sorts of demographics if they're going to continue as an industry; so books targeting teen/tween girls are nothing to discourage. And I actually read a few issues of the "Unstoppable" Wasp's first series, and they weren't bad-not outright good, but basically OK. But for those kinds of books to succeed, they can't be mediocre, and they can't JUST be about appealing to a new demographic, or pushing "girl-power"-they have to tell solid stories. And they have to get a marketing push.

(And in the case of Squirrel Girl [or Hellcat], the art cannot be freaking garish and messy looking! Stop cheaping out on artists, Marvel!)

DC actually succeeded in this with their Superhero Girls and YJ animated series, both of which went after young audiences, and both heavy on elements appreciated by female fans.

All my best.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

greycrusader wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 10:21 pm As to the Squirrel Girl and Wasp books...comics NEED to appeal to all sorts of demographics if they're going to continue as an industry; so books targeting teen/tween girls are nothing to discourage. And I actually read a few issues of the "Unstoppable" Wasp's first series, and they weren't bad-not outright good, but basically OK. But for those kinds of books to succeed, they can't be mediocre, and they can't JUST be about appealing to a new demographic, or pushing "girl-power"-they have to tell solid stories. And they have to get a marketing push.

(And in the case of Squirrel Girl [or Hellcat], the art cannot be freaking garish and messy looking! Stop cheaping out on artists, Marvel!)

DC actually succeeded in this with their Superhero Girls and YJ animated series, both of which went after young audiences, and both heavy on elements appreciated by female fans.

All my best.
I do agree that comics need books to appeal to a younger generation and young girls in particular if they want the industry to recover and thrive. Comics writers knew this way back in the 40s when the Captain Marvel writers created Capt. Marvel Jr. to appeal to the angsty crowd and Mary Marvel to appeal to young girls.

The problem is that neither book was very good, and often came loaded with all of these problems and issues. They were basically meant to push agendas rather than be entertaining or tell good stories.

As I said before:
Ares wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:13 am The re-launch of Unstoppable Wasp came out as well, and that book remains terrible, mainly because it continues the fallacy that women are somehow being kept out of STEM fields, when in reality no one is being prevented from going into said fields, it's just that on average women gravitate towards other fields.

The name G.I.R.L. is also really stupid, because it stands for Genius In Action Research Laboratories, which should either be G.I.A.R.L. (which sounds like a noise from Homestar Runner) or the name should be Genius Inaction Research Laboratories, which would actually fit better because these characters never DO anything.

And it's a shame, because Nadia Pym is actually a decent character, being a very sweet girl who is kind of clueless of the outside world who genuinely wants to help people. There were some very stupid moments (like her having read Ms. Marvel's fanfiction, or her talk with Mockingbird becoming the whole foundation for G.I.R.L.), but Nadia herself is actually a nice character, and WAY more likable than Riri Williams, and less annoying than Moongirl can be.

I'd say the biggest misstep with her was making her a Wasp and making her Hank Pym's kid. Making her the Wasp takes away from Jan, who was one of Marvel's first superheroes, a founding member of the Avengers and recurring leader of said team, who also has an actual fun personality. Making her Hank Pym's daughter seems like just another reason to shit on Hank Pym, and Nadia taking Jan's last name also just further disrespects her father.

Honestly, they should have given Nadia's personality to Riri, because then you would have had the contrast of someone sweet and kind taking over for Tony (who is basically something of a responsible, good intentioned snarky asshat), instead of Riri basically being a psychopath. Or have Nadia not be related to Hank but figured out his Pym particles and based her identity on the Wasp, calling herself The Stinger or The Hornet or something similar. Heck, the original Hornet from the Slingers was killed off pointlessly, why not have her take his name, modify his gear and be a legacy to a fallen hero rather than basically stealing Jan's name?

It's a weird thing where I like the character's personality and her general abilities, but hate pretty much everything else surrounding her. The irony of her book being called "The Unstoppable Wasp" when it was canceled in less than 10 issues wasn't lost on a lot of people, and I'm curious how long this version of the Completely Stoppable Wasp will last before cancellation?
Incidentally, to answer my question at the end "Actually Completely Stoppable Wasp" wound lasting less than a year after its previous cancellation. It was cancelled twice in one year. With the same creative team. That's just bad.

As for Squirrel Girl . . .
Ares wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:10 am
Image

I fucking HATE Squirrel Girl.
Yep, that last line still holds true.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader »

Eh, apparently the title lasted nearly five years, along with an original graphic novel AND a YA tie-in novel. That is not at all a bad run, so it clearly appealed to the demographic.

That said, the above panels are...yeah, the book wasn't for me.

All my best.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

greycrusader wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 12:55 pm Eh, apparently the title lasted nearly five years, along with an original graphic novel AND a YA tie-in novel. That is not at all a bad run, so it clearly appealed to the demographic.

That said, the above panels are...yeah, the book wasn't for me.

All my best.
From what I understand, and I could be wrong, the sales for Squirrel Girl were consistently terrible, but for some reason they just refused to cancel it. Marvel's been shipping less than 10,000 copies of it regularly for years now. I imagine the only reason it was cancelled while Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel kept getting cancelled and relaunched was that they knew if they cancelled Squirrel Girl, not as many people would care about the relaunch.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader »

I instead imagine the graphic novels, the YA tie-on, and collected editions sold well, with the comic being a loss-leader. Digital copies likely also made up some of the slack, since the target audience was young teen/tween girls, who are more into reading on devices than going into comic shops.

I'm not saying big companies like Marvel won't tolerate the occasional "agenda" book losing money if the creators have enough clout or or well connected enough, but that probably couldn't continue for 5 years-the new Wasp, the U.S. Avengers, Redwolf, the black Nighthawk-they ALL got canceled right quick,and all were pretty much in line with what's perceived as "SJW" culture. So Ms. Marvel and Squirrel likely are/were money-makers, if only modestly so.

All my best.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

So, I haven't been paying attention to the Thor books much since Marvel introduced Jane Foster's Thor, since every time I looked into it I got really mad at the disrespect the current writers gave to the past franchise and the sub-textless propaganda the book was promoting. But apparently JANE FOSTER is now ALL-MOTHER OF ASGARD? And they're apparently going to make Jane the new Valkyrie?
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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