What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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MacynSnow
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by MacynSnow » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:49 pm

Chris Brady wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:33 pm
I heard that DC has gotten another CEO, and she's not the type to suffer low sales.
Hey,that means there's HOPE at the end of this Tunnel of Misery! :D

Chris Brady
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Chris Brady » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:37 am

MacynSnow wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:49 pm
Chris Brady wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:33 pm
I heard that DC has gotten another CEO, and she's not the type to suffer low sales.
Hey,that means there's HOPE at the end of this Tunnel of Misery! :D
Or she'll just sell the characters to other companies, like Marvel did in the 90's to try and get money from them.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:07 pm

So anyone reading DC's newest event, Heroes in Crisis? Because wow, it's pretty much everything I didn't like about Identity Crisis (which was 85% of it), but dealing with the added benefit of dealing with Tom King's PTSD.

RUSCHE
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:47 pm

Ares wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:07 pm
So anyone reading DC's newest event, Heroes in Crisis? Because wow, it's pretty much everything I didn't like about Identity Crisis (which was 85% of it), but dealing with the added benefit of dealing with Tom King's PTSD.
Read it and did not like it. The tone was off and why the Hell tarnish ALL of the heroes in such a way as to make them seem broken to the point of being almost pitiful. Is that a trend? I am at a loss on what this storyline will achieve. If you wanted to focus on 1 heroe having a personal crisis and the road to mental well being , that would work. This I am not sure . I cancelled all my Dc pulls, and the only Marvel pull I have is Immortal Hulk.

Shock
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Shock » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:23 pm

Once again, I feel fortunate that the books I read don't tend to get attached to the company wide events.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:56 pm

RUSCHE wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:47 pm
Ares wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:07 pm
So anyone reading DC's newest event, Heroes in Crisis? Because wow, it's pretty much everything I didn't like about Identity Crisis (which was 85% of it), but dealing with the added benefit of dealing with Tom King's PTSD.
Read it and did not like it. The tone was off and why the Hell tarnish ALL of the heroes in such a way as to make them seem broken to the point of being almost pitiful. Is that a trend? I am at a loss on what this storyline will achieve. If you wanted to focus on 1 heroe having a personal crisis and the road to mental well being , that would work. This I am not sure . I cancelled all my Dc pulls, and the only Marvel pull I have is Immortal Hulk.
Two words: Dan DiDio. This is dumpster fire has the same earmarks of his other projects like the Nu-52, Countdown and the worst parts of Infinite Crisis. I'll have to find a video Prof. Geek did that outlines it perfectly, but suffice to say, Dan is doing DC no matter favors.

RUSCHE
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:09 pm

Ares wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:56 pm
RUSCHE wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:47 pm
Ares wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:07 pm
So anyone reading DC's newest event, Heroes in Crisis? Because wow, it's pretty much everything I didn't like about Identity Crisis (which was 85% of it), but dealing with the added benefit of dealing with Tom King's PTSD.
Read it and did not like it. The tone was off and why the Hell tarnish ALL of the heroes in such a way as to make them seem broken to the point of being almost pitiful. Is that a trend? I am at a loss on what this storyline will achieve. If you wanted to focus on 1 heroe having a personal crisis and the road to mental well being , that would work. This I am not sure . I cancelled all my Dc pulls, and the only Marvel pull I have is Immortal Hulk.
Two words: Dan DiDio. This is dumpster fire has the same earmarks of his other projects like the Nu-52, Countdown and the worst parts of Infinite Crisis. I'll have to find a video Prof. Geek did that outlines it perfectly, but suffice to say, Dan is doing DC no matter favors.
Sad that our Icons of doing what is right and just being the epitome of the best of humanity gets the drag through the mud to sell a story.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:29 pm

Here's a couple of videos. Prof. Geek is interesting in that he's a college professor who looks at superheroes from a folklore and mythological perspective as well as a literary one, and tries to figure out what makes them work while criticizing mishandling of the characters as he sees them. Check them out, they pretty much encapsulate my thoughts exactly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TfEJrkFh8A&t=3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teJxQs0Qrns

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm

Let's see, it's a Tuesday . . . Yep, Namor's a villain again.

RUSCHE
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:58 am

Ares wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Let's see, it's a Tuesday . . . Yep, Namor's a villain again.
Straight up villian....

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:53 am

RUSCHE wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:58 am
Ares wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Let's see, it's a Tuesday . . . Yep, Namor's a villain again.
Straight up villian....
Straight up "beat a fellow superhero who was just trying to talk within an inch of his life and then have a bunch of sharks completely devour him while he barely hangs on to consciousness" villain. Yeah it was Stingray, yeah I'm probably the only person who cares, but damnit, Stingray was a hero in Marvel for decades, he was a useful background hero and one of Marvels few aquatic good guys, and he was just murdered Geoff Johns/James Robinson style to show off how serious the new villain threat is. And I hate that.

They just broke a toy in the toybox to show how cool the current toy is.

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Woodclaw
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Woodclaw » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:13 am

Ares wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:53 am
RUSCHE wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:58 am
Ares wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Let's see, it's a Tuesday . . . Yep, Namor's a villain again.
Straight up villian....
Straight up "beat a fellow superhero who was just trying to talk within an inch of his life and then have a bunch of sharks completely devour him while he barely hangs on to consciousness" villain. Yeah it was Stingray, yeah I'm probably the only person who cares, but damnit, Stingray was a hero in Marvel for decades, he was a useful background hero and one of Marvels few aquatic good guys, and he was just murdered Geoff Johns/James Robinson style to show off how serious the new villain threat is. And I hate that.

They just broke a toy in the toybox to show how cool the current toy is.
So they got Namor to murder one of the only three people he ever considered a friend in the surface world (the others being Steve Rogers and Jim Hammond) just to showcase how far he would go... I can't even comment. What's going to be next for thwe Sub-Mariner? Drugging and raping Sue Richards?
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RUSCHE
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:34 pm

Ares wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:53 am
RUSCHE wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:58 am
Ares wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm
Let's see, it's a Tuesday . . . Yep, Namor's a villain again.
Straight up villian....
Straight up "beat a fellow superhero who was just trying to talk within an inch of his life and then have a bunch of sharks completely devour him while he barely hangs on to consciousness" villain. Yeah it was Stingray, yeah I'm probably the only person who cares, but damnit, Stingray was a hero in Marvel for decades, he was a useful background hero and one of Marvels few aquatic good guys, and he was just murdered Geoff Johns/James Robinson style to show off how serious the new villain threat is. And I hate that.

They just broke a toy in the toybox to show how cool the current toy is.
I have the book, it diminishes what they ate trying to do with him, Namor works best as a no nonsense Anti Hero, not a straight up murderer. I like Namor, I want him to shine..not like this. Stingrays treatment was horrible and with his long history takes away some great story potential. Comics nowadays suck....THE PAIN...THE PAIN....( in my Dr Smith voice).

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:56 pm

Woodclaw wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:13 am
So they got Namor to murder one of the only three people he ever considered a friend in the surface world (the others being Steve Rogers and Jim Hammond) just to showcase how far he would go... I can't even comment. What's going to be next for thwe Sub-Mariner? Drugging and raping Sue Richards?
RUSCHE wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:34 pm
I have the book, it diminishes what they ate trying to do with him, Namor works best as a no nonsense Anti Hero, not a straight up murderer. I like Namor, I want him to shine..not like this. Stingrays treatment was horrible and with his long history takes away some great story potential. Comics nowadays suck....THE PAIN...THE PAIN....( in my Dr Smith voice).
Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I know I'm very . . . peculiar at times with the kind of rants I go on, but I'm against casually killing off characters as a rule, especially not for stuff like this.

I've said it before, but I view fictional settings with large casts of characters as essentially a giant toybox, with each character being a toy inside of it. A writers job is to essentially be a little kid and play with whatever toy he has so well, have so much fun with it and tell such great stories with it, that everyone else is going to want to play with that toy too.

Now some toys are more popular than others. There are usually several Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, Hulk, Wonder Woman and Iron Man toys that are near the top of the toybox, and pretty much everyone wants to play with them. Just below them you get the single action figures that are still popular, your Green Lantern, Flash, Hawkeye, Teen Titans and X-Men figures basically. Then you dig a little deeper and you get the single figures that are less popular but still have their fans, and who have the potential to be super popular with the right people; ie your Captain Marvel, Iron Fist and Luke Cage figures. And below them you get the figures that don't get played with very often at all, but can get brought out on occasion by their small number of fans, and who like to use them for certain stuff. Guys like Stingray, Speedball, etc.

Now, sometimes a toy can get played with so well that it's popularity skyrockets (Christopher Priest's Black Panther, Bendis' Luke Cage), and you get more versions of it and it sits higher up in the toybox pile. Sometimes some kid plays with a toy the wrong way (often times by trying to use markers to make the toy cooler, ie "to put his own mark on the character"), and the toy winds up disfigured or broken, and actually loses popularity (The Spider-Clone Saga, Electro-Superman, Hydra-Cap, 95% of the Nu-52). And sometimes it takes someone to come in and clean up/fix a broken toy to make them popular again (85% of Rebirth, The Immortal Iron Fist, JMS Spider-Man). And sometimes a toy can just be broken so badly that it's taken out of the toybox altogether (Mongul, Angar the Screamer, and now Stingray).

Generally speaking, I'm against taking a toy out of the toybox outside of very specific circumstances. Generally speaking, the removal should be an amazing story and/or make some other toy with potential into something great. Angar the Screamer is a good example, since while his removal deprives us of a goofy 70s throwback badguy, it also turned Screaming Mimi into Songbird, which is a fair trade in my book. Whereas killing off characters like the New Bloods, the Global Guardians, the New Warriors, the Titans, and the like just to pump up a threat or out of sheer spite is completely wasteful. Because then if someone wants to try and have their own Immortal Iron Fist series that makes an old character super popular, they have to go through some process of bringing them back, which leads to the whole "Revolving Door Afterlife" stigma comics has.

It seemed like writers before the 2000s were more concerned about taking care of the toys they played with, making sure they were in as good condition as they left them and making sure things were nice and orderly for the next kids that would come in and play with them. Writers today seem all too eager to break the toys they find, to modify them in weird ways (putting a female toy's head on Thor's body for instance, or painting Capt. America in Hydra colors), essentially putting their signature on the toy and letting everyone know they did this, rather than just making sure the toy is in good condition for the next kids. And they're all too happy to break the less popular toys to make a point.

Just keep these characters alive and in the background. You never know, someone might surprise you with what they come up with.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:06 pm

Absolutely and 100% agree!!! Dust of the old ones and expand you story telling potential. Stingray could have been so instrumental in Namors totally understandable rage. He could have been that amazing bridge between Namor's world and the surface. He could have gone on to show it by explaining the beauty he has seen and the amazing discoveries yet to be found. The very IDEA of protecting Atlantis from destruction would have been and should be the surface world priority. IT'S FREAKING ATLANTIS PEOPLE!!

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