What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:22 am

I'm going to pretend all of this was one of Jab's threads.

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MacynSnow
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by MacynSnow » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:51 am

Thanks everybody for filling me in on what that junk was,even though it got into the Politics taboo... :D

Jabroniville
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:10 am

In other news, I found the whole Avengers uber-crossover, while annoyingly lengthy (it's like 12-16 parts! And WEEKLY!), is actually well done in a lot of ways. It uses the various Avengers well, it brings up old villains (the Blood Brothers!), old legacies (a new METAL MASTER?), and creates new characters, and features a not-bad Retcon of sorts involving the Grandmaster (he got too competitive with another Elder of the Universe with a similar gimmick, and exiled him to nothingness; now he's back). Plus his daughter, who initially teased us with one of the more tired modern gimmicks ("The long-lost superhero we all just forgot about!"), but turned out to be a villain in disguise, who'd simply mind-warped everyone into believing her. And then got turned heroic by watching the heroes' sacrifices.

Also, the Hulk is back.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by MacynSnow » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:31 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:10 am
In other news, I found the whole Avengers uber-crossover, while annoyingly lengthy (it's like 12-16 parts! And WEEKLY!), is actually well done in a lot of ways. It uses the various Avengers well, it brings up old villains (the Blood Brothers!), old legacies (a new METAL MASTER?), and creates new characters, and features a not-bad Retcon of sorts involving the Grandmaster (he got too competitive with another Elder of the Universe with a similar gimmick, and exiled him to nothingness; now he's back). Plus his daughter, who initially teased us with one of the more tired modern gimmicks ("The long-lost superhero we all just forgot about!"), but turned out to be a villain in disguise, who'd simply mind-warped everyone into believing her. And then got turned heroic by watching the heroes' sacrifices.

Also, the Hulk is back.
I thought it was ok,as far a resetting the status quo for the Avengers & Marvel (i think they do this every 2 years now,if my math is right) back to what it was.

I'm honestly getting rather sick of it ,to tell you the truth.They originally only did this type of stuff to the Avengers if a new Editor/Writer got put on the book(s) (Operation:Galactic Storm,Avengers Beseiged,The Kree/Skrull War,The Gatherers,Avengers Disassembled,The Krovak Saga,Atlantis Attacks,The Serpent Crown Saga,etc).It was considered a grand event and endings to some old storylines(Vision&Scarlet Witch getting married,Iron Man getting removed as chairman due to drunkenous(?), Hank Pyms Court Martial and later public Trial,Jarvis almost getting beaten to death by Mr.Hyde,Cap's first resignation from team leadership,Captain Marvel's subsequent abduction and rape by Immortus(sort of),et all),now it's just ho-hum.....

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:48 pm

Thor #706 - Guess who's not dead and who's still not worthy?

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This kind of reminds me of that South Park episode where the boys are completely distraught over seeing Indiana Jones getting raped by his creators. For the love of Odin, someone get Jason off of this book so the retcons can start. At least Odin gets portrayed better than before, and the gods are back on Asgard.

The recent Thor book is pretty emblematic of everything fans don't like about the new Marvel. Replacement characters have happened before, certainly. Creators have used the comics to inject their own political views. Retcons are inevitable.

But this was a, pardon the pun, perfect storm of pretty much everything fans hate about the current comics. The reason a lot of people consider Jane a Mary Sue is because of how much twisting and bending he had to do to the Thor mythos to make this story work and make Jane "the better Thor". They even had to get all meta and be about "her story not being over" and the like. So now it sounds like they're going to make a lot of uru hammers so that both Thor and Jane can have one, along with others. I guess it's just that easy now? It was kind of a big deal when they made Stormbreaker back in the day. Maybe the idea will be that each realm has a hammer wielder to protect it, with Jane protecting Earth and Thor protects all Nine Realms? If you had to keep Lady Thor around that wouldn't be a terrible way to do it, but I honestly DO want her story to be over at this point.

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Batgirl III
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:27 pm

There’s a difference between writing a story with a polemic in it and just writing a polemic. Modern Marvel Comics has not figured this out.
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BriarThrone
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by BriarThrone » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:35 pm

Here's how you fix it:

1) Big fight, high stakes. Jane acquits herself well, but is in over her head.

2) Thor steps in and saves the day in a ridiculous display of awesome, where we respect the character and his remaining fans by having him be THOR, SON OF ODIN AND GOD OF THUNDER, TRUE MASTER OF THE HAMMER MJOLNIR, ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES.

3) Jane hands over the original hammer, accepts a lesser weapon, a title that isn't a man's name, and a role of some kind within the pantheon.

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Batgirl III
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 01, 2018 12:58 am

BriarThrone wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:35 pm
3) Jane hands over the original hammer, accepts a lesser weapon, a title that isn't a man's name, and a role of some kind within the pantheon.
4) Then the Goddamn Lady Sif shows up, smacks the faux hammer out of Jane’s hand and explains that this comic has had a bad sass warrior woman in it since 1964. Jane can get her scrawny butt back over to the bench for moody Sixties Love Interests where she belongs.
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MacynSnow
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by MacynSnow » Tue May 01, 2018 1:59 am

IMHO,this Jack#%&+ is trying to make Thor Radioactive so no one'll take it up after he leaves,just so he can hold it hostage when he's brought back on.
This jerk deserves to be dropped toes first into Sutur's fiery buttcrack and have increadibly flammable Dwarven Ale poured on him.

Sweet Odin......

You know,i really honestly have no problem with Jane Foster being a Temporary Thor.They did that one other time and it worked rather well(anyone remember Eric Masterson?),but to say their gonna kill her and yhen bring her back to life next issue is worse than if Loki trolled the universe.....

In fact,that's probably what it's gonna turn out to be.

Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken » Tue May 01, 2018 2:00 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 12:58 am
BriarThrone wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:35 pm
3) Jane hands over the original hammer, accepts a lesser weapon, a title that isn't a man's name, and a role of some kind within the pantheon.
4) Then the Goddamn Lady Sif shows up, smacks the faux hammer out of Jane’s hand and explains that this comic has had a bad sass warrior woman in it since 1964. Jane can get her scrawny butt back over to the bench for moody Sixties Love Interests where she belongs.
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MacynSnow
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by MacynSnow » Tue May 01, 2018 2:38 am

Ken wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:00 am
Batgirl III wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 12:58 am
BriarThrone wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:35 pm
3) Jane hands over the original hammer, accepts a lesser weapon, a title that isn't a man's name, and a role of some kind within the pantheon.
4) Then the Goddamn Lady Sif shows up, smacks the faux hammer out of Jane’s hand and explains that this comic has had a bad sass warrior woman in it since 1964. Jane can get her scrawny butt back over to the bench for moody Sixties Love Interests where she belongs.
AMEN!
Now,while i am a card-carrying member of the Holy Church Of Thor(Long may Odin reign in Asguard),Jane is just as important to the Mythology as Mighty Lady Sif of the Ebony Locks.Jane Foster,Woman of the Midgard realm,adopted daughter of Odin, is supposed to represent the Mortal look at the Nine Realms.Yes,she(like every other mortal in Midgard) is quite foolish & impulsive.But she also teaches Thor how to Love others and be humble,things he was not beforehand.

Now,brothers&sisters,let us turn to Journey Into Mystery # 607:Thor versus Ulik.....

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Batgirl III
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 01, 2018 3:28 am

Jane Foster, Everyman, is a perfectly fine character. I’m actually very fond of the way she was updated in the first Thor film into a smart, brave, and capable woman who probably would have kicked ass in a Jurassic Park scenario... But was clearly in over her head in the Star Wars of the Rings mashup she was actually in. She was pretty great for the first half of Thor 2 and pretty lousy in the last half... But so was everyone else.

Jane Foster needs to be Thor’s Lois Lane. The Everyman who acts as the audience surrogate, the Only Sane Man who keeps the more outré parts of the plot in perspective, and the Adventure Instigator who gives the immortal space-faring dimension-hopping deity a reasons to care about mundane modern Earthlings.

Jane Foster doesn’t need to be Superman. The Thor comics already have one, he’s called Thor. Jane Foster doesn’t need to be Supergirl or Superwoman either. Again, there’s already a half-dozen of them.

Jane Foster should be Jane Foster.

Dammit.
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BriarThrone
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by BriarThrone » Tue May 01, 2018 8:55 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 12:58 am
BriarThrone wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:35 pm
3) Jane hands over the original hammer, accepts a lesser weapon, a title that isn't a man's name, and a role of some kind within the pantheon.
4) Then the Goddamn Lady Sif shows up, smacks the faux hammer out of Jane’s hand and explains that this comic has had a bad sass warrior woman in it since 1964. Jane can get her scrawny butt back over to the bench for moody Sixties Love Interests where she belongs.
This is one of those weird times I make concessions to practicality. Marvel would anger everyone who actually bought and enjoyed Jane-cosplaying-as-Thor with that move (both of them), as well as their entire crop of useless idiot creators. Plus, they'd be admitting defeat in a very big, public debate over their direction, and they won't do that.

You and I know that Marvel could have saved a ton of drama by drawing from their established stories about the gods of Asgard and using THOSE characters, but for Marvel, the time for admitting that is long past.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue May 01, 2018 9:29 pm

One extra annoying bit of the issue is there's a scene where Odin is clearly meant to be a stand-in for the readers who complained about Jane, as he lists everything they complained about while almost literally frothing at the mouth, while Jane just rolls her eyes and says, "Yep, I did all of that, and I'd do it again", before Odin comes to Jane's way of thinking and accepts her. Like I guess the fans were suppose to do. Sorry Jason, that ain't happening.

Someone actually pointed out that if they had actually let Jane die and go to Valhalla, it could have been much better done. Thor could have tried to bring her back, and then utterly failed to do so. Jane could have simply accepted that it was her time to die and that she had a good death. I mean, the whole point of this was that Jane knew that being a hero was slowly killing her, that she'd die if she kept being Lady Thor, but she did so because it would help other people. That's actually heroic.

We could have had Thor dealing with his grief, before eventually going to visit her in Valhalla and gotten some closure, before re-dedicating himself to being a hero. Hell, while he was using the cosmic storm to try and bring Jane back, why not have the energies re-grow his arm, maybe even summon the bits of Mjolnir back and reforge it, make him whole again. Then, Jane can be in Valhalla, spending time with all of these other warriors and badasses, maybe even seeing the couple from JMS's Thor run, maybe have her become a badass warrior in her own right, and then bring her back in a couple of years as a superhero with her own identity, having become a full on Valkyrie-esque hero during this time.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Mon May 14, 2018 3:52 pm

In other news, Mark Waid has allegedly been using his position at Marvel to bully a small press publisher and independent creator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wn33F-Ec2E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY46yQjKgJ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr7BaLw1E70&t=0s

While this is something that should be taken with a grain of salt, I tend to believe D&C's take on things. And if it's true, then it's a very depressing thing to learn about Mark Waid, who has written some of my favorite books, even if his current run of books have been . . . iffy. I'm interested and concerned with how this plays out.

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