What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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RUSCHE
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE » Fri May 31, 2019 4:14 pm

Ares wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 1:29 pm
So, I haven't been paying attention to the Thor books much since Marvel introduced Jane Foster's Thor, since every time I looked into it I got really mad at the disrespect the current writers gave to the past franchise and the sub-textless propaganda the book was promoting. But apparently JANE FOSTER is now ALL-MOTHER OF ASGARD? And they're apparently going to make Jane the new Valkyrie?
I am not Ok with Jane being ALL-MOTHER , as it was not done well at all. It truly made no sense. Her becoming Valkyrie, that would have been a better story than the last 5 years of destroying Thor and his reputation.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:36 am

I swear, I'm trying to give John's new Shazam series a chance, and Johns seems to really be trying to do something more like the classic Captain Marvel stories, basically making Billy less of an asshole, trying to give the suddenly introduced diversity siblings more actual personalities to work with, trying to introduce more classic Marvel Family tropes like Mr. Tawney . . . but it's not fun. It's trying to be fun, trying to be cutesy and clever, but it's not.

Mr. Mind is now apparently a literal Bookworm from a land of anthropomorphic animals that literally ate some magic books to become a magical psychic worm. Dr. Sivana is still basically a wizard. The Seven Lands of Magic aren't interesting, they're all basically crapsack versions of Disney films. One land is basically if you combined Neverland and Pleasure Island, a land where kids have fun, but is ruled over by this despotic Peter Pan that puts kids that get too old to work in slave mines. One land is basically Tron where people compete in game challenges. One land is basically Zootopia.

The art just isn't great either. Dale's art is usually fantastic, but he's just not selling it in this book. He just can't make the Nu-Shazam outfits look good.

Image

I mean, he's trying to make Adult Mary Marvel look sexy, and for me at least, it's just not happening. She looks off to me. Plus that isn't something Mary would say.

It's sad when former fan-artist Sen is the best artist in the book.

They're also mentioning a potential 7th Champion of Shazam, and I hope to God they don't mean Black Adam. Screw THAT noise.

The book also showcases why having Billy and the other Shazam kids all belong to the same foster family is a bad idea: it's incredibly cruel to their foster parents when the kids go missing. There was a reason why Billy and Freddy largely lived on their own and Mary was with a wealthy foster family that lent her a great deal of personal freedom. Having foster parents means that when the kids go missing, the foster parents are incredibly worried, call the cops and now could deal with legal repercussions of the kids actions. It kind of kills the wish fulfillment aspect of the character when being a superhero means your foster parents could get in trouble with the law.

I mean, in concept a lot of what Johns is trying to do isn't bad.
  • Making the Rock of Eternity into the Marvel Family's version of the Fortress of Solitude or the Batcave? That's cool.
  • Add more members to the Marvel Family, adding some diversity to the roster? That's something that fits the Marvel Family and could easily work.
  • Bringing back classic Marvel Family mainstays like Mr. Tawney and Mr. Mind? Long past time for it.
  • Adding more Urban Fantasy tropes to the Marvel Family? Yes please.
  • Using the Rock to visit magical realms, other dimensions and go on crazy adventures? It's about time.
But Johns just can't figure out how to do any of that WELL. He knows what he should be doing to make a good Captain Marvel book and he just can't pull it off. It just continues to reinforce the idea that he's the last person who should be regularly writing Captain Marvel and that they should have got the Future Quest guys working on a Marvel Family book.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by FuzzyBoots » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:53 pm

Marvel's Editor-in-Chief C.B. Cebulski explains the process for killing off characters.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Jabroniville » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:49 pm

Counterpoint: Mary is breathtaking all the time, and Dale's art only makes her moreso :P. I mean, the outfit is the dumb, but I guess he can't help that. And Dale's always had a bit of an issue with odd, stiff poses, making his "sexualized" women often pose a bit strangely (I have a similar problem), but... Mary is waifu.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Tattooedman » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:53 pm

Sorry but the lightning in the chest bit just DOES NOT work for me. Really wish it would get dropped.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 am

Is anyone reading the current Justice League series?

I found a YouTube video on some of the current run, and it just sounds like DC basically has more a pile up of crossover events happening at once.

You've got Doomsday Clock, which is establishing the current DCU as screwed over by Dr. Manhattan and Geoff Johns using Manhattan to basically explain his own mixed feelings about dramatically altering Superman and the DCU.

You've got Heroes in Crisis which just ended.

Then you've got Scott Snyder's Justice League where Snyder has taken it upon himself to decide the origin of the DCU itself, with the idea of the Source creating these cosmic titans like Perpetua that judge multiverses, and that she actually created the Monitor, Anti-Monitor and a new character called the World Forger, and she was what was imprisoned inside the Source Wall?

It's just weird that while Geoff Johns is basically apologizing for altering the very fabric of the DCU, Snyder just said, "Hold my beer."

They brought back the Will Payton Starman, which I would be pretty excited for normally, but instead of being essentially a human-shaped micro-sun, he's now powered by the Multiverse itself?

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:59 pm

Ares wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 am
You've got Doomsday Clock, which is establishing the current DCU as screwed over by Dr. Manhattan and Geoff Johns using Manhattan to basically explain his own mixed feelings about dramatically altering Superman and the DCU.
The Dr. Manhattan redesign that was a little too on the nose.

Image
Last edited by Ken on Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
...

Hawk
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Hawk » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:05 am

Ares wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 am


They brought back the Will Payton Starman, which I would be pretty excited for normally, but instead of being essentially a human-shaped micro-sun, he's now powered by the Multiverse itself?
I liked Starman(Payton), would you recommend it as something worth looking into?

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:32 pm

Avengers #20 - War of the Realms tie-in Review

aka Jason Aaron has issues with She-Hulk and fans.

*facepalm*

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Hawk wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:05 am
Ares wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 am


They brought back the Will Payton Starman, which I would be pretty excited for normally, but instead of being essentially a human-shaped micro-sun, he's now powered by the Multiverse itself?
I liked Starman(Payton), would you recommend it as something worth looking into?
Nope.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Hawk » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:54 pm

Ares wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:33 pm
Hawk wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:05 am
Ares wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 am


They brought back the Will Payton Starman, which I would be pretty excited for normally, but instead of being essentially a human-shaped micro-sun, he's now powered by the Multiverse itself?
I liked Starman(Payton), would you recommend it as something worth looking into?
Nope.
Thanks.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:49 am

Hawk wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:54 pm
Ares wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:33 pm
Hawk wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:05 am


I liked Starman(Payton), would you recommend it as something worth looking into?
Nope.
Thanks.
Sorry, I know that was months late and a short reply, but I kind of lost track of that question during a lot of stuff.

I am a big fan of Will Payton myself, I'm trying to complete my collection of Roger Stern's run of the character, I hated that he was killed off and I hated that he was retconned into being Prince Gavyn. So the idea of him returning would normally get me very excited, except that it feels like Snyder just read Will's wiki and is using him as a Mar-Vel-type cosmic guy who has Multiversal Awareness. Because now instead of being a human-shped star with decent and diverse physical abilities and immense energy potential, he's literally powered by the multiverse and is basically a plot MacGuffin.

It's just amazing how Marvel and DC have these events going on that I should care about, but I can't bring myself to get invested in them. A story about the Nine Realms going to war with Marvel Earth should be right up my alley. Something that brings Will back and redefines the cosmic scene should have me incredibly interested. Instead, they just feel like a collection of mistakes and that both companies have no idea what they're doing.

Ironically, at Comic Con, Dan DiDio apparently revealed that in many cases, the reprint collection of DC stories from the 70s, 80s and 90s that they release in supermarkets sell better than their current original stories they create. And instead of taking a step back and going "Maybe we're doing something wrong that the stories of those decades weren't", he said that it's important to "move forward and continue to find new directions to push the characters".

I feel like Dan DiDio is in a boat, watching DC Comics drown off the side of said boat, and is constantly throwing DC boat anchors instead of life preservers.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:09 am

Ares wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:32 pm
Avengers #20 - War of the Realms tie-in Review

aka Jason Aaron has issues with She-Hulk and fans.

*facepalm*
To elaborate, Aaron has She-Hulk encounter literal trolls from Asgard, and when confronted with them, he has them say word for word the complaints fan had about various things, such as female Thor. He literally has Ulik say, "Thor is his name, not a title."

Jen spends much of the issue as her new, savage She-Hulk, while mentally being put on trial by her classic appearance, which talks about how she use to be fun, sexy, a superhero who was popular and who enjoyed being a superhero. You know, the things fans liked about her. And instead, he has Jen say that she was never happy during the times she was . . . happy . . . and instead felt trapped by her beauty and the expectations of others, how she never had a moments peace because of the media, and how its only now that she's savage and ugly that she really feels free.

There's an incredibly stupid moment where Jen remembers a conversation she had with Bruce, how Bruce said that he wished he could be like She-Hulk: in control of his Hulk form, handsome, at ease with himself, fun, popular, etc. And Jen says that this moment where Bruce said that was the time in her life she wanted to punch him in the face more than any other. That she couldn't believe how selfish he was being, and how he didn't realize how lucky he had it, that she felt the news media never bothered him, that no one bothered him, that he didn't have to live up to other people's expectations.

I just . . . holy SHIT Aaron. I've rarely seen someone get two characters so wrong at once.

The whole point of Jen was that she was a mousy woman with poor self-esteme and never realized how pretty she was, and then as She-Hulk she got the power and confidence to open up, be herself and enjoy life more. She-Hulk LIKED who she was, so much so that when she got permanently stuck in her She-Hulk form, she didn't see any problem with it. She was suppose to be an angst free hero in a time when even Spider-Man was brooding and the X-Men were at the height of their popularity.

She would also completely understand Bruce's feelings because she isn't a selfish idiot, has actual empathy and knows her cousin. She knows the utter HELL being the Hulk is for Bruce. As Bruce himself put it:

"I'm not a hero. I'm a prison warden. Every day I have to struggle to keep the anger locked away. Letting it out is a last resort, because anytime I do, even if I stop what's happening, the damage I cause will be immense. It doesn't matter how much good I've done. I'm always just one heartbeat away from ending the world."

The news are constantly trying to get pictures of the Hulk. The army was constantly hounding him for years. He fought superheroes at least as often as supervillains. He was homeless for a good chunk of his life. His love life was a complete shambles. And the brief moments where he got to be in control of the Hulk were usually the best moments of his life.

But no Jen, tell us how much it sucked being an Avenger and member of the Fantastic Four. Tell us how terrible it was having relationships with Wyatt Wingfoot, Hercules, John Jameson and other superhunks of the Marvel Universe. How much agony it was to be sexy, successful and happy. That your cousin was selfish for wanting something like what you had and how he should have realized how good he had it.

At this point, Marvel needs its own Crisis on Infinite Earths to wipe away the stupid, simplify their continuity, establish an actual status quo and course correct. Because there are only isolated books that give me any hope that anyone at either company knows what they're doing.

RUSCHE
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:43 pm

Ares wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:09 am
Ares wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:32 pm
Avengers #20 - War of the Realms tie-in Review

aka Jason Aaron has issues with She-Hulk and fans.

*facepalm*
To elaborate, Aaron has She-Hulk encounter literal trolls from Asgard, and when confronted with them, he has them say word for word the complaints fan had about various things, such as female Thor. He literally has Ulik say, "Thor is his name, not a title."

Jen spends much of the issue as her new, savage She-Hulk, while mentally being put on trial by her classic appearance, which talks about how she use to be fun, sexy, a superhero who was popular and who enjoyed being a superhero. You know, the things fans liked about her. And instead, he has Jen say that she was never happy during the times she was . . . happy . . . and instead felt trapped by her beauty and the expectations of others, how she never had a moments peace because of the media, and how its only now that she's savage and ugly that she really feels free.

There's an incredibly stupid moment where Jen remembers a conversation she had with Bruce, how Bruce said that he wished he could be like She-Hulk: in control of his Hulk form, handsome, at ease with himself, fun, popular, etc. And Jen says that this moment where Bruce said that was the time in her life she wanted to punch him in the face more than any other. That she couldn't believe how selfish he was being, and how he didn't realize how lucky he had it, that she felt the news media never bothered him, that no one bothered him, that he didn't have to live up to other people's expectations.

I just . . . holy SHIT Aaron. I've rarely seen someone get two characters so wrong at once.

The whole point of Jen was that she was a mousy woman with poor self-esteme and never realized how pretty she was, and then as She-Hulk she got the power and confidence to open up, be herself and enjoy life more. She-Hulk LIKED who she was, so much so that when she got permanently stuck in her She-Hulk form, she didn't see any problem with it. She was suppose to be an angst free hero in a time when even Spider-Man was brooding and the X-Men were at the height of their popularity.

She would also completely understand Bruce's feelings because she isn't a selfish idiot, has actual empathy and knows her cousin. She knows the utter HELL being the Hulk is for Bruce. As Bruce himself put it:

"I'm not a hero. I'm a prison warden. Every day I have to struggle to keep the anger locked away. Letting it out is a last resort, because anytime I do, even if I stop what's happening, the damage I cause will be immense. It doesn't matter how much good I've done. I'm always just one heartbeat away from ending the world."

The news are constantly trying to get pictures of the Hulk. The army was constantly hounding him for years. He fought superheroes at least as often as supervillains. He was homeless for a good chunk of his life. His love life was a complete shambles. And the brief moments where he got to be in control of the Hulk were usually the best moments of his life.

But no Jen, tell us how much it sucked being an Avenger and member of the Fantastic Four. Tell us how terrible it was having relationships with Wyatt Wingfoot, Hercules, John Jameson and other superhunks of the Marvel Universe. How much agony it was to be sexy, successful and happy. That your cousin was selfish for wanting something like what you had and how he should have realized how good he had it.

At this point, Marvel needs its own Crisis on Infinite Earths to wipe away the stupid, simplify their continuity, establish an actual status quo and course correct. Because there are only isolated books that give me any hope that anyone at either company knows what they're doing.
Please send this to Marvel. It would not help but I would feel better knowing someone other than myself gets what wrong with them. When I read Avengers 20 it was a gut punch. So much disconnect from the history of those two, it was painful to read. The Editor needs to been flogged..

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:49 pm

RUSCHE wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:43 pm
Please send this to Marvel. It would not help but I would feel better knowing someone other than myself gets what wrong with them. When I read Avengers 20 it was a gut punch. So much disconnect from the history of those two, it was painful to read. The Editor needs to been flogged..
I'd consider it if I thought it would do any good. Mostly I just imagine parts of my note would pop up a month later in the speech balloons of folks like Mojo, Ulik or some newly created villain literally named "The Misogynist".

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