What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

The place to talk about your favorite novels, comic books and web comics.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

I'm also really disappointed with the nihilistic notion that set off Namor's apparent mad-on for the surface world: the idea that humans on a beach would just stand by and watch Atlantean children die. I know, commentary on how people will just watch as a beached dolphin or similar sea animal die from exposure, but there's a difference between a dolphin and something that looks like a human being in every way save blue skin. I refuse to believe that someone wouldn't have done something in that instance, and I hate this pessimistic view of humanity.

I'm also kind of disappointed in the Avengers. It's likely they don't know that Stingray is dead. And hey, it might be possible that Aaron's going to throw us a swerve, that after Namor and Tigershark left, Namor had the sharks bring Stingray somewhere, albeit badly injured, but still alive. But all evidence leads to Stingray being dead, and as far as I can recall, none of the Avengers bring this up. Back in the Busiek days, it wouldn't have mattered if Thor personally was on the team with a fallen Avenger: They were a fellow Avenger, a brother and sister in the cause of good, and Thor would smite the ever-lovin CRAP out of any who would dare harm such a person. Stingray's death should result in Namor getting an Uru Enema.

Namor has also generally been a morally grey character, someone who could do morally questionable things, but when it came down to it he would do the heroic thing more often than not. His behavior here is completely unheroic. And he's also received some kind of off-screen power-up because he's now taking on Thor, Iron Man and Carol Danvers at the same time and not immediately getting his ass kicked. Namor is strong, but it's been established that he's not quite Hercules/Hulk/Thor strong.

I will say that I do like the idea of Namor forming his own aquatic based team, and him being an antagonist for the Avengers can work. But overall I'm not a fan of what's been done here.

The pages of Namor's long, rambling inner monologue didn't appeal to me either. Which is probably ironic given how much rambling I've done thus far.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
RUSCHE
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE »

Ares wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:19 pm I'm also really disappointed with the nihilistic notion that set off Namor's apparent mad-on for the surface world: the idea that humans on a beach would just stand by and watch Atlantean children die. I know, commentary on how people will just watch as a beached dolphin or similar sea animal die from exposure, but there's a difference between a dolphin and something that looks like a human being in every way save blue skin. I refuse to believe that someone wouldn't have done something in that instance, and I hate this pessimistic view of humanity.

I'm also kind of disappointed in the Avengers. It's likely they don't know that Stingray is dead. And hey, it might be possible that Aaron's going to throw us a swerve, that after Namor and Tigershark left, Namor had the sharks bring Stingray somewhere, albeit badly injured, but still alive. But all evidence leads to Stingray being dead, and as far as I can recall, none of the Avengers bring this up. Back in the Busiek days, it wouldn't have mattered if Thor personally was on the team with a fallen Avenger: They were a fellow Avenger, a brother and sister in the cause of good, and Thor would smite the ever-lovin CRAP out of any who would dare harm such a person. Stingray's death should result in Namor getting an Uru Enema.

Namor has also generally been a morally grey character, someone who could do morally questionable things, but when it came down to it he would do the heroic thing more often than not. His behavior here is completely unheroic. And he's also received some kind of off-screen power-up because he's now taking on Thor, Iron Man and Carol Danvers at the same time and not immediately getting his ass kicked. Namor is strong, but it's been established that he's not quite Hercules/Hulk/Thor strong.

I will say that I do like the idea of Namor forming his own aquatic based team, and him being an antagonist for the Avengers can work. But overall I'm not a fan of what's been done here.

The pages of Namor's long, rambling inner monologue didn't appeal to me either. Which is probably ironic given how much rambling I've done thus far.
Ramble away, it hurts to see our Heroes treated in such a way, Thor should always be the big gun and righteous anger at a fellow Avenger should ALWAYS bring out a ass kicking. ALWAYS. Namor could have come of as RIGHT and shamed his fellow Heroes to no end, instead he came of as something that his own peoples children were afraid of him. Hos having a team to respond to the surface world, cool, claiming he will not fight on their terms(surface) cool. Being a cold blooded killer of one of his oldest and most staunch friends and allies...not so much.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

The re-launch of Unstoppable Wasp came out as well, and that book remains terrible, mainly because it continues the fallacy that women are somehow being kept out of STEM fields, when in reality no one is being prevented from going into said fields, it's just that on average women gravitate towards other fields.

The name G.I.R.L. is also really stupid, because it stands for Genius In Action Research Laboratories, which should either be G.I.A.R.L. (which sounds like a noise from Homestar Runner) or the name should be Genius Inaction Research Laboratories, which would actually fit better because these characters never DO anything.

And it's a shame, because Nadia Pym is actually a decent character, being a very sweet girl who is kind of clueless of the outside world who genuinely wants to help people. There were some very stupid moments (like her having read Ms. Marvel's fanfiction, or her talk with Mockingbird becoming the whole foundation for G.I.R.L.), but Nadia herself is actually a nice character, and WAY more likable than Riri Williams, and less annoying than Moongirl can be.

I'd say the biggest misstep with her was making her a Wasp and making her Hank Pym's kid. Making her the Wasp takes away from Jan, who was one of Marvel's first superheroes, a founding member of the Avengers and recurring leader of said team, who also has an actual fun personality. Making her Hank Pym's daughter seems like just another reason to shit on Hank Pym, and Nadia taking Jan's last name also just further disrespects her father.

Honestly, they should have given Nadia's personality to Riri, because then you would have had the contrast of someone sweet and kind taking over for Tony (who is basically something of a responsible, good intentioned snarky asshat), instead of Riri basically being a psychopath. Or have Nadia not be related to Hank but figured out his Pym particles and based her identity on the Wasp, calling herself The Stinger or The Hornet or something similar. Heck, the original Hornet from the Slingers was killed off pointlessly, why not have her take his name, modify his gear and be a legacy to a fallen hero rather than basically stealing Jan's name?

It's a weird thing where I like the character's personality and her general abilities, but hate pretty much everything else surrounding her. The irony of her book being called "The Unstoppable Wasp" when it was canceled in less than 10 issues wasn't lost on a lot of people, and I'm curious how long this version of the Completely Stoppable Wasp will last before cancellation?
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

I've got to say, part of me would be really tempted if I wrote for DC to create a team of obvious analogies to Nadia, Riri, Moongirl, JaneThor, Gwenpool, SpiderGwen, Kate Bishiop, America Chavez and Squirrelgirl as a group of supervillains that basically all take a page from the Anita Sarkeesian playbook. Make them recruits by an evil Amazon who is groomed to be her sword against Man's World, letting me comment on the worst aspects of Amazon culture as well. Make the Amazon someone who looks like JaneThor, who stole her powers from another hero, and whose personality is a mix of JaneThor and Anita Sarkeesian.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24634
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Jabroniville »

Avengers reviews:

A "time-wasting" filler issue spent on the Ancient Ghost Rider was well-drawn, but otherwise felt pointless, but I did like the team kind of "settling in". The characters interact well with each other.

I haven't read the Namor-kills-Stingray issue yet, but yes, I agree- it's dumb and pointless. They basically Refridgeratored him to show "How crazy and dangerous Namor is now", which is dumb because the only people who still remember Stingray enough to value this moment are the ones that would be annoyed that he got iced so casually just to prove a point.

I was a BIG fan of Stingray as a kid, and while it'd be polite to call him "D" league (he was in a few Marvel Comics Presents as a solo act, I guess), I dug how he was just a scientist who had no intention of superhero-ing all the time, and how he was one of the few married superheroes. The whole thing just kind of feels wasteful.
RUSCHE
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by RUSCHE »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:45 am Avengers reviews:

A "time-wasting" filler issue spent on the Ancient Ghost Rider was well-drawn, but otherwise felt pointless, but I did like the team kind of "settling in". The characters interact well with each other.

I haven't read the Namor-kills-Stingray issue yet, but yes, I agree- it's dumb and pointless. They basically Refridgeratored him to show "How crazy and dangerous Namor is now", which is dumb because the only people who still remember Stingray enough to value this moment are the ones that would be annoyed that he got iced so casually just to prove a point.

I was a BIG fan of Stingray as a kid, and while it'd be polite to call him "D" league (he was in a few Marvel Comics Presents as a solo act, I guess), I dug how he was just a scientist who had no intention of superhero-ing all the time, and how he was one of the few married superheroes. The whole thing just kind of feels wasteful.
He is married to Tiger Sharks sister for Pete's sake!!
That alone still had a few good stories to tell. The whole thing reeks and is plainly moronic..
User avatar
M4C8
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:17 pm
Location: South-East England

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by M4C8 »

So Namor's a villain again? and he murders Stingray? well that's a huge pile of crap, while Stingray isn't a major character he's far more interesting to me than many of the characters that have joined the Avengers in recent years.

Oh and Carol Danvers is actually half Kree (because a male having a role in her origin, even an alien male, is apparently sexist :roll: )
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
User avatar
Scots Dragon
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:08 pm
Location: Trapped in England

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Scots Dragon »

M4C8 wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:06 am Oh and Carol Danvers is actually half Kree (because a male having a role in her origin, even an alien male, is apparently sexist :roll: )
I rarely have any interest in posting here at all and usually only turn up to check out some of the frankly bizarre statements on display any more, but...

Mar-Vell's still part of Carol's origin, her powers were still activated in that explosion, he's still a hugely influential part of her backstory and legacy, and they even recently put out a book with the two working together. The retcon is literally just that the powers were awakened rather than granted, and it opens up potential other avenues for storytelling where Carol explores her previously unknown alien heritage as a half-Kree.

If this sort of revision had happened with a male character it would have gone without comment. In fact, I remember a time when a much larger revision was made to a male character and people generally preferred it that way; Kon-El going from some random human clone with a minor degree of Kryptonian alteration to a clone made from the combined DNA of Superman and Lex Luthor.
Formerly known as Narsil on the ATT and Ronin Army forums.
User avatar
Woodclaw
Posts: 1462
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:05 pm
Location: Como, Italy

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Woodclaw »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:45 am Avengers reviews:

A "time-wasting" filler issue spent on the Ancient Ghost Rider was well-drawn, but otherwise felt pointless, but I did like the team kind of "settling in". The characters interact well with each other.

I haven't read the Namor-kills-Stingray issue yet, but yes, I agree- it's dumb and pointless. They basically Refridgeratored him to show "How crazy and dangerous Namor is now", which is dumb because the only people who still remember Stingray enough to value this moment are the ones that would be annoyed that he got iced so casually just to prove a point.

I was a BIG fan of Stingray as a kid, and while it'd be polite to call him "D" league (he was in a few Marvel Comics Presents as a solo act, I guess), I dug how he was just a scientist who had no intention of superhero-ing all the time, and how he was one of the few married superheroes. The whole thing just kind of feels wasteful.
Stingray is, unfortunately one of the many characters that are perfect background filler: he has a really distinctive look and fills a rather unused niche (underwater hero that use technology instead of being "born for it"). BTW, I really digged his looks when I was younger.
RUSCHE wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:18 pm He is married to Tiger Sharks sister for Pete's sake!!
That alone still had a few good stories to tell. The whole thing reeks and is plainly moronic..
That is just one of many wasted opportunities. Given that Stingray was one of the few human that was generally welcomed in Atlantis, I was always surprised that the U.N. and every govement agency you can think of weren't all over him to act as unofficial liason to Namor.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

WareHouse W (main build thread for M&M)
User avatar
M4C8
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:17 pm
Location: South-East England

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by M4C8 »

Scots Dragon wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:11 am
M4C8 wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:06 am Oh and Carol Danvers is actually half Kree (because a male having a role in her origin, even an alien male, is apparently sexist :roll: )
I rarely have any interest in posting here at all and usually only turn up to check out some of the frankly bizarre statements on display any more, but...

Mar-Vell's still part of Carol's origin, her powers were still activated in that explosion, he's still a hugely influential part of her backstory and legacy, and they even recently put out a book with the two working together. The retcon is literally just that the powers were awakened rather than granted, and it opens up potential other avenues for storytelling where Carol explores her previously unknown alien heritage as a half-Kree.

If this sort of revision had happened with a male character it would have gone without comment. In fact, I remember a time when a much larger revision was made to a male character and people generally preferred it that way; Kon-El going from some random human clone with a minor degree of Kryptonian alteration to a clone made from the combined DNA of Superman and Lex Luthor.
Yes I know all that, my comment was mostly sarcastic as one of the reasons given by many that the MCU version of Carol was changed was so that she could be a 'feminist icon' that didn't 'owe' anything to a male.

And no, that sort of revision to a male character usually does not go without comment, rarely is a retcon met with anything other than disdain especially when it's wholly unnecessary (such as the recent crap with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch)
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

Scots Dragon wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:11 am
M4C8 wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:06 am Oh and Carol Danvers is actually half Kree (because a male having a role in her origin, even an alien male, is apparently sexist :roll: )
I rarely have any interest in posting here at all and usually only turn up to check out some of the frankly bizarre statements on display any more, but...

Mar-Vell's still part of Carol's origin, her powers were still activated in that explosion, he's still a hugely influential part of her backstory and legacy, and they even recently put out a book with the two working together. The retcon is literally just that the powers were awakened rather than granted, and it opens up potential other avenues for storytelling where Carol explores her previously unknown alien heritage as a half-Kree.
The recent retcons to Carol's background have changed quite a bit.

Carol's father was initially portrayed as an old-fashioned man of the 70s who had difficulty accepting his more feminist daughter, having a "women should stay in the kitchen" mentality, making him a good foil to her when she showed how outmoded such ideas were. He didn't support her attempts to go to college because a recent job loss meant he could only send one child to college, and he chose his eldest son, whose death later lead him to become an alcoholic.

He was also a hard working father that provided for his children as best he could, bravely saved the men he was in charge of at his construction job, and actually fought against both a supervillain and the corporation endangering said men, only to require rescuing by Carol. And in a moment of humility, he had to accept that a powerful woman had saved his life and thanked her. Later on, after Rogue had drained Carol's memories and powers, her father was shown to be very supportive and doing all he could to take care of her, while worried about her alcoholism (having been an alcoholic before and knowing the symptoms).

Recent changes to his backstory have made him into an abusive husband, made Carol the source of his alcoholism, and his lack of support for her being due to her half-Kree heritage. In essence, instead of her father not being supportive of her dreams due to a lack of funds and old-fashioned attitude, Carol's mother claims that they were intentionally holding her back and making her "less" out of fear.

They also literally have a panel where they say the following:

Image

They seem to feel that Carol couldn't have simply gotten her powers from an accident the way the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, the Hulk and other heroes have and had no issues with it. The power must have always been inside of her and, at best, Mar-Vell's presence did was trigger them. Forgetting the fact that Mar-Vell's ability to convert solar energy into greater than Kree strength, durability, his ability to fly, generate energy blasts and so forth, were all unique to him and not a natural part of Kree biology. Carol's powers being a unique bi-product of her heritage makes less sense when you consider that her powers are basically an enhanced version of Mar-Vell's, further enhanced when she became Binary for a time.

It basically comes off that the writer finds something wrong with the fact that Carol wasn't genetically pre-destined to be a superhero, and instead had a typical superhero origin, managed to overcome adversity, and make a name for herself. Instead, the series makes Carol an emotional wreck, tears down her father even more, and tries to paint her mother as a saint, when she's been lying to Carol this entire time, and never interceded when Kree science might have been useful in, oh, restoring Carol's memories and emotional connection after Rogue drained her powers.

In essence, this change doesn't really offer anything new while making Carol's past more contradictory and complicated. It seems like they felt some weird degree of shame that the person they're trying to headline as their version of Wonder Woman originally got her powers and her name from a male hero. Instead of focusing on what she's done since getting her powers, they feel the need to go back and try and change the origin to minimize Mar-Vell's involvement, all while Carol wears a variant of his costume and uses his name. Though given some of the really, really, REALLY bad things Carol has done since taking up the name Captain Marvel, not focusing on them might not be a bad idea.

But that seems to be a recent trend at Marvel. From Jane Foster demonizing Odin and being more worth of Mjolnir than Thor, to Kate Bishop being called "the real Hawkeye", to Nadia Pym rejecting her father's memory and renaming herself Nadia Van Dyne, to Riri Williams demanding to be oppressed and prove herself better than Tony Stark while taking advantage of his company, I'm half expecting them to next reveal that Jen Walters got her powers from an unrelated accident and doesn't really owe anything to Bruce Banner.

Contrary to what anyone might interpret the above to mean, I am a fan of female heroines, Carol in particular. But much like Chelsea Cain's retcon of Mockingbird, this retcon for Carol is unnecessary, misguided and ultimately pretty bad. And likely to be ignored or re-retconned later.
If this sort of revision had happened with a male character it would have gone without comment. In fact, I remember a time when a much larger revision was made to a male character and people generally preferred it that way; Kon-El going from some random human clone with a minor degree of Kryptonian alteration to a clone made from the combined DNA of Superman and Lex Luthor.
Not really. For one thing, the two situations you're describing are completely different, actually the inverse of the example with Carol. With Carol, you have a character whose origin was specifically tied to a certain hero, where the retcon is meant to distance said connection.

Conversely, Superboy was originally created as a bait and switch, the idea being that he was a clone of Superman being disproven early on. Superboy originally was someone who knew exactly who he was and what he was going to be: he was a clone of Superman and he was going to replace Superman as the world's greatest hero. When Superman turned up alive and Superboy was revealed to not be a clone of Superman, but merely a cloned human with some modifications made to make him more Kryptonian, Superboy's sense of identity was shattered and he left Metropolis to find his own place in the world and develop his own identity. The search for identity was a big part of Superboy during the run of his original creator, and it was important to Superboy to basically be his own man.

The retcon does the exact opposite of Carol's and more closely tied Superboy's origin to both Superman and Lex Luthor, and incidentally cost Superboy all of his personality growth and sense of individualist, with his personality doing a complete shift as he now became consumed with Daddy Issues about whether or not he would become like Lex Luthor or not. And contrary to what you believe, the fandom was pretty split over this decision, as well as the decision to make Superboy rely less on his tactile telekinesis (which was a unique power to him) and focus more on making him a mini-Superman. In short, Geoff Johns did what a lot of modern writers do in taking a character and changing everything about them to make them into what they want, rather than just making a new character from scratch.

So yeah, not only was the Superboy retcon very different from the Carol retcon, it WAS very much remarked on, and while not universally hated, was seen as controversial.

Honestly, the closest things I can think of as being similar to Carol's retcon is the Post-Crisis retcons where they tried to distance characters like Supergirl and Power Girl from their Kryptonian roots in order to make Superman the only living Kryptonian. And guess what? Those changes only complicated the characters and made them confusing to use (to the point where Peter David basically completely recreated Supergirl as something else) until they were both had their Kryptonian backgrounds and Superman connections retconned back in.

Basically, if you want a female character to stand on her own and not have ties to an existing hero, don't give her the name, powers and costume of an existing hero and tie her origins to him. And then don't try to backpedal years later when the fact that she is tied to another character apparently becomes a source of embarrassment for some people.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
greycrusader
Posts: 1179
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader »

Ares wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:19 pm I'm also really disappointed with the nihilistic notion that set off Namor's apparent mad-on for the surface world: the idea that humans on a beach would just stand by and watch Atlantean children die. I know, commentary on how people will just watch as a beached dolphin or similar sea animal die from exposure, but there's a difference between a dolphin and something that looks like a human being in every way save blue skin. I refuse to believe that someone wouldn't have done something in that instance, and I hate this pessimistic view of humanity.

I'm also kind of disappointed in the Avengers. It's likely they don't know that Stingray is dead. And hey, it might be possible that Aaron's going to throw us a swerve, that after Namor and Tigershark left, Namor had the sharks bring Stingray somewhere, albeit badly injured, but still alive. But all evidence leads to Stingray being dead, and as far as I can recall, none of the Avengers bring this up. Back in the Busiek days, it wouldn't have mattered if Thor personally was on the team with a fallen Avenger: They were a fellow Avenger, a brother and sister in the cause of good, and Thor would smite the ever-lovin CRAP out of any who would dare harm such a person. Stingray's death should result in Namor getting an Uru Enema.

Namor has also generally been a morally grey character, someone who could do morally questionable things, but when it came down to it he would do the heroic thing more often than not. His behavior here is completely unheroic. And he's also received some kind of off-screen power-up because he's now taking on Thor, Iron Man and Carol Danvers at the same time and not immediately getting his ass kicked. Namor is strong, but it's been established that he's not quite Hercules/Hulk/Thor strong.

I will say that I do like the idea of Namor forming his own aquatic based team, and him being an antagonist for the Avengers can work. But overall I'm not a fan of what's been done here.

The pages of Namor's long, rambling inner monologue didn't appeal to me either. Which is probably ironic given how much rambling I've done thus far.
I'm hoping this is revealed to be the Ultimate Universe Namor, which would explain the look, personality, and power-boost (Ultimate Namor was an out and out amoral villain, had the ability of hydrokinesis on a massive scale, and was stronger than the Ultimate U Ben Grim even on the surface). Other that or some sort of outright mind-control, because the actions of the Sub-Mariner in this issue were FAR out of character. He's not a brutal killer, except possibly against an enemy who slaughtered Atlanteans or killed his own family members/loved ones. Stingray is/was a semi-friend and ally, Namor doesn't execute foes from a distance, and he doesn't dress "emo". Its just all wrong, and (I hope) swiftly forgotten or ret-conned if he's supposed to be THE Sub-Mariner.

All my best.
User avatar
Tattooedman
Posts: 2767
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:09 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Tattooedman »

greycrusader wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:44 pm I'm hoping this is revealed to be the Ultimate Universe Namor, which would explain the look, personality, and power-boost (Ultimate Namor was an out and out amoral villain, had the ability of hydrokinesis on a massive scale, and was stronger than the Ultimate U Ben Grim even on the surface). Other that or some sort of outright mind-control, because the actions of the Sub-Mariner in this issue were FAR out of character. He's not a brutal killer, except possibly against an enemy who slaughtered Atlanteans or killed his own family members/loved ones. Stingray is/was a semi-friend and ally, Namor doesn't execute foes from a distance, and he doesn't dress "emo". Its just all wrong, and (I hope) swiftly forgotten or ret-conned if he's supposed to be THE Sub-Mariner.

All my best.
While I find this to be a much entertaining option to the "Namor situation" (as I've named it amongst friends when talking about this story), I somehow doubt that it will be the case.
Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:45 pm
LOl- "The Tattooed Man"? What kind of ABSOLUTE DILDO would refer to himself as "The Tattooed Man" :P!?!
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

So Bendis started out with sending Lois and Clark's son away, something Clark didn't want. And now Lois wants to take a break from married life, because they "will never be a normal family, so why pretend to be one?". They aren't technically divorced, but they are effectively broken up for the immediate future, likely as long as Bendis is writing the character.

This really feels like Bendis saw all the work that had been done making Clark and Lois a real family with their son, and said, "Nah, screw that", and shoved it all to the side. I feel my earlier fears about Bendis' jump to DC are pretty justified right now.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Woodclaw
Posts: 1462
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:05 pm
Location: Como, Italy

Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Woodclaw »

Ares wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:19 pm So Bendis started out with sending Lois and Clark's son away, something Clark didn't want. And now Lois wants to take a break from married life, because they "will never be a normal family, so why pretend to be one?". They aren't technically divorced, but they are effectively broken up for the immediate future, likely as long as Bendis is writing the character.

This really feels like Bendis saw all the work that had been done making Clark and Lois a real family with their son, and said, "Nah, screw that", and shoved it all to the side. I feel my earlier fears about Bendis' jump to DC are pretty justified right now.
Why does this sound like something I've already seen?
Next Lois will make a deal with Mr. Mxyzptlk to undo their marriage and allow Clark to be Superman 24/7...
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

WareHouse W (main build thread for M&M)
Post Reply