What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Batgirl III
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Batgirl III »

Frank Miller said it best: "The fundament of a superhero is the guy in tights saving innocent people from bad things. It's amazing how infrequently that seems to happen in superhero comics these days."

Yeah, I find it hard to believe Frank Miller said it, but he did.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by MacynSnow »

Batgirl III wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:09 pm Frank Miller said it best: "The fundament of a superhero is the guy in tights saving innocent people from bad things. It's amazing how infrequently that seems to happen in superhero comics these days."

Yeah, I find it hard to believe Frank Miller said it, but he did.
There's that old adage about a broken Clock being right at least twice a day, so occasionally Frank Miller is Wisely Accurate. 8-)
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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

So apparently Ta-Nehisi Coates' take on the Red Skull is to have him basically use Dr. Jordan Peterson's philosophy to spead evil.

Say what you will about Dr. Peterson, love him or hate him, but putting his words into the mouth of a literal Nazi is just . . . wrong.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by MacynSnow »

I think Coates has it out for the guy. This makes what, three-four times now Coates has took a hard jab at Peterson's Philosophy?
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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

I mean, I can understand that. A philosophy where personal accountability and taking responsibility for yourself is like Kryptonite to Coates.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:39 pm I mean, I can understand that. A philosophy where personal accountability and taking responsibility for yourself is like Kryptonite to Coates.
Remember, any position that "you" disagree with is indistinguishable from Nazi-ism.

Of course, since a lot of people subscribe to that belief, I'm pretty sure EVRYTHING is Nazi-ism.
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by csyphrett »

Jordan Peterson? He shouldn't be used for the Red Skull. He's more like the fake Captain America from the fifties, the one with the cult.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

csyphrett wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:16 pm Jordan Peterson? He shouldn't be used for the Red Skull. He's more like the fake Captain America from the fifties, the one with the cult.
CES
Nah, that guy couldn't clean up his own backyard, let alone his room.
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Batgirl III
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Batgirl III »

The truly insulting thing about using Peterson as model for Red Skull is that, prior to his shooting to internet prominence for his criticism of Bill C-16 in 2016, Peterson was best known for his work studying and explaining the reasoning and motivations for individuals allowing their identity to become entwined with extremist belief systems to the point they are willing to commit atrocities to defend those beliefs. His academic work was groundbreaking in studying the psychology of atrocities such as the Soviet Gulags, National Socialist extermination camps like Auschwitz, and the Rwandan genocide.

Peterson literally wrote the book on how Neo National Socialists, et. al., recruit members... and, no, this isn’t how they do it.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken »

Batgirl III wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:16 amPeterson was best known for his work studying and explaining the reasoning and motivations for individuals allowing their identity to become entwined with extremist belief systems to the point they are willing to commit atrocities to defend those beliefs
So Ta-Nehisi Coates didn't like being part of Peterson's case study?
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

PP: Yes, but now I work for the United Nations.

W: So your work has not changed.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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I’m just assuming that Ta-Nehisi Coates never read anything Peterson ever wrote. God knows the man has clearly never read a Captain America comic book...

I’ve read two of Coates’ books, his 2008 “memoir” The Beautiful Struggle* and 2015’s Between the World and Me**, plus maybe a half-dozen comics that he’s written and numerous editorials and essays in newspapers/news magazines. So when I say that I think the man is a disgustingly virulent racist who has an incredibly warped view of human history, American society, and western civilization I want to assure you I came by that conclusion honestly.

Peterson? I don’t know his writings as well. I read some of his psychological studies about extremist identity, like, twenty-ish years ago back when I was in university. I bought his Twelve Rules book when it first came out, mostly because of the “controversy” surrounding it... I had only gotten about 3/4 of the way through it when it got lost (along with the rest of my suitcase) on a red-eye flight. It was all about personal responsibility, building a sense of self-worth through self-sufficiency, and maintaining emotional balance. Peterson probably didn’t intend it, but it was basically “Marcus Aurelius for Dummies.” Now, sure, I can understand that a lot of people might not agree with it, but I can only conclude the people who find it controversial have never read it.

But, really, Coates is incredibly off-target by comparing him to the Red Skull (or vice-versa). It would be a great act of schadenfreude-y justice for Peterson to use Canada’s libel laws to take on Coates... But I doubt that will happen.

* I use air quotes here because, he was in his early thirties when he wrote it. It’s not so much a “memoir” as a 240 page exercise in exploring the man’s daddy issues.[/quote]

** Which is framed as a “letter to his teenage son,” and basically seems to have the goal of making sure his son grows up with the same broken world view his own father instilled in him.[/quote]
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

Just Some Guy has a video about it.
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken »

Ken wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:16 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:16 amPeterson was best known for his work studying and explaining the reasoning and motivations for individuals allowing their identity to become entwined with extremist belief systems to the point they are willing to commit atrocities to defend those beliefs
So Ta-Nehisi Coates didn't like being part of Peterson's case study?
Batgirl III wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:55 pm when I say that I think the man is a disgustingly virulent racist who has an incredibly warped view of human history, American society, and western civilization I want to assure you I came by that conclusion honestly.
I didn't come by that conclusion through anything but gut instinct. I just figured anyone who compares Peterson with the Red Skull is entwined in an extremist belief system.
Ken wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:16 pmPeterson probably didn’t intend it, but it was basically “Marcus Aurelius for Dummies.”
I don't know why, but I find the idea of “Marcus Aurelius for Dummies” highly amusing.
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

PP: Yes, but now I work for the United Nations.

W: So your work has not changed.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by csyphrett »

I don't know why this came up with Peterson and Coats. It kind of reminds me of Howard Tayler and the Seven Habits guy so Tayler had to change his Seven Habits to 77 rules (the first being pillage, then burn in that order) I do know that Peterson is known for saying there is no white privilege so the people in charge built their countries the way they wanted and that's how it is. Don't like it, go somewhere else.

My son said he's a crappier Dr. OZ, or a better spoken Alex Jones.
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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken »

csyphrett wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:46 pmI don't know why this came up with Peterson and Coats.
Probably because Coates wrote the comic book in question and because besides the "Rules for Life" there is a specific mention in the comics of order and chaos, which Peterson himself admits are among his main themes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u5cMqItvCc

Just for gits and shiggles, looking at the photo that is my avatar over on the right, do you know which one believes in White Privilege?

Trick question, it's neither. Want to guess which one claims that his ethnicity helped get him a better education and get hired for at least one job?
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

PP: Yes, but now I work for the United Nations.

W: So your work has not changed.
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