The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

The place to talk about your favorite novels, comic books and web comics.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 3775
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Ares »

One thing I'm planning on doing in my own supers setting might be somewhat controversial.

It'd be a pretty traditional Marvel/DC setting with the usual trappings. This would include legacy heroes, and I'd reflect how in comics that sometimes the person taking up a legacy is a different ethnicity or sex than the person who originally held it. That's a perfectly fine thing.

The only difference being that it would apply to everyone.

For example, one artifact in my setting is the Hammer of John Henry. Some legends about it tell how it was forged from the chains he'd worn as a slave, those symbols of slavery reforged into the tool he used to build a life for himself as a free man. When he died, his sacrifice and the strength of his conviction basically turned the hammer into a major artifact empowered by the concept of freedom, liberty, justice and patriotism. In essence, it's Thor's hammer, but with a Captain America theme, and it's worthiness aspect is based around people who value concepts that empower it.

The first person to wield the hammer after John Henry would be the first black superhero of my setting, though I'm still working on a name. I'll just call him American Steel for now as a placeholder. But he'd be patriotically themed and would be both powerful and admired. He'd naturally get involved in the Civil Rights movements of the 50s and 60s, but would eventually retire.

The second American Steel is someone who holds the same values and moral conviction as it's previous owner. But the new American Steel is also a blonde haired, blue-eyed white man. And despite wanting to do nothing more than honor the legacy of a man he respects and a serve a country he loves, American Steel II gets a lot of push back from people who claim he's whitewashing the legacy of a black hero. To the point that the main villain of the new American Steel is a black man who wants to claim that legacy for himself. I'll call the villain Legacy as a placeholder. Legacy would make life miserable for American Steel II, painting him as "American Steal", using PR against him, even gaining weapons or powers of his own and publicly attacking American Steel II at a ceremony meant to honor American Steel I. Legacy demands the hammer and that American Steel I acknowledge him as his true successor.

Before the Golden Age hero can respond, American Steel II places the hammer on the ground and steps away from it. He simply says, "If you can lift it, it's yours." And Legacy goes to lift it . . . and he can't. He strains, he curses, and he can't understand why he can't lift it. Then American Steel I walks over and casually lifts the hammer off the ground. He point blank calls Legacy a fool, saying that the hammer does not care about the color of your skin, but the contents of your heart. American Steel I hands the hammer to American Steel II, who can indeed lift the hammer just fine. American Steel I goes on to say that to lift the hammer, you have to believe that all people are equal, and Legacy doesn't believe that. Legacy believed that having the right skin color was more important than having the right beliefs. Legacy also just committed assault, so he's going to jail.

I just know I'd catch a lot of flack from some people for this whole concept, but like I said: there would be plenty of instances of white male heroes getting replaced by non-white, non-male heroes. Logically, the reverse should happen as well.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donated.
NoOneofConsequence
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:11 pm
Location: Beyond Thunder River

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

I like that.

I would suggest Hammerman as a name, but that was a terrible MC Hammer Saturday morning cartoon back in the day and there are honestly probably a dozen better names.

My own 2nd ed M&M setting had John Henry as a Wild West hero who had gotten the hammer from an escaped slave who'd been part of Frederick Douglass's black hero team during the Civil War, with the implications that it was originally either the hammer Nu-endo used by the Southern African folk hero Makoma or was forged by the West African god Ogun (or maybe both). I don't think I ever had a modern wielder.
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 3775
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Ares »

I've got to admit, with some of the recent stuff going on at DC, I'd be so very tempted to immediately make an event that is basically "FUCK YOU DC, CAPTAIN MARVEL SAVES THE DAY!"

Like, I'd almost literally want to call it that. If anything, I'd want to make it exactly like Flashpoint, but with Captain Marvel as the protagonist. And the dark, grim world that the hero can barely recognize? Yeah, that's just the modern DC Universe. Cap shows up in the modern DC and it's basically treated as being as bad as the Flashpoint setting. Because honestly, in some ways it is.

And I will admit up front, this is petty as Hell. But Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash and Green Lantern have all had events focusing on them. So to heck with it. It's Cap's turn and he's going to save the entire DCU, and not with a reboot. Reboot implies "okay, we're scrapping everything and starting from scratch". This isn't a retcon either. It's more of a continuity cleaning. Or more accurately, continuity surgery. All the stupidity gets cut out and we get something that is a reflection of the best aspects of the Pre-Crisis Bronze Age and Post-Crisis modern era.

And if I'm feeling really petty, I'd make the villain an old Cap villain called the Three Faces of Evil, a Lovecraftian demon that is the literal embodiment of evil. And maybe make each head represent someone like Dan DiDio, Geoff Johns and Zack Snyder. Possibly with them being aided by some being calling itself Hypertime that resembles Grant Morrison.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donated.
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 2572
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: DeKamore, Madiganistan

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:07 pm And if I'm feeling really petty, I'd make the villain an old Cap villain called the Three Faces of Evil, a Lovecraftian demon that is the literal embodiment of evil. And maybe make each head represent someone like Dan DiDio, Geoff Johns and Zack Snyder. Possibly with them being aided by some being calling itself Hypertime that resembles Grant Morrison.
Alternatively, we could just make a certain collection of Seven statues be caricatures of (in no particular order) Diane Nelson, Dan Didio, Bob Harras, Zack Snyder, Geoff Johns, Jim Lee, and Grant Morrison
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

PP: Yes, but now I work for the United Nations.

W: So your work has not changed.
NoOneofConsequence
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:11 pm
Location: Beyond Thunder River

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

That's probably less petty than my "kill the entire Marvel Universe and start over" idea.

At least two preludes, one in which the Watcher(s) confirm that the rest of the multiverse has ceased to exist. Not disappeared, not missing. Gone. Like the end of that one What If issue where Korvak defeated the Avengers and ended up erasing that entire reality. The other is the death of all of the gods, save a handful of survivors.

Then four "events" happening at the same time.

"Plague", in which a new version of Stryfe - the evil Cable clone - arrives from a potential future to infect the world with a more powerful version of the Legacy Virus, killing 99.9% of the mutant population, and even some of those with latent mutant genes. Basically a lot of wallowing in tragic pathos as everyone watches everyone else die. In the end, there'd be less than 10 mutant characters left. Probably Firestar, Scarlet Witch, Franklin Richards, Wolverine (because he's going to have more bad things happen to him), Deadpool, and two or three others.

"Famine", in which all of the magic energy is fading out, causing every mystically powered character to become increasingly weaker and less powerful. Out of desperation, a bunch of them - starting with bad guys, but later a free for all - start killing other magic users and mystical beings in an effort to have more of the rapidly shrinking pie. Ultimately, Damian Hellstrom is the last one standing, having killed Mephisto, only at the last second to get shanked in the back by the returned Dr. Druid. Because screw Warren Ellis.

"War", in which some long forgotten and imprisoned member of the Elders of the Universe, one devoted entirely to war simply for the sake of destruction and slaughter, has escaped and has through his machinations plunged the entire universe into incredibly destructive total war. All of the major galactic empires collapse into civil wars, and a great number of planets get destroyed. Most of Marvel's cosmic characters are killed by the time the war is over. The universe is a lifeless wasteland, and the small number of refugees head for the only remaining sanctuary, Earth.

"Death", in which something accidentally unleashes what was (recently deceased) Henry Peter Gyrich's "final solution" to the superhuman problem, an artificial lifeform utilizing various technologies recovered from study of the various Sentinel incarnations (including Nimrod), the Super Adaptoid, Kree Sentries, and so forth. It's designed for the sole purpose of killing superhumans, and it does it very very well. Probably starting with Iron Man and Captain Marvel. In the end, there's about a dozen or so superhumans left. Wolverine will be one of them, but pretty much left crippled after the thing beats him so badly that his skeleton is warped and dented, limiting his mobility, and one of his arms is cut off (when it grows back, it has no bones).

And finally, "Armageddon", in which Apocalypse returns to his full power and purpose he was created for, that of testing the inhabitants of Earth to see if they are worthy to survive. The last heroes ultimately defeat him, but his creator, the Final Celestial, decides against them, and earth is destroyed. And with it goes the last life in the universe. We fade to black, and the last page is an homage to the Death of Captain Marvel cover, with Death holding the dead Eternity. Followed by a big The End.

About six months to a year later, the launch of an all new all different Marvel, with three lines. Marvel Legacy, which is all ages stories about some of the more well known classic characters in their classic incarnations (college age Peter Parker Spider Man, Clairmont era X-Men, Iron Man, Simonson era Thor, etc, maxing out at probably 12 titles), Marvel Max, which is an adult line with stuff like Deadpool, Venom, The Punisher, and Daredevil. And Marvel Now, which takes the idea that Classic Marvel was about 10 to 20 years ago, and these are a new generation of superheroes. A few of these would be some of the more recent creations but with hopefully a lot of the stupid knocked out of them. Because I am the king of petty.
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
NoOneofConsequence
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:11 pm
Location: Beyond Thunder River

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

I feel the need for a book about Johnathan Kent and Damian Wayne that is mostly divorced from the dictates of regular DC continuity. (You know, the sort of thing that would be super easy to do if DC would just lean into the idea that they've got a multiverse of infinite worlds to play with.) Sort of what would happen if you were to do a generally fun and optimistic animated series about the duo.

I'd called it Tomorrow's Finest: Superboy & Robin.

Have the two of them at about 14 or 15 years of age, maybe. And I'd kind of like to have it introduce a 12 or 13 year old version of Mar'i Grayson/Nightstar, Dick and Kori's daughter, who is probably crushing heavily on Damian because he's so dark and broody. Maybe also Avia, the daughter of Big Barda and Mister Miracle.
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
NoOneofConsequence
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:11 pm
Location: Beyond Thunder River

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

Not a comics thing, but if I ruled Disney with carte blanche and an unlimited budget, there would be many, many changes.

Putting a stop to any more live action remakes or sequels to animated films would just be the beginning.
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
Jabroniville
Posts: 15717
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Jabroniville »

NoOneofConsequence wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:06 am Not a comics thing, but if I ruled Disney with carte blanche and an unlimited budget, there would be many, many changes.

Putting a stop to any more live action remakes or sequels to animated films would just be the beginning.
But live action Frozen and then Frozen Threeeeeeeeeee...
Darrin Kelley
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:47 pm

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Darrin Kelley »

If I had unlimited cash? I would approach the current person in ownership of every property Rob Liefeld made as an Independent, and buy those properties out of spite. Then do as Disney has done with so many other properties and just sit on them. Not allowing them to be licensed or used in any way. Just leave them in an uncertain void forever. Which would effectively erase most of his legacy.
NoOneofConsequence
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:11 pm
Location: Beyond Thunder River

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

I actually enjoyed the work Alan Moore did with Supreme, Youngblood and some of his other characters. I'd honestly be curious to see what an actually competent writing and art team would be able to do with the concept of Badrock. Although it would probably have to start with the open acknowledgement that that the character is a total adolescent dork and that his chosen superhero name clearly reflects this fact. I admire Liefeld's overall enthusiasm for the genre, but his artwork has always been terrible.

Hmm. Some sort of 90s-verse shared universe of characters like Badrock, Nightman, Prime, MANTIS, and the like might actually be kind of amusing.


(My next Disney Decree: Tearing down EPCOT for the All New All Updated EPCOT.)
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
User avatar
squirrelly-sama
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:07 am

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by squirrelly-sama »

I'd create 11 different versions of the same comic with very slight changes no one would notice but would be brought up alot in wiki debates and then when the jig is up I'd appologize and publically say I'll recall all 12 versions to make a new singular product.
NoOneofConsequence
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:11 pm
Location: Beyond Thunder River

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

squirrelly-sama wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:30 am I'd create 11 different versions of the same comic with very slight changes no one would notice but would be brought up alot in wiki debates and then when the jig is up I'd appologize and publically say I'll recall all 12 versions to make a new singular product.
Is this similar to the X of Swords gambit, where one just reprints the same art but with different dialog?
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
User avatar
squirrelly-sama
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:07 am

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by squirrelly-sama »

NoOneofConsequence wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:14 pm
squirrelly-sama wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:30 am I'd create 11 different versions of the same comic with very slight changes no one would notice but would be brought up alot in wiki debates and then when the jig is up I'd appologize and publically say I'll recall all 12 versions to make a new singular product.
Is this similar to the X of Swords gambit, where one just reprints the same art but with different dialog?
It'd be small details about how things work or people so that when it inevitably gets added to some type of wiki no one can agree what's actually true because no one knows that they're reading different versions of the same comic.
NoOneofConsequence
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:11 pm
Location: Beyond Thunder River

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

squirrelly-sama wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:19 pm It'd be small details about how things work or people so that when it inevitably gets added to some type of wiki no one can agree what's actually true because no one knows that they're reading different versions of the same comic.
Wow, that's almost sadistic. :)
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
Jabroniville
Posts: 15717
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: The most petty thing you'd do as a comics creator

Post by Jabroniville »

squirrelly-sama wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:19 pm
NoOneofConsequence wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:14 pm
squirrelly-sama wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:30 am I'd create 11 different versions of the same comic with very slight changes no one would notice but would be brought up alot in wiki debates and then when the jig is up I'd appologize and publically say I'll recall all 12 versions to make a new singular product.
Is this similar to the X of Swords gambit, where one just reprints the same art but with different dialog?
It'd be small details about how things work or people so that when it inevitably gets added to some type of wiki no one can agree what's actually true because no one knows that they're reading different versions of the same comic.
That's evil and sadistic but also pretty much what comics does anyways, but by accident :).
Post Reply