What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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saint_matthew
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by saint_matthew » Wed May 13, 2020 1:13 am

So a DC 5G update. Sounds like it might be dead, according to bleeding cool.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Wed May 13, 2020 2:41 am

saint_matthew wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:13 am
So a DC 5G update. Sounds like it might be dead, according to bleeding cool.
Here's hoping. Everything about it sounded like such a mess.

"Hey folks, we're going to set up a new status quo where EVERYONE has been replaced with a younger generation hero, with 75% of them being race and gender swaps! If you want to read the original heroes you actually enjoy, you'll have to fork over more money for our Black Label books! Watch as we explore new aspects of the DCU, such as why characters don't seem to age! You know, stuff you take for granted due to a sliding timescale! How long has that Archie kid been a teenager? These are questions that MUST be answered!"

I mean, if DC wanted to do a line of books centered on the next generation of heroes set in a possible future, all they have to do is follow the MC2 formula. Make that a side project where you can test the waters for that kind of interest, rather than potentially tanking your entire line by jumping head first into this mass replacement agenda and then forcing people to go outside the main line to get the actual heroes people want to read about.

DC should honestly be using this time to pump the breaks and re-think everything from the ground up. You now have months of potential dead air. Get everyone on a mass conference chat and hash things out. Get an actual plan for the universe now that Dan DiDio is gone and Geoff Johns isn't the big swinging dick anymore. You know those reprints of stories from the 70s, 80s and 90s that outsell your modern books? Maybe there's a reason for that.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader » Fri May 15, 2020 12:49 am

5G sounded like an absolute train wreck.

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Ken
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ken » Fri May 15, 2020 1:01 am

greycrusader wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:49 am
5G sounded like an absolute train wreck.
5G sounded like a helicopter crashed into a 747 and both landed on a busy road, that caused a loaded school bus to skid onto a train track, where it was hit by a train, killing everyone, and then part of the derailing train fell off of a bridge over a river that then slammed into a passenger ferry.
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

PP: Yes, but now I work for the United Nations.

W: So your work has not changed.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by saint_matthew » Fri May 15, 2020 4:23 pm

Upside is we at least have the Star Girl tv show to look forward to.

Here's hoping Berlanti doesn't Berlanti it to badly.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader » Fri May 15, 2020 11:00 pm

Ken wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:01 am
greycrusader wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:49 am
5G sounded like an absolute train wreck.
5G sounded like a helicopter crashed into a 747 and both landed on a busy road, that caused a loaded school bus to skid onto a train track, where it was hit by a train, killing everyone, and then part of the derailing train fell off of a bridge over a river that then slammed into a passenger ferry.
And honestly, I'm not opposed to change. Wally West was pretty much THE Flash for me, though I witnessed Barry Allen's later days, and his heroic sacrifice. I didn't like what was done to Hal Jordan, but he really works better as an archetype than a character, and I prefer both Guy and John (lukewarm to the others). Ant-Man is more fun that Hank Pym. I even think Steve Rogers could be replaced as Captain America. There are only a few I think are sacrosanct (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Fantastic Four, maybe a couple others).

But replacing ALL the major DC heroes at once in the monthly titles, expecting readers to suddenly buy-into a whole new continuity, and have to spend three times the amount per issue to follow the "old guard"? Yeah, THAT sounded like it would have been a RESOUNDING success, a real moneymaker for DC.

Cripes, was Didio ACTIVELY trying to kill the company off, once and for all? How did someone THAT bad at his job stay so high up for so long?

(Don't bother to tell me-I've had extensive experience with corporate executive morons, including the lot who managed to drive a century old company into liquidation 18 months after they acquired it).

All my best.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by saint_matthew » Sat May 16, 2020 12:15 am

greycrusader wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:00 pm
(Don't bother to tell me-I've had extensive experience with corporate executive morons, including the lot who managed to drive a century old company into liquidation 18 months after they acquired it).
Actually there was a great video I watched last week about that exact topic, how when a company becomes too big, too entrenched, they stop being competitive, stop creating & instead just start acquiring companies for their IP's, only to then run them in to the ground because those IP's to that big company mean nothing, they just become another "line item."

The video was called "The Iger Sanctioning: Corporate Culture put Creativity in Critical Condition" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhC5fMyU_I&t=1036s

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader » Sat May 16, 2020 2:36 am

Yes, that was essentially the case, with the novel twist the company I worked for was being milked to help prop up two other flagging lines; the corporation's American brands are now just about defunct, though it still operates elsewhere.

The first sign of trouble came shortly after the business was acquired, when after a few months, our two long-standing warehouses/distribution centers were shut down, because all goods would now flow through the newly built, modern facilities...which somehow turned out not to have enough space to accommodate the volume, nor enough staff (the company brilliantly situated the building next to a much larger, union-wages paying warehouse). They compensated by hiring a cut-rate trucking firm. And the brilliance continued from there on...

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Jabroniville » Sat May 16, 2020 8:01 am

saint_matthew wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:15 am
greycrusader wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:00 pm
(Don't bother to tell me-I've had extensive experience with corporate executive morons, including the lot who managed to drive a century old company into liquidation 18 months after they acquired it).
Actually there was a great video I watched last week about that exact topic, how when a company becomes too big, too entrenched, they stop being competitive, stop creating & instead just start acquiring companies for their IP's, only to then run them in to the ground because those IP's to that big company mean nothing, they just become another "line item."

The video was called "The Iger Sanctioning: Corporate Culture put Creativity in Critical Condition" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhC5fMyU_I&t=1036s
Wow, that was actually really interesting, especially tying the "Our customers are MORONS!" approach of Big Business (I mean, I work retail; I get it) to what Hollywood's doing, and even explaining how studios got so arrogant that they felt it necessary to publicly mock people in their prospective fanbase. That it's started to trickle down into individual CREATORS (particularly comics writers) yelling at fans is telling; as is a bit of the modern sentiment of "OMG why aren't our pictures making money? Are we so out of touch? No- it's the CHILDREN who are wrong!"

I also like how he didn't just hit a bunch of buzzwords like "SJW" or "Virtue Signaling", even though the debates can lean that way (especially with Ghostbusters). It made the argument a lot more original and less inflammatory.

Disney's failures to create male-based franchises was something I brought up with my Disney Builds- they wanted a "Heroes" line to match their Princesses, but utterly failed. Their product was seen as too "girly" and didn't work. So they just bought up all the studios they could.

If you've ever read Creativity, Inc., it's about how Pixar became so big, and how they helped Disney's animation wing when the companies merged- because in that case, Disney did the SMART thing and had the new upstarts change the main company's modus operandi (in this case, Pixar guys had to break through the "never speak up and say what's wrong with this movie" approach that Disney had).

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Mon May 18, 2020 6:52 pm

So I just did a speed read of the Jonathan Hickman Avengers series. It's like he's constantly trying to out-convolute himself.

But hey, at least Thor has both of his eyes and arms back.

*EDIT*

I just realized that its Jason Aaron writing the Avengers, not Hickman. I'm a goof. It doesn't excuse Aaron's problems, but I can't blame Hickman for them.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by saint_matthew » Tue May 19, 2020 3:47 am

Ares wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 6:52 pm
So I just did a speed read of the Jonathan Hickman Avengers series. It's like he's constantly trying to out-convolute himself.
That's because Hickman cannot write superheroes, like at a fundamental level he simply doesn't understand the concept.

At his core he's a science fiction writer with a writing kink towards empire building & ideologically driven militarisation. This has always been his thing, so when you get a writer like that to write Avengers, or Infinity, it immediately turns in to Sci-Fi Space military version of Game of Thrones.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares » Tue May 19, 2020 4:50 am

saint_matthew wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 3:47 am
Ares wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 6:52 pm
So I just did a speed read of the Jonathan Hickman Avengers series. It's like he's constantly trying to out-convolute himself.
That's because Hickman cannot write superheroes, like at a fundamental level he simply doesn't understand the concept.

At his core he's a science fiction writer with a writing kink towards empire building & ideologically driven militarisation. This has always been his thing, so when you get a writer like that to write Avengers, or Infinity, it immediately turns in to Sci-Fi Space military version of Game of Thrones.
That makes a sad amount of sense in explaining pretty much everything he's done. Basically he'd be better off on a sci-fi TV series like Babylon 5 or some television adaptation of Starship Troopers. Or hell, give him the Battletech/Mechwarrior setting.

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Davies » Wed May 20, 2020 5:37 am

The DCeased series finished its second arc, describing the fate of those left behind. It ends on a surprisingly optimistic note, and certain people might be happy to see a certain young lady use the word, "Shazam" without referring to herself as such.

It's also started a third arc, but while the story is still compelling, the art is making my eyes bleed.

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