So ....about M&M 4th edition...

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RKane_1
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by RKane_1 »

Math = PURE EVIL!

Why am I poor? MATH DID IT TO ME!!! :(

I like the option of keeping it as is but making it cheaper.

Impervious costs one level per rank but tops out at half you total power level. Each level allows you to ignore any attacks below that power level.

Penetrating is also one point per level and tops out at half your Protection level and cancels Penetrating on a one to one basis.

Cheaper, easier to understand, and math easier to work with QED. :)
Last edited by RKane_1 on Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
RKane_1
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by RKane_1 »

Another suggestion:

Communication costs 2 pts per level and does not require a receiver. Making it require a Receiver is a -1/r Flaw
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Batgirl III
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by Batgirl III »

Languages is replaced with two tiered Advantage. One rank lets you know your native language and one extra language for every pip of Intelligence bonus you have (minimum one). Two ranks gives you the same as one rank, plus any time you are in a scene where you need to speak a new language, you can roll an Intellect check (with a DC determined by the GM; widely known languages are DC 10, obscure or ancient languages DC 15, alien languages DC 20, etc.) if you succeed you know that language.

Image

Currently, it’s much cheaper to buy Comprehend Languages 6 (Speak One at a Time, Understand All, Read All; Flaws: Limited to Broad Type [Human]) for 3 PP and gain fluency with every language on Earth than it is to buy enough ranks in the Languages Advantage (4) for fluency in sixteen languages... and the core rulebook even explicitly calls out that language barriers aren’t usually an issue in comics!
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
MacynSnow
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by MacynSnow »

Honestly don't think it's needed at all, but i understand why certain PC's/NPC's would have it(Wolverine was a government agent & Spy, so he naturally had to have it. Same for Banshee.)...
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Batgirl III
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by Batgirl III »

Way back when, I made the Stargate SG-1 crew, Daniel Jackson speaks 23 languages... That requires five ranks of the Languages Advantage. One point more could buy an unlimited Comprehend Languages and two points less could but the limited one I posted above. The Batman is fluent in forty languages, the math on that is just nuts.

And we’re not talking about something that has much impact on the course of gameplay.
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
RKane_1
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by RKane_1 »

I make Languages a Skill. Every PURCHASED rank doubles your "Language" points. You can roll if someone starts using "Big words" or complicated syntax, etc. So someone with Intelligence +5 and 4 ranks, can have 8 Language Points and be at a +7 to try to roll to understand something in the language someone is speaking. That's the gist of it but there is a little more verisimilitude to it.
FuzzyBoots
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Another thing which I think ought to be changed is Morph. 5 PP for a single form is pretty silly. Either let it have ranks and types like with 2E, or make the single form version something like a 1 PP Feature (which, frankly, shows up all of the time as "people don't realize it's your alter ego"), then let the narrow group be 5 PP. That means buying a mask for your hero is 1 EP to have a low likelihood of someone realizing that Batman looks a lot like Bruce Wayne, or 1 PP for the "less likely to be damaged or misplaced during an attack and requiring borrowing a paper bag to wear" version.
CaptainChaos
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by CaptainChaos »

I like the idea of tiered costs for skill points. Some GM's use that as a house rule where combat skills are 1:2 and all others are 1:3 or 1:4. Languages are expensive to take in 3e. Comprehend is cheaper but if you are making a non-powered hero that option doesn't make sense. Adding more archetypes to the book is a good idea. I sometimes find myself looking through the old 2e archetypes for character ideas. I don't think a completely new 4e is needed, just some additions and tweaks/changes to some things in 3e would work for me. They could just make a 3.5e like D&D did that was similar enough to 3e but had enough changes to justify buying.
Shock
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by Shock »

CaptainChaos wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:34 pm I like the idea of tiered costs for skill points. Some GM's use that as a house rule where combat skills are 1:2 and all others are 1:3 or 1:4. Languages are expensive to take in 3e. Comprehend is cheaper but if you are making a non-powered hero that option doesn't make sense. Adding more archetypes to the book is a good idea. I sometimes find myself looking through the old 2e archetypes for character ideas. I don't think a completely new 4e is needed, just some additions and tweaks/changes to some things in 3e would work for me. They could just make a 3.5e like D&D did that was similar enough to 3e but had enough changes to justify buying.
What about a book full of optional rules? They could have alternate skills systems, power changes, etc

You could do a tier system like:
Combat skills - 1:2
Non-combat skills - 1:3
Background skills - 1:4
MacynSnow
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by MacynSnow »

I had an idea that could work. You know that Style list they got? Use it. Each "Style" would have it own "Ban list" of Powers/Advantges allowed.
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squirrelly-sama
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Re: So ....about M&M 4th edition...

Post by squirrelly-sama »

Like Ares said, there's a lot of small changes that would be best handled in a 3.5 edition style with a bunch of patches and fixes without messing with the whole system enough to justify a reboot. Effects having price changes, little updates to effects to clear up common misunderstandings or make them more generally useful, fixing the god awful way the core book was structured which makes it so hard to find and keep track of important RAW since it's only mentioned once in passing in a completely unrelated section.

If there was a 4th edition there's some major overhauls I'd like to see.
Removing the split between range and melee attack/defense. These are pointlessly split and only serve to add extra cost to being redundant which serves only to harm character concepts with no real benefit to balancing. Honestly accuracy as a skill shouldn't really exist, maybe just having pure general accuracy, maybe an advantage to give a PL limited +2/5 to a specific weapon or limited style.

The introduction of some sort of simple HP system independent of toughness. Something like having as much HP as you have PL so it's not directly tied to an Ability. As it currently is having HP directly linked to Toughness makes tanking much more effective than dodging since it makes it much easier to oneshot a dodger. It could probably decrease based on how many degrees you passed both checks by.

Redo the skills. A lot of skills may as well just be expertise with how few characters use them and not even being usable by default. Treatment, Tech, and Vehicles don't need to exist outside of expertise or advantages. Acrobatics, Investigation, and Slight of Hand should be available by default. You could probably drop 2 Abilities and re-consolidate them to keep the prices even.

An introduction of effects that can influence actions in some form, granting extra actions, causing someone to act out of initiative order, or similar. While powerful it's sort of needed in order to emulate certain types of powers like those affecting time or speed. Honestly you could throw boosting effects in there, that's one of the most common issues with building you see. There's just no way to make temporary buffs due to how PL works.

More uses for Move Actions, honestly maneuvers should be move actions with Improved versions making it possible to use them as free actions. A lot of useless things that cost a Standard Action could be improved massively by letting it be a Move Action. Improved Aim, trips, feints, etc.

Ways to go above PL in some limited fashion such as a Specialization to do make an effect only work against certain things (+2 damage to undead or +2 toughness vs Fire) or some sort of Motivations/Heroics contrast to the complications list that grants the effects of a specific HP use without the use of one in thematically appropriate circumstances. Really just something to showcase characters going beyond the normal system limits in certain circumstance rather than just being weaker by default in order to simulate those bursts of power.
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