Warhammer 40,000 (Defiler)

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Batgirl III
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Land Raider

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:59 am

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SPACE MARINE LAND RAIDERS
Warhammer 40,000 Equipment
Brother-Sergeant Chronus, Ultramarines Armoury wrote:The roar of engines, the recoil of cannons. That is where the true joy of battle lies.
Land Raider Phobos
Equipment Rank 14-17 ( 70-85 EP )

VEHICLE TRAITS
Size: Gargantuan [ 3 EP ]
Strength: 13 [ 1 EP ]
Speed: 4 (30 MPH) [ 4 EP ]
Defense: 6 [ 12 EP ]
Toughness: 14 [ 3 EP ]

VEHICLE POWERS
Adamantium Hull Impervious Toughness 7 [ 7 EP ]
Smoke Launchers Concealment 2 (Normal Vision; E: Area [30' Cloud; 2], Attack; F: Blending, Duration [Concentration], Partial, Unreliable [five uses]) [ 2 EP ]
Searchlight Feature 1 [ 1 EP ]
Vox Link Communication 2 (Radio: Short Range; E: Subtle [1]; F: Limited to Space Marines in same Company) [ 7 PP ]
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter Turret Damage 6 (E: Dynamic [1], Extended Range [1], Improved Critical [4], Ranged, Multiattack) [ 24 EP ]
DAE: Storm Bolter Damage 6 (E: Improved Critical [2], Ranged, Multiattack) [ 2 EP ]
DAE: Twin-Linked Lascannon Sponsons Damage 7 (E: Improved Critical [3], , Penetrating [6], Ranged) [ 2 EP ]
DAE: Multi-Melta Damage 9 (E: Penetrating [9], Ranged, Secondary Effect [6 Ranks]; F: Diminished Range [1], Distracting) [ 2 EP ]

VEHICLE UPGRADES
The Land Raider Phobos may be upgraded with any of the following:
Dozer Blade Enhanced Ability 1 (+1 STR; F: Limited to Slam Damage); Immunity 2 (Self-Inflicted Slam Damage [2]); Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) [ 5 EP ]
Extra Armor Enhanced Advantage 1 (Ultimate Toughness); Impervious Toughness 4 [ 5 EP ]
Hunter-Killer Missile Damage 7 (E: Penetrating [5], Ranged; F: Inaccurate [2], Unreliable [single use; 2]) [ 5 EP ]

MINI-RANT
Land Raider Phobos is the proper name for the basic Land Raider variant. A lot of player's refer to it as the "Godhammer," but this is incorrect name derived from the Godhammer-pattern Lascannons carried in its sponsons. Makes as much sense as calling the Crusader a "Land Raider Goodwyn." Also, an easy way for you to know if a 40K player has been in the hobby a long time is if they refer to these models as "the new Land Raiders."

Land Raider Crusader
Equipment Rank 15-18 ( 75-90 EP )

VEHICLE TRAITS
Size: Gargantuan [ 3 EP ]
Strength: 13 [ 1 EP ]
Speed: 4 (30 MPH) [ 4 EP ]
Defense: 6 [ 12 EP ]
Toughness: 14 [ 3 EP ]

VEHICLE POWERS
Adamantium Hull Impervious Toughness 7 [ 7 EP ]
Assault Launchers Concealment 2 (Normal Vision; E: Area [30' Cloud; 2], Attack; F: Blending, Duration [Concentration], Partial, Unreliable [five uses]); linked to Damage 5 (E: Area [15' Burst]; F: Diminished Area [1], Unreliable [five uses]) [ 7 EP ]
Searchlight Feature 1 [ 1 EP ]
Vox Link Communication 2 (Radio: Short Range; E: Subtle [1]; F: Limited to Space Marines in same Company) [ 7 PP ]
Twin-Linked Assault Cannon Turret Damage 6 (E: Dynamic [1], Improved Critical [5], Ranged, Multiattack, Penetrating [2]) [ 26 EP ]
DAE: Hurricane Bolter Sponsons Damage 6 (E: Area [5x30' Line], Improved Critical [1], Ranged, Multiattack) [ 2 EP ]
DAE: Multi-Melta Damage 9 (E: Penetrating [9], Ranged, Secondary Effect [6 Ranks]; F: Diminished Range [1], Distracting) [ 2 EP ]

VEHICLE UPGRADES
The Land Raider Crusader may be upgraded with any of the following:
Dozer Blade Enhanced Ability 1 (+1 STR; F: Limited to Slam Damage); Immunity 2 (Self-Inflicted Slam Damage [2]); Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) [ 5 EP ]
Extra Armor Enhanced Advantage 1 (Ultimate Toughness); Impervious Toughness 4 [ 5 EP ]
Hunter-Killer Missile Damage 7 (E: Penetrating [5], Ranged; F: Inaccurate [2], Unreliable [single use; 2]) [ 5 EP ]

Land Raider Redeemer
Equipment Rank 15-18 ( 75-90 EP )

VEHICLE TRAITS
Size: Gargantuan [ 3 EP ]
Strength: 13 [ 1 EP ]
Speed: 4 (30 MPH) [ 4 EP ]
Defense: 6 [ 12 EP ]
Toughness: 14 [ 3 EP ]

VEHICLE POWERS
Adamantium Hull Impervious Toughness 7 [ 7 EP ]
Assault Launchers Concealment 2 (Normal Vision; E: Area [30' Cloud; 2], Attack; F: Blending, Duration [Concentration], Partial, Unreliable [five uses]); linked to Damage 5 (E: Area [15' Burst]; F: Diminished Area [1], Unreliable [five uses]) [ 7 EP ]
Searchlight Feature 1 [ 1 EP ]
Vox Link Communication 2 (Radio: Short Range; E: Subtle [1]; F: Limited to Space Marines in same Company) [ 7 PP ]
Twin-Linked Assault Cannon Turret Damage 6 (E: Dynamic [1], Improved Critical [5], Ranged, Multiattack, Penetrating [2]) [ 26 EP ]
DAE: Flamestorm Cannon Sponsons Damage 6 (E: Area [60' Cone], Incurable [1], Ranged, Secondary Effect, Split [1]; F: Activation [Move, -1], Diminished Range [2]); Enhanced Advantage 2 (Precise Attack [Close; Cover and Concealment]) [ 2 PP ]
DAE: Storm Bolter Damage 6 (E: Improved Critical [2], Ranged, Multiattack) [ 2 EP ]

VEHICLE UPGRADES
The Land Raider Redeemer may be upgraded with any of the following:
Dozer Blade Enhanced Ability 1 (+1 STR; F: Limited to Slam Damage); Immunity 2 (Self-Inflicted Slam Damage [2]); Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) [ 5 EP ]
Extra Armor Enhanced Advantage 1 (Ultimate Toughness); Impervious Toughness 4 [ 5 EP ]
Hunter-Killer Missile Damage 7 (E: Penetrating [5], Ranged; F: Inaccurate [2], Unreliable [single use; 2]) [ 5 EP ]

Land Raider Achilles
Equipment Rank 15-19 ( 90-120 EP )

VEHICLE TRAITS
Size: Gargantuan [ 3 EP ]
Strength: 13 [ 1 EP ]
Speed: 4 (30 MPH) [ 4 EP ]
Defense: 6 [ 12 EP ]
Toughness: 14 [ 3 EP ]

VEHICLE POWERS
Adamantium Hull Impervious Toughness 7 [ 7 EP ]
Extra Armor Enhanced Advantage 1 (Ultimate Toughness); Impervious Toughness 4 [ 5 EP ]
Ferromantic Invulnerability Immunity 11 (Thunderfire Cannon [1], Fire/Melta Effects [10]; F: Fire/Melta Immunity Limited to Half Effect) [ 6 EP ]
Searchlight Feature 1 [ 1 EP ]
Smoke Launchers Concealment 2 (Normal Vision; E: Area [30' Cloud; 2], Attack; F: Blending, Duration [Concentration], Partial, Unreliable [five uses]) [ 2 EP ]
Vox Link Communication 2 (Radio: Short Range; E: Subtle [1]; F: Limited to Space Marines in same Company) [ 7 PP ]
Thunderfire Cannon, Airburst Damage 5 (E: Area [60' Burst], Dynamic [1], Extended Range [1], Indirect [4], Ranged, Multiattack); Enhanced Advantage 2 (Precise Attack [Close; Cover and Concealment]) [ 31 EP ]
DAE: Thunderfire Cannon, Surface Detonation Damage 6 (E: Area [30' Burst], Extended Range [1], Improved Critical [2], Indirect [3], Multiattack, Penetrating [2], Ranged) [ 2 EP ]
DAE: Thunderfire Cannon, Subterranean Blast Affliction 8 (Resist/Recover: Fortitude; Conditions: Vulnerable, Defenseless; E: Area [60' Burst], Extended Range [1], Indirect [3], Ranged; F: Instant Recovery, Limited to Two Degrees, Limited to targets on ground) linked to: Damage 5 (E: Area [30' Burst], Extended Range [1], Indirect [3], Ranged, Multiattack) [ 2 PP ]
DAE: Twin-Linked Multi-Melta Sponsons Damage 9 (E: Penetrating [9], Ranged, Secondary Effect [5 Ranks]; F: Diminished Range [1]) [ 31 EP ]
DAE: Storm Bolter Damage 6 (E: Improved Critical [2], Ranged, Multiattack) [ 2 EP ]

VEHICLE UPGRADES
The Land Raider Achilles may be upgraded with any of the following:
Dozer Blade Enhanced Ability 1 (+1 STR; F: Limited to Slam Damage); Immunity 2 (Self-Inflicted Slam Damage [2]); Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) [ 5 EP ]
Extra Armor Enhanced Advantage 1 (Ultimate Toughness); Impervious Toughness 4 [ 5 EP ]
Hunter-Killer Missile Damage 7 (E: Penetrating [5], Ranged; F: Inaccurate [2], Unreliable [single use; 2]) [ 5 EP ]

Land Raider Helios
Equipment Rank 13-16 ( 65-80 EP )

VEHICLE TRAITS
Size: Gargantuan [ 3 EP ]
Strength: 13 [ 1 EP ]
Speed: 4 (30 MPH) [ 4 EP ]
Defense: 6 [ 12 EP ]
Toughness: 14 [ 3 EP ]

VEHICLE POWERS
Adamantium Hull Impervious Toughness 7 [ 7 EP ]
Smoke Launchers Concealment 2 (Normal Vision; E: Area [30' Cloud; 2], Attack; F: Blending, Duration [Concentration], Partial, Unreliable [five uses]) [ 2 EP ]
Searchlight Feature 1 [ 1 EP ]
Vox Link Communication 2 (Radio: Short Range; E: Subtle [1]; F: Limited to Space Marines in same Company) [ 7 PP ]
Helios Missile Launcher (Vengeance) Damage 6 (E: Area [60' Burst; x2], Extended Range [2], Indirect [3], Ranged; F: Limited to Medium or Long Range) [ 23 EP ]
AE: Helios Missle Launcher (Castellan) Damage 5 (E: Area [60' Burst; x2], Extended Range [2], Indirect [3], Ranged, Secondary Effect; F: Limited to Medium or Long Range, Limited [No Area on Secondary Effect]); Enhanced Advantage 2 (Precise Attack [Close; Cover and Concealment]) [ 1 EP ]
AE: Twin-Linked Lascannon Sponsons Damage 7 (E: Improved Critical [3], Penetrating [6], Ranged) [ 1 EP ]
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Dreadnought)

Post by BriarThrone » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:08 am
My Imperial Guard Armored Company (the 17th/21st Mordian Lancers) had a tough time of things in 6th Edition, when the only way to win most missions was to either table the enemy or hold certain Objectives. But the only units that were able to "score" Objectives were Infantry... So might mighty Armored Company which consisted of something like 10-13 Leman Russ Battle Tanks of various types always had to bring along two or three Armored Fist Squads. An Armored Fist Squad is ten bog-standard Imperial Guardsmen in a Chimera APC, with a more limited selection of wargear than normal. Putting 13 Leman Russ Battle Tanks on the table was intimidating to a lot of players, but once they realized they only needed to kill 20 squishy Guardsmen to secure victory, experienced players found my army a cakewalk. Seriously, if you can't kill 20 Guardsmen in Six Turns, you need to stop playing 40K.

...

Final turn... Sgt. Hooke hits and wounds with every one of the three attacks he has. The Tyrant falls!

The Mordians win the day!

Sgt. Hooke was given a promotion to Colour Sergeant, made the Regimental Standard Bearer, and treated to a fresh coat of paint.

Image
The tale of Sgt Hooke is one of faith and valor! The Emperor protects! Cleanse the holy soil of Imperial worlds of the xenos scum!
Batgirl III wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:56 pm
This isn't just one of those things where gameplay doesn't back up the fluff, if you dig into Forge World's Imperial Armour coffee-table books, its right there in the background of these vehicles: the Space Marines haven't had a proper main battle tank since the Horus Heresy. The Predator fills that role for them, but it began life as a Infantry Fighting Vehicle, akin to the Razorback, and gradually lost its transport capacity in order to increase its ammo stores. By the standards of the Imperial Guard its basically an up-armored recce unit... BLAM! Mockery of the vehicles of the Adeptus Astartes is Heresy!
I'm uncertain of whether or not the lore will back me up on this, because I haven't read everything relevant, but my hypothesis is that the Codex Astartes specifically limits the armor options of the Astartes to focus their battlefield role and increase cooperation with the Imperial Guard, creating greater cohesion among Imperial forces. The Legions were split to avoid too great a concentration of power, and Space Marines having the option of main battle tanks seems a bit contrary to that aim. Keeping them mainly focused on acting as shock troops or supporting the Imperial Guard seems like the sort of thing I'd do in Guilliman's place. But then, I'm not a primarch.

Also: seeing the Land Raider Crusader here is an absolute pleasure for me.

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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Dreadnought)

Post by Woodclaw » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:37 am

BriarThrone wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 am
Batgirl III wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:56 pm
This isn't just one of those things where gameplay doesn't back up the fluff, if you dig into Forge World's Imperial Armour coffee-table books, its right there in the background of these vehicles: the Space Marines haven't had a proper main battle tank since the Horus Heresy. The Predator fills that role for them, but it began life as a Infantry Fighting Vehicle, akin to the Razorback, and gradually lost its transport capacity in order to increase its ammo stores. By the standards of the Imperial Guard its basically an up-armored recce unit... BLAM! Mockery of the vehicles of the Adeptus Astartes is Heresy!
I'm uncertain of whether or not the lore will back me up on this, because I haven't read everything relevant, but my hypothesis is that the Codex Astartes specifically limits the armor options of the Astartes to focus their battlefield role and increase cooperation with the Imperial Guard, creating greater cohesion among Imperial forces. The Legions were split to avoid too great a concentration of power, and Space Marines having the option of main battle tanks seems a bit contrary to that aim. Keeping them mainly focused on acting as shock troops or supporting the Imperial Guard seems like the sort of thing I'd do in Guilliman's place. But then, I'm not a primarch.

Also: seeing the Land Raider Crusader here is an absolute pleasure for me.
Aside from the usual MPS, Machien Cult, Omnissiah fluff, one of the biggest problem in designing an tank for the astartes is the sheer size of the crew. Even in present day tanks internal space is a big concern. Years ago I had the chance to sit in a Leopard II tanks and I could barely fit (I'm 1.85 meters in RL). Designing a tank that can be used by a 2.1/2.40 meters tall superman is already a challenge, but if you have to account for the added bulk of the power armor it becomes nearly impossible.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Tanks, Land Raiders)

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:13 pm

The Astartes had a proper main battle tank during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy, the Sicaran Battle Tank and it’s variants. But, of course, it’s design was lost and the few that remain are considered holy relics of yadda yadda yadda...
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Tanks, Land Raiders)

Post by Woodclaw » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:09 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:13 pm
The Astartes had a proper main battle tank during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy, the Sicaran Battle Tank and it’s variants. But, of course, it’s design was lost and the few that remain are considered holy relics of yadda yadda yadda...
Retroengineering is a lost art.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Tanks, Land Raiders)

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:17 pm

It’s also illegal in the Imperium, considered heresy of the blackest sort. Only the intentional summoning dæmons is considered a worse sin.

If you are a highly ranked figure within the Adeptus Terra or Adeptus Mechanicus you might be able to actually innovate. Very well connected members of the Adeptus Astartes or Departmento Munitorium might be able to get away with modifications to existing patterns... But in the entire Imperium no one outside of a chosen few experts from within the Ordo Hereticus and only in one very specific circumstances — creating a Exorcists Chapter Space Marine — is allowed to intentionally summon dæmons.
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Thunder! (Daa-dun-dada-DUN!) Thunder! (Daa-dun-dada-DUN!)

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:17 pm

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SPACE MARINE THUNDERFIRE CANNON
Warhammer 40,000 Equipment
Equipment Rank 9 ( 45 EP )
The Tyrant of Badab wrote:Though my guards may sleep and ships may rest at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
VEHICLE TRAITS
Size: Large [ 1 EP ]
Strength: 5 [ 1 EP ]
Speed: 1 (4 MPH) [ 1 EP ]
Defense: 8 [ 1 EP ]
Toughness: 12 [ 14 EP]

VEHICLE POWERS
Airburst Damage 5 (E: Area [60' Burst], Extended Range [1], Indirect [4], Ranged, Multiattack; F: Activation [Move, -1], Distracting); Enhanced Advantage 2 (Precise Attack [Close; Cover and Concealment]) [ 25 EP ]
AE: Surface Detonation Damage 6 (E: Area [30' Burst], Extended Range [1], Improved Critical [2], Indirect [3], Multiattack, Penetrating [2], Ranged; F: Activation [Move, -1], Distracting) [ 1 EP ]
AE: Subterranean Blast Affliction 8 (Resist/Recover: Fortitude; Conditions: Vulnerable, Defenseless; E: Area [60' Burst], Extended Range [1], Indirect [3], Ranged; F: Activation [Move, -1], Distracting, Instant Recovery, Limited to Two Degrees, Limited to targets on ground) Linked To: Damage 5 (E: Area [30' Burst], Extended Range [1], Indirect [3], Ranged, Multiattack; F: Activation [Move, -1], Distracting) [ 1 PP ]

Background:
Space Marine forces strike hard and fast, and as a result most of their support guns are mounted on vehicles that can keep pace with the rest of the army, such as the Whirlwind. Designed for static defense, the Thunderfire Cannon is the one exception to this rule. Mounted on ponderous but rugged tracks, each Thunderfire Cannon is a quad-barreled gun capable of a punishing rate of fire using shells that can be set to detonate in a variety of different ways, depending on the tactical situation.

Mini-Rant:
The Thunderfire Cannon was originally released as a pewter model and proved incredibly unpopular due to its odd looks and incredibly annoying assembly. It has subsequently been re-released in easier to work with materials but still looks really odd. Folks, when the GW fanbase thinks that an Imperial design is too blocky and oddly proportioned you know it's truly fugly. I stole this idea from one of the many 40k forums and attached the front-half of a Space Marine Bike to the front end of the Thunderfire's carriage. It is really a simple conversion and the resulting "half-track" looks like something it was always meant to be.

In terms of gameplay, the Thunderfire Cannon is something of an "answer in search of a question." Generally speaking, Space Marine armies don't have too much trouble with the sorts of light infantry the Thunderfire Cannon does best against except when they are in very large hordes... And the Whirlwind already handled them just fine. Fluff-wise, they explain that the Thunderfire Cannon is used in terrain the larger Whirlwind can't reach. But have you ever played 40k on a table where a Rhino-chassis tank won't fit? I used my "Thunderfire Bike" as part of my Scout Army as it fit the theme of the force better, but it didn't really wow me in terms of performance over my old reliable Whirlwind. I don't dislike the gun, but having decided to consolidate (and repaint) all my Space Marines into Dark Angels, I'm left with a model that I can't use... Kinda makes me wish I had just spent the money on another Whirlwind.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by BriarThrone » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:41 am

In 8th Edition, troop count is king, and armies that can field scads of small units (placed within buff radii, of course) are the current rulers of the game. There is some hinting that point costs and stat lines might be adjusted soon, in order to level the playing field somewhat, but as it currently stands, IG gun lines and swarms of small tyrannids are currently featured prominently in the meta. Along with the eldar (sorry, aeldar now, more copyrightable), due to some interesting unit costs. Space Marines of all kinds are among the weakest, if not THE weakest. Nearly everything is overcosted. Plus, the Space Marine Codex came out first, and as such, there is a lot less cleverness and inspiration evident in the rules. It sucks. The only competitive Space Marines in tournaments are Blood Angels. In local tournaments, if it isn't too competitive a scene, Ultramarines are doing okay, but only because they can field their own primarch. Black Templars got the weakest ruleset of all, and unlike certain founding Chapters, we're unlikely to get our own codex.

This is all to say that we could really use some effective anti-infantry. Something to put out a lot of dakka. The intended role of the Thunderfire Cannon (and the Whirlwind, for that matter) are appreciated. Unfortunately, neither are currently particularly effective in the specific.

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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by Woodclaw » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:36 am

The thunderfire cannon always felt like an attempt to bring back the old tarantulas turrets, which I don't think were ever popular among Space Marines' players.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by Jabroniville » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:48 am

"First Book Is The Worst" is an ongoing problem with Warhammer to this day- it CONSTANTLY happens. My Orc army in Fantasy got hooped by it many years ago, as they came out with a pretty okay book, but then every subsequent rulebook added more and more fancy stuff and "things that break the rules", leaving Orcs to be in a very tough spot. Until someone utilized the "Hordes of Night Goblins with Maxed Out Fanatics" idea that let them terrorize even the good armies.

Ogre Kingdoms were hooped for a STAGGERING amount of time, thanks to coming out late in one edition, then being screwed by "Rank Size" rules in the next edition (so you needed five models to make a rank, when before Ogres could do it with three)- they had to wait a WHOLE OTHER EDITION to become competitive... at which point they over-corrected and made them the best army by a ways, owing to not only fixing that rule, but giving them stuff that could shatter other armies (notably, "Monstrous Cavalry" became the dominant force in 8th Edition, as they had shiny new models they wanted everyone to buy, thus the rules reflected the "You MUST take this!" nature of the unit).

Basically, you really, really want to come out in the middle part of the edition. The early books are too pedestrian, boring and fail the "New Meta", while the later books tend to be built for the NEXT edition, but inevitably get screwed by something that wasn't considered (Beastmen's Centigors are a notorious example of this, being made into pricey Cavalry-type units, right before 8th Edition nuked Cavalry and reduced the cost of all those units, only months after the Beastmen book came out).

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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:34 pm

My current armies are Dark Angels and Ironjawz, both of whom got hit hard with the “First Book, Worst Book” curse. Yeah, technically, they’re like the third or fourth book for their respective games, but they’re still written with the early into an edition ‘keep things simple’ mindset... and unlikely to see significant updates for years.

I’ve long since stopped worrying about chasing the meta or winning tournaments. I collect the units I want to collect because I think they look neat or fun to play. If I win more games than I lose, I consider it a successful game night.

Having said that, I also find that if you don’t chase the meta and just build a well-balanced army that has a solid mix of “anti-small stuff” and “anti-big stuff” and finds a happy balance between defense and aggression, you’ll win more than lose in casual games. Especially if you build one army list and then play it constantly and consistently. Practice makes perfect, after all.

I play Age of Sigmar a lot more than WH40k these days (my eldest daughter convinced me to buy her some Sylvaneth and Wood Elves last year, so we play maybe once a month). I’ve been using the same basic 2,000 point Ironjawz list for the whole time. Ain’t nothing fancy, but I have an excellent grasp for what each unit is capable of and what I can risk having them do.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by BriarThrone » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:46 pm

The game is, from what I understand, "better" about updating things these days. The Internet allows for more of a "living game" sort of approach. Unfortunately, the updates are pretty infrequent and conservative, and there's not much that's happened to alleviate the woes of Space Marines.

I'm hoping that the online list-building tools allow for some better updating.

I am much more of a painter-collector than I am a player, let alone a competitive player. I love Space Marines, so I buy and build Space Marines. I also like the Thousand Sons and Orks. And now the Knights are coming out. Plus, I'm hearing the call of the awesome models of Age of Sigmar...

Yeah, really hope I get the store manager job. I could really use the discount.

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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by catsi563 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:41 pm

to this day one of the most broken 40k armies to me is the steel rain space marine army. all drops pods filled with stripped down space marine squads and a terminator unit and a dreadnaught or 2.

Deep strike the entire force targeting landing near the enemy army if you land on them do damage, as the squad exits they shoot. if they do enough morale damage to break the units the uni9ts cant rally because th GOD DAMMNED drop pods count as enemy units and so no rally for the broken units. Lost a FLGS tournament match to that BAF nonsense.

still annoys me to this day :x
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:53 pm

They nuked that option from orbit with the 7th Edition ruleset, which mandates that you have at least some units that start on the table... Which was a real kick in the teeth for my Deathwing come 8th Edition when the new codex removed the special rule that allowed them to work around that general rule.
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Re: Warhammer 40,000 (Thunderfire Cannon)

Post by BriarThrone » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:01 am

catsi563 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:41 pm
to this day one of the most broken 40k armies to me is the steel rain space marine army. all drops pods filled with stripped down space marine squads and a terminator unit and a dreadnaught or 2.

Deep strike the entire force targeting landing near the enemy army if you land on them do damage, as the squad exits they shoot. if they do enough morale damage to break the units the uni9ts cant rally because th GOD DAMMNED drop pods count as enemy units and so no rally for the broken units. Lost a FLGS tournament match to that BAF nonsense.

still annoys me to this day :x
Drop pods are so overpriced that you don't even see them in casual games these days.

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