Jab’s Builds (Alien & Predator! Kratos! The Exiles! Blink!)

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:31 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:54 am
Tasers are not “non-lethal” and any law enforcement officer, military serviceman, or armed security personnel who should be so unfortunate as to call them such within earshot of me will regret it. They are less-lethal weapons.
There was a HUGE to-do in Canada after some airport cops in Vancouver tackled an angry Polish guy to the ground and zapped him- the guy (who was frustrated because he couldn't speak ANY English and couldn't find any help, and started screaming at everyone) ended up dying, setting off a big firestorm. Not sure how much of that hit the States, but it made a lot of cops here "Taser-Shy", unwilling to even get the training to use them, just in case a guy died.

Another guy in Edmonton died in police custody shortly after being tased, too- this was an "excited delirium" situation, where the guy fought off a dozen cops at once, got tased repeatedly, and then just collapsed like a ton of bricks as soon as he settled down.

I got to see a clip of my buddy get tased as part of his training- you really saw every muscle (especially the calves, since all the trainees were wearing shorts) seize up. If you're in really poor shape, that can kill you as well.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (THUNDRA!!!! Swords! Katanas! Nunchucks! Axes!)

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:32 am

Spectrum wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:35 pm
Kung fu was my exercise of choice back in highschool. A pretty good exercise for a fluffy kid without many social skills. The sifu really helped me develop into a decent-ish human being. Went off to college and things dropped by the wayside.

Decades later, start back with a direct descendant school. Lots of fun going back and working through the muscle memories with small stylistic differences here and there.

Like.. learning the nunchucks early on. My goodness, I hated that weapon. It seemed like no matter how much I tried to add padding, I'd find a way around it. Sparring helmet, steel cup, full sleeves.. the damn thing kept hitting me. Didn't help that rolls were involved (good way to get dizzy), or passes between the legs. Thinking more on it, wonder if I can add some of my kidney issues to smacking myself with them.. repeatedly.. at speed and force. Frrrrk.

On top of that, let my brain get in the way. Yes, I realize that my personal best chance is to minimize any chance of getting into a fight. Still.. I can find a long stick, a shorter stick and might be able to thwack someone with them enough to convince them that I'm not worth it. My chances of finding two smaller sticks connected by a chain are.. yeah, don't think so. In any case, I realize that I'm in for a pummelling and some nice hefty medical bills.

I did think that it was interesting on why different styles hold the nunchucks differently. If I'm remembering correctly, the higher you hold the bar, the bigger the tradeoff between control and force. Can get a nice thump in if you hold it from the back, if you manage to hit... and vice versa.

While all students had to go through the same series of (seven?) weapons- once you hit the black belts, a few more interesting weapons came in. Lots of people went with various spears. One or two went with canes or umbrellas. One young guy decided to go with the meteor hammer. Fun watching him alternate between yoyo tricks (Polynesian weapon?) to striking out at it with nasty speed and accuracy.

Huh, might need to look around again and see if there are any kata oriented schools that can fit into my work schedule.
Funny how the Nunchucks showed up in KUNG FU training- like I said, there was no "kata" for it in Okinawa (the apparent origin of the things). Was this just "Bruce Lee Influence" seeping through?

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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:15 am

Artillerymen in the real world have a fun trick* where they will adjust the powder charge and angle of their shells, launching some at higher angels and velocities than others... Which will cause three, four, or maybe even five shells fired from the same gun to all land at essentially the exact same moment. This gets really entertaining** if an entire battery does the same trick.

Artillerymen are are what happens when an aspiring Mad Scientist studies mathematics instead of chemistry.

* "Fun" only applies if you are not downrange from them, if you are down range it is "Not Fun."
** Ditto
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catsi563
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by catsi563 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:18 am

Most likely it was. Nunchaku were primarily a karate influenced weapon given their Okinawan origins along with Shotokan Karate. And yes im talking real Shotokan not ken and ryus fantasy version.

The Bruce Lee Influence was through his advancemnt of Jeet Kun Do which eschews styles and forms and traditions for a more effective form of martial arts thats designed to win.
call them such within earshot of me will regret it. They are less-lethal weapons.
There was a HUGE to-do in Canada after some airport cops in Vancouver tackled an angry Polish guy to the ground and zapped him- the guy (who was frustrated because he couldn't speak ANY English and couldn't find any help, and started screaming at everyone) ended up dying, setting off a big firestorm. Not sure how much of that hit the States, but it made a lot of cops here "Taser-Shy", unwilling to even get the training to use them, just in case a guy died.
We did have and because some morons cops cant help themselves still have that issue. They had a couple people die from the classic taser injuries and the ACLU launched a major law suit when it was found not that the taser was the issue but that the cops were basically using them as torture devices. instead of keeping the guy down long enough to comply they were jamming the trigger and basically electrocuting people while shouting stop moving and comply which of course you cant do when your muscles are locked up and your violently twitching everywhere.

it got so bad that several jurisdictions banned them entirely. theres still some debate out there whether this was done intentionally with the NRAs backing to force Police to use firearms more often but no real further evidence of that ever came up. Whole issue for the most part went away as better rules and training were put in place right up until some jackoff in Philly tasered a guy who was complying with the officers on tape.

So now the officers facing criminal charges.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:54 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:15 am
Artillerymen in the real world have a fun trick* where they will adjust the powder charge and angle of their shells, launching some at higher angels and velocities than others... Which will cause three, four, or maybe even five shells fired from the same gun to all land at essentially the exact same moment. This gets really entertaining** if an entire battery does the same trick.

Artillerymen are are what happens when an aspiring Mad Scientist studies mathematics instead of chemistry.

* "Fun" only applies if you are not downrange from them, if you are down range it is "Not Fun."
** Ditto
What was the line? "Artillery is the Empress of the Battlefield" or something? Generals basically understand that this was the way to win. Weaker armies had to resort to guerilla tactics to even compete.

Jabroniville
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Shields

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:59 am

Image

SHIELDS:

-Shields, like Armor, went under various styles over the years. Most of them are simple in design and are mainly there to add to one's Defenses. They can be really damn annoying to use for stats, though, as they mess with said Defenses and alter the potential Power Level. When I did my set of Fantasy Builds, I always had to mix around and be careful how much FIGHTING you gave someone. Shields have been typically made out of leather, wood, various metals and stuff. You can add Defenses based off of how tough the Shield is. There are also Tower Shields, but those are basically mobile objects used for Cover, based off of their size- I wouldn't want to use something that heavy in a real fight.

Shield Stats: Enhanced Dodge & Parry 1-3 --- (1-6 Equipment Points)
Positives & Negatives:
- You need a free hand to use one. This means that double-handed weapons like Broadswords, War Hammers & large Axes are more difficult to use.
- Axes or Javelins can easily become stuck in a wooden shield, both hampering your Defenses and your ability to Attack unless you discard the Shield.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:14 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:54 am
What was the line? "Artillery is the Empress of the Battlefield" or something? Generals basically understand that this was the way to win. Weaker armies had to resort to guerilla tactics to even compete.
Artillery is the "king of the battlefield," and Infantry is the "queen of the battlefield." It's a Chess reference and the metaphor dates back to at least the Napoleonic Wars although I've never been able to track down a definitive source.

“Ultima Ratio Regum.” –Louis XIV

“Artillery adds dignity, to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl.” – Frederick the Great

“God fights on the side with the best artillery.” - Napoleon Bonaparte

“For you all love the screw-guns — the screw-guns they all love you!
So when we call round with a few guns, o' course you will know what to do — hoo! hoo!
Just send in your Chief an' surrender — it's worse if you fights or you runs:
You can go where you please, you can skid up the trees, but you don't get away from the guns!"
-Rudyard Kipling, Screw-Guns

“If, after the battle is over, your infantry don’t like you, you are a poor artilleryman.” – Captain Henry Reilly

“The artillery is a god of modern war.”- Joseph Stalin
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (THUNDRA!!!! Swords! Katanas! Nunchucks! Axes!)

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:14 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:11 pm
Oh god, shields... The only thing Hollywood screws up more than swordfighting is how shields are used.
How so? I haven't done much research on the subject.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (THUNDRA!!!! Swords! Katanas! Nunchucks! Axes!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:31 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:14 am
Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:11 pm
Oh god, shields... The only thing Hollywood screws up more than swordfighting is how shields are used.
How so? I haven't done much research on the subject.
The most common error is that they just plain don't use them. They'll carry them, maybe block an arrow or two, and then when they get into melee they seem to forget they exist. Skallagrim has a video focusing on poor shield use in video games but much of it applies to film too.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (THUNDRA!!!! Swords! Katanas! Nunchucks! Axes!)

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:36 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:31 am
Jabroniville wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:14 am
Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:11 pm
Oh god, shields... The only thing Hollywood screws up more than swordfighting is how shields are used.
How so? I haven't done much research on the subject.
The most common error is that they just plain don't use them. They'll carry them, maybe block an arrow or two, and then when they get into melee they seem to forget they exist. Skallagrim has a video focusing on poor shield use in video games but much of it applies to film too.
Oh yeah, there's that. It is kinda funny that barely-armored heroes usually tear around the battlefield using only their melee weapons, and rarely even in ranks.

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Armor

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:39 am

Image
ImageImageImage

Henry VIII's infamous "Cock Armor".

ARMOR:

-Armor (as a Canadian, I can use either spelling- I like the American version these days) was common as soon as people could make the stuff, and has several different "makes" over the years. Even today, soldiers and police officers often wear Kevlar for protection against bullets. For centuries, Heavy Cavalry (heavily-armored horsemen) were the dominant "Hammer" unit of militaries throughout the world. More and more advanced kinds of Armors were built for generations, eventually culminating with knights armored from head to toe with nigh-invulnerable layered, curved metals (to better deflect sword-blows) over top of scale or chainmail. Things had basically accelerated to this point... and then someone came up with the Crossbow.

Use of Crossbows and Rifles as military weapons basically neutralized the power of the armored Knight. See, even the GREATEST Armor could be easily punched through by someone's crossbow, and since the weapons were eventually cheap-ish and common, Knights were defenseless. Various countries thought about banning the weapons, since it made these elite soldiers (usually the richest of the rich landlords, who'd trained for YEARS to perfect their fighting style) completely redundant... but anyone trying to ban Crossbows & Guns would've soon been taking over by the next country who didn't- so eventually, everyone just used guns instead of Knights.

Types of Armor:
-There are tons of different Armor types, with each nation using their own makes and types. Like the Firearms, rather than build each individual one separately, I'll simply say what they are, and give a more generic "Points-Buy" thing to build from. Generally speaking, Heavy Cavalry use the best.

Armor starts at Leather (even a Leather Jacket can help a bit against slashing weapons), and moves to Chainmail & Scale Mail (Chainmail is actually really effective- a friend once whacked me with a large stick while I was draping a piece of chainmail over my arm, and I barely felt it), and finally Full Plate Mail.

Armor Stats: Protection 1-6 (Extras: Impervious 1-7) (1-13 Equipment Points)
Kevlar Stats: Protection 2 (Flaws: Limited to Ballistic Damage)
Maximum Toughness Score: 8

Positives & Negatives:
+ Intimidation Factor: Everyone knows the Heavy Cavalry are the elites, and heavily-armored troops draw an inordinate amount of tactical focus.
+ Sufficient Imperviousness basically renders a Knight immune to the attacks of the lower classes.

- Heavy. Many types of Armor are VERY heavy, and often require assistance to get in and out of.
- Hard to use untrained- unless you've worn Armor before, it can very easily slow you down physically, and even make you a worse fighter and easier to hit. Only a lot of training can let someone wear Full Plate and fight as normal.
- Power Loss: (vs) Modern Weapons. Anything equal to a Crossbow or higher (like a Gun) will completely bypass medieval-style Armor, leaving it's maximum Toughness Bonus of +2 for even Full Plate.
- Power Loss (vs) Effective Weapons. Some weapons are designed purely to damage heavy Armor- Axes are notorious for this. Axe attacks will give the Armor -2 Toughness to opposing saves against damage.

-So the various types of Armor can give a guy a lot of extra toughness, but only to a reasonable amount (+8 seems like the best you should get- even a tough guy with STAMINA 4 shouldn't be able to hit +10 Toughness, which is better than most superhumans). And while Knights and stuff are great, even the best Full Plate will only do so much to help you against a bullethole. The most Impervious Armor can easily withstand a ST 2 guy's +2 weapon unless the dude Power Attacks, too- a very dangerous thing in a medieval fight.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by drkrash » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:47 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:29 am
The CW’s Arrow is especially annoying with their ‘Ollie doesn’t kill people anymore and doesn’t approve of vigilantes who do.’

Dude, even ignoring the fact that you were literally a serial killer for most of the first season, you’re still shooting people with a #125+ draw weight bow, at point blank, using broadheads. Even if your superhero-level marksmanship lets you avoid any vital organs and the bad guy avoids bleeding out and receives expert medical attention... You’re still looking at potentially major nerve damage.

Also, Spartan is standing right next to you with a Glock 17 in hand and Wild Dog is spraying wildly with his dual full-auto Beretta 93F... So, y’know, maybe send Huntress an apology note.
Can't speak to the Ollie critique, but I swore that it was mentioned at some point that the gun-users were using some form of "less lethal" ammo. Or maybe that's just been my headcanon all along.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by Ken » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:04 pm

Whenever I've seen pictures or statues of Bohemian general Jan Žižka, I couldn't help but notice that...

Image

...the Czech is in the mail.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:07 pm

I vaguely remember them hand-waving it with a line or two of dialogue that established Diggle was using “darts,” plus he was established early and consistently as a super-heroic marksman on par with Ollie so I can buy that he “shoots to wound.”

But there’s still all the other archers on the team, the lightning bolt shooting T-Spheres, the steel batons, the swords, and Rene’s fully automatic pistols!

But, hey, comic book logic.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Exotic Weapons! Bows! Guns!)

Post by Ares » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:08 pm

Armor can be funny sometimes. Traditional plate armor is great for stopping swords and blades, but sucks against modern firearms. Meanwhile kevlar is great against bullets, but lousy against blades.

Though it is worth noting that originally, traditional armor could be made to be bullet proof. Supposedly the term came from a smith test firing a gun on a new suit to see if the round could penetrate. Most early guns weren't that great. But when they really dialed in how to get more power/velocity out of guns, plate armor couldn't keep up.

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