Echoes of the Multiverse

Jabroniville wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:48 am Huh- sounds interesting. I like the idea of a deluded race of arrogant beings. That really does sound like something cats would be if they were sentient, LOL.

Stormbringer sounds a lot like Dane Whitman's Ebony Blade.

It's very likely that the ebony blade was modelled after the Stormbringer (or one of the other iteractions of it throughout Moorcock's work).

As for the Melniboneanes ... they had some definite cat-like elements to them.

Batgirl III wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:08 am “Dreamkiller” really is an awesome name for a super-villain though, I gotta give him that.

My youngest son came up with a similar supervillain idea with the name "Knifemare" when he was 7. I totally stole that to use in my game.

Woodclaw wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 9:16 am

Jabroniville wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:48 am Huh- sounds interesting. I like the idea of a deluded race of arrogant beings. That really does sound like something cats would be if they were sentient, LOL.

Stormbringer sounds a lot like Dane Whitman's Ebony Blade.

It's very likely that the ebony blade was modelled after the Stormbringer (or one of the other iteractions of it throughout Moorcock's work).

see also Adam Warlock's every-hungry Soul Stone

yeah see also....KREUZ?!

Scots Dragon wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:39 am

Jabroniville wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 5:54 am I think any commentary on Drizzt and whoever Elric is (god, I fail at Fantasy & Sci-Fi SO HARD) counts as on-topic.

*cracks knuckles*

Okay then.

Elric of Melniboné, created by Michael Moorcock, is pretty much the gold standard for the cursed anti-hero in sword and sorcery fantasy and exists arguably as the second-largest icon of that subgenre next to Conan himself. Oddly enough he was designed from the ground up as the anti-Conan, and does actually exist as something of an inversion of the traditional conventions associated with the genre. Or at least the conventions that were associated with the genre back in the 1960s. A good five decades of development and a rippling effect on the rest of the genre have, sadly, diminished some of the uniqueness that Elric had.

In most ways, Elric zigs in pretty much every area that Conan zags. Rather than being a physical specimen he's a sickly and gaunt albino kept alive only through extensive alchemical medication at first, and later the gifts of his magic sword. If deprived of these he would become too physically ill to do so much as move, and would likely perish within a few days. Where Conan is more known for his travel-savvy and cunning, Elric is a scholar and a philosopher who grew up largely sequestered in his father's library. Instead of being distrustful of magic and sorcery and the evils it can bring, Elric is more than willing to dabble in the arts of sorcery for his own personal gain and power, and has in fact sworn long-term service to Arioch, one of the Lords of Chaos.

He's the ruler of the stagnant and dying Empire of Melniboné. The peoples of Melniboné are, effectively, much like elves in that they exist as a sort of 'superior' type to humans, though there's little evidence of extended lifespans and such. Instead their superiority is mostly self-delusion, and they lack any sort of morality or conscience when compared to humans, being likened more to predatory cats.

And of course there is Elric's magical sword, Stormbringer. One of a set of runeblades, the black sword is in truth the assumed form of a powerful demon, and it not only feasts upon the souls of those that it slays but must be kept regularly fed otherwise it attempts to take control of Elric itself. Upon slaying a given foe, the sword will transfer the strength of its victim to Elric himself, augmenting his typically diminished physical strength.

I've read a few Elric stories, both in printed word and comics form, when I was much more into "high-fantasy" genre, and was intrigued by the whole "Eternal Champion" concept. For those not familiar with Moorcock's work, he essentially tied many/most of his protagonists together in an author-multiverse, with the idea being a war between Law and Chaos spanning multiple realities, and an entity called "The Balance" selecting or creating great warriors to prevent either side from dominating all the planes of existence. ALL these heroes are aspects of the same Eternal Champion, though they are not reincarnations or precise analogues of each other. Most are NOT aware of their status, though at least two are "cursed" with such self-awareness (both choose the name Erekose, confusingly enough), though only one (the John Daker version of Erekose) features in stand-alone novels (appearing in different worlds each time, taking the place of native heroes who failed in their missions). Elric was the only Moorcock character widely known, and the most popular by far (others include Corum, Dorian Hawkmoon, Jeremy Cornelius, Oswald Bastable, and the aforementioned Erekose). There is also an Eternal Traitor (a champion who betrayed the Balance and serves Chaos) Gaynor the Damned, who inspired my Rogues Gallery villain The Oblivion Knight.

I was curious enough about the history behind Elric (who is an anti-villain at worst/anti-hero at best) and his inspirations to do some reading, and yes, as ScotsDragon mentioned, the character is more or less an inversion of Conan and similar characters. The late 1960s/early 1970s saw a LOT of "dark fantasy" archetypes arise, likely due to the turbulence of the era. Karl Von Wagner's Kane the Accursed was earlier even than Elric or Erekose (one of Moorcock's earliest books), and was likely inspired by the Finnish myth of Kullervo and other "doomed" heroes of legend. The best comic book example is Starlin's version of Adam Strange, with the Soul Gem being basically swiped from the Stormbringer concept. Cool stuff, though pretty dated now, because there have been SO many versions and variations done by other writers. Sort of like the "Twilight Zone/O. Henry" ironic-twist endings that are now cliches, but weren't when originally written decades ago.

All my best!

greycrusader wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 4:06 pm I was curious enough about the history behind Elric (who is an anti-villain at worst/anti-hero at best) and his inspirations to do some reading, and yes, as ScotsDragon mentioned, the character is more or less an inversion of Conan and similar characters. The late 1960s/early 1970s saw a LOT of "dark fantasy" archetypes arise, likely due to the turbulence of the era. Karl Von Wagner's Kane the Accursed was earlier even than Elric or Erekose (one of Moorcock's earliest books), and was likely inspired by the Finnish myth of Kullervo and other "doomed" heroes of legend. The best comic book example is Starlin's version of Adam Strange, with the Soul Gem being basically swiped from the Stormbringer concept. Cool stuff, though pretty dated now, because there have been SO many versions and variations done by other writers. Sort of like the "Twilight Zone/O. Henry" ironic-twist endings that are now cliches, but weren't when originally written decades ago.

All my best!

You're a bit off on your timeline. Elric first appeared in the early 60s, well ahead of Kane in the 70s. Moorcock did some epic world-building in scope and depth that is about the equal of Tolkein's and Howard's works. Elric is one of my favorite characters of all time and I think it's a shame he hasn't gotten nearly the attention that some others have.

Jabroniville wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:48 am Huh- sounds interesting. I like the idea of a deluded race of arrogant beings. That really does sound like something cats would be if they were sentient, LOL.

Hey we resemble that remark!!

As the Pugmire/Monarchies of Mau RPG setting puts it, ascended dogs aim to be "a good dog" according to the ancient Code of Man, while the ascended cats want to be "the best cat" XD

If you ever want to know just how big an impact Michael Moorcock has had on the fantasy and sci-fi genres, let me show you Exhibit One:



Yeah, that’s right, Moorcock invented the eight-arrowed Symbol of Chaos that has gone on to be used by Warhammer, D&D, Shadowrun, and ten bajillion other RPGs. Not to mention countless Heavy Metal bands, tattoo shops, biker gangs, and (hand to god) at least one pirate ship operating in the Strait of Malacca circa 2006.

As far as “fantasy literary device that has crossed into pop culture consciousness” the Symbol of Chaos is up there with Cthulhu and Excalibur.

Speaking of Excalibur, I’d say Dane Whitman’s sword is definitely a “descendant” of Elric’s Stormbringer with a dash of King Arthur’s Clarent and Excalibur mixed in (and a bit of Roland’s Durendal).

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 2:33 pm yeah see also....KREUZ?!

I can't believe he actually commented here either.....

danelsan wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 5:47 pm As the Pugmire/Monarchies of Mau RPG setting puts it, ascended dogs aim to be "a good dog" according to the ancient Code of Man, while the ascended cats want to be "the best cat" XD

Hail,brother Dog! (plays Pugmire theme songhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SORXgMPeOq0 )

Shock wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 4:38 pm You're a bit off on your timeline. Elric first appeared in the early 60s, well ahead of Kane in the 70s. Moorcock did some epic world-building in scope and depth that is about the equal of Tolkein's and Howard's works. Elric is one of my favorite characters of all time and I think it's a shame he hasn't gotten nearly the attention that some others have.

Batgirl III wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:03 pm Yeah, that’s right, Moorcock invented the eight-arrowed Symbol of Chaos that has gone on to be used by Warhammer, D&D, Shadowrun, and ten bajillion other RPGs. Not to mention countless Heavy Metal bands, tattoo shops, biker gangs, and (hand to god) at least one pirate ship operating in the Strait of Malacca circa 2006.

Properly summarising the sheer level of influence Michael Moorcock has had on the fantasy genre could be the subject of its own series of essays, and it stretches even to really recent works. The Elder Scrolls is an especially notable example, given that its lore draws heavily upon a lot of the weirder elements of Moorcock's multiverse mythos, and the protagonist of the first game was even called the Eternal Champion.

It really is a damn shame that Moorcock hasn't gotten that much attention as a writer.

MacynSnow wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:40 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 2:33 pm yeah see also....KREUZ?!

I can't believe he actually commented here either.....

comment nothing, I actually introduced/summed up the witches 5 earlier (well, reposted a summary made by a guy I know)

Yeah, Kreuz has 24 posts, pretty much all in my thread. He tends to be quiet, but he makes his present felt from time to time .

Coolio...so,back to the Marvel '93 annual idiots(Personally,i liked the DC '93 annuals better,as they at least tried to have a storyline with it,but had worst character concepts overall....).