Jab’s Builds (Cassandra! Varian! Wreck-It Ralph! Turbo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Xanatos! Owen! Coldstone! Demona! Thailog! Macbeth!)

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:02 pm

"Eye of the Beholder": Better known as "The Belle Dress Episode", but it holds up equally well on it's own, with great character moments from Xanatos, and romance abounds. He gets engaged to Fox, but his gift (The Eye of Odin) turns her crazy and into a giant Werefox, a form that will slowly kill her. In desperation, Mister Back-Up Plan has nothing, and basically has to beg Goliath for help, confessing his weakness. Goliath gets the all-time great comeback line of "Only YOU would regard LOVE as a weakness..." The Trio appreciates being able to walk outside on Halloween, and Goliath & Elisa have a romantic moment strolling arm-in-arm (with the FRICKING DRESS OH MY G--- no, I shall restrain myself). It says something that this episode is considered legendary for it's Fanservice when it's really just the female lead dressing like Belle (herself not exactly a daring dresser), showing a tiny bit of cleavage & shoulder, but the part where she rips the dress off to show some thigh-high stockings with a gun-holster is pretty epic (still, not much skin shown). Elisa was so consistently-clad in her jeans, shirt & jacket combo that anything different looks exceptionally hot without coming across as sleazy. Plus they draw her as so genuinely attractive all the time that her showing ANYTHING is absurdly great. Watching these in order, this episode is the one where we can definitely put Gargoyles into the rare company of "Greatest Cartoons of All Time"- the dialogue, animation and everything is just perfect. The show can barely contain how awesome it is at this point.

"Vows": "Gargoyles Time Travel Syndrome" rears it's head for the first time, combining with "Gargoyles Backstory Syndrome" to reveal layers upon layers of people's origins and backstories. Xanatos & Fox get married, and drag Goliath, Demona & Xanatos' dad into the past to meet Young Goliath & Demona, and get The Illuminati to deliver some pricey coins to Xanatos in the future, to assure that he will be rich "as a self-made man". It still bothers me as to how he got the money in the FIRST PLACE if he'd never gotten the Phoenix Gate the first "step" around, but then, Time Travel stories are always bad for that. It IS pretty impressive to have David & Sirtis accurately play Goliath & Demona at younger ages by slightly modifying their voices. There's some nice character work here, too, as Xanatos' genuine arrogance plays off of his dad's disgust at how much his son cares for money, and how little respect he has for anything else.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Xanatos! Owen! Coldstone! Demona! Thailog! Macbeth!)

Post by catsi563 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:48 pm

If I recall correctly Paradox theory covers that its the chicken and the egg dilemma. But basically it really comes down to the coins and letters he received basically precipitated the entire trip in the first place thus assuring hed always receive those coins and make a fortune.

Yeah time travels a headache :P
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Odin

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:25 pm

Image

ODIN
Played By:
W. Morgan Sheppard
Role: One-Off Antagonist, Trickster
PL 10 (254)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (History) 8 (+11)
Expertise (Magic) 8 (+11)
Insight 2 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 3 (+8)
Stealth 5 (+5)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 10, Ritualist, Startle

Powers:
"Child of Oberon" Immunity 4 (Aging, Disease, Poison, Drowning) [4]
Senses 2 (Magic Awareness- Acute) [2]
Morph 4 (Any Form) (Quirks: Always Missing the Right Eye) [19]

"God of the North" Environment 10 (Visibility 2, Cold 2, Impede Movement 2) [60]
Shapeshift 6 [48]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +10, Fortitude +10, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Wisdom & Power)- Odin seeks to regain the Eye Of Odin (which was his own eye, transformed into a magical artifact).
Reputation (Douchebag)- Odin confesses to being a bit out of practice when dealing with mortals, so his manner is brusque and demanding.

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 133 / Defenses: 12 (254)

-Odin was one of many One-Off Antagonists of the "World Tour" era, showing up in Norway to demand the Eye of Odin back from Goliath, who'd been keeping it. Seeing as the Eye was a deadly magical artifact (Goliath was trying to ensure than nobody else could use it for evil, as Fox and the Archmage had), and Odin was being a giant dick about it, all demand-y and stuff, Goliath was like "piss off, yo". This turned into a fight, and finally Goliath slapped the Eye onto HIMSELF, transforming into a heavy-duty powerhouse that whupped on Odin and saved the day.

-Unfortunately, the Eye has a tendency to alter people greatly, exaggerating their characteristics. So while Fox & the Archmage went further towards evil, Goliath became absurdly protective, as his nature is to guard others. However, this soon shifted into him trapping his own friends in a cave so that nobody else could possibly harm them. Eventually, Goliath saw the error in his scheme, and willingly gave the eye back to its original owner.

-Odin is rather powerful, but not so strong that Goliath and the others can't beat him back more than once- never mind when Goliath is using the eye. He's expensive thanks to stacking Shapeshift on top of a far-reaching Environment power (he sets off a MASSIVE blizzard that coats a solid chunk of Norway).

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Xanatos! Owen! Coldstone! Demona! Thailog! Macbeth!)

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:35 pm

"City of Stone": One of the BIGGEST mega-arcs of the series, which explains the huge backstory of Demona & Macbeth, as they meet up, ally, and change the course of Scottish history. It's brilliantly tragic, as everything is born of Demona's character flaws, and so many awful things happen as a result. I love that when Xanatos is alone in a city of frozen people, he still can't resist making little jokes to himself. THERE'S NOBODY THERE TO HEAR HIM BE SNARKY. Such a good character moment. The past storyline starts right out with Macbeth's father's best pal Bodhe being a weenie when the going gets tough and Findlaech dies. I enjoyed that character- usually The Advisor/Vizier character is a sinister traitor or just plain rude- here he's an overly-cautious weakling who always begs for peace instead of honorable fighting. On some points, he's actually a bit right, which I like- it's not like he's being a wussy just to be a wuss. But still, Bodhe sucks.

I love when Brooklyn gets all interrupt-y and Hudson's blind pal Robbins chuckles "Your friend is impatient!", and Hudson responds "Aye- the curse of youth." It's awesome when two wise old dudes just get to talking. Watching Demona gleefully walk through Manhattan smashing people to pieces with her mace and shoot their arms off is intensely disturbing. More stuff in the past reveals that Demona wasn't entirely bad after the betrayal at Wyvern- she saves Young Macbeth's life at great penalty to herself. I love the Weird Sisters and their description of the nature of vengeance- "vengeance begets nothing, but a vicious cycle of further vengeance." Gillecomgain (himself a real historical figure, and the true father of Macbeth's "son" as well) is quite the bad-ass, beating Macbeth easily, and almost finishing Demona. But his Jim Cummings-voiced ass goes flying off the castle in sick parallel to Findlaec.

Hee- some lady reveals that everyone's been turned to stone, and nobody believes her, despite everyone missing out on the previous night entirely. Past-Duncan proves to be a royal (literally) dick, betraying Macbeth even after the latter saves his life. Dang, Gruoch (least... attractive... name... ever) turned out pretty smokin'. Duncan gets a pretty horrific end given that this is a cartoon- his eyes go out and he gets set on fire. Demona's Clan seems to get exponentially bigger over time- only four are seen in a cave, five are up in the fight against Duncan, and then upwards of TWENTY silhouettes are seen against the third Hunter. Some poor wording and an overhearing Gargoyle ends up destroying Macbeth in future times (well, that and not killing a young child when he had the chance)- Weisman notes that for all we (and Demona) know, Macbeth was gonna shout at Bodhe for suggesting they betray the Gargoyles- instead, he says they have to consider all their options.

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The Hunters

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 am

Image
Image
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Image

THE HUNTERS (Jon, Jason & Robyn Canmore) 
Played By:
Alan Cumming, Diedrich Bader & Sheena Easton
Role: Honouring-The-Father Children, Genocidal Killers
PL 9 (164)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 6 (+9)
Deception 7 (+11)
Expertise (History) 4 (+8)
Expertise (Science) 3 (+7)
Expertise (Soldier) 5 (+9)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 1 (+5)
Investigation 4 (+8)
Perception 3 (+6)
Persuasion 1 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Technology 5 (+9)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Benefit 2 (Wealth), Equipment 12 (Assorted Gear, Uber-Ship), Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Guns), Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 8

Powers:
"Uber-Armour" (Flaws: Removable) [25]
Enhanced Strength 5 (10)
Protection 6 (Extras: Impervious 5) (11)
Flight 5 (60 mph) (10)
-- (31 points)

Equipment:
"Body Armour" Protection +2 (2)
"Guns" Blast 6 (12) -- (13)
  • AE: "Hammer" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical, Penetrating 5) (9)
Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Hammer +12 (+6 Damage, DC 22)
Guns +12 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +4 (+6 Armour, +10 Uber-Armour), Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Hunting The Demon)- The Canmores have hunted Demona for a thousand years- Jason was the most obsessive (as the eldest, it was his responsibility after they watched Demona murder their father), while Jon was the most reluctant. They also seek to destroy the entire Gargoyle race.

Total: Abilities: 76 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 26 / Powers: 25 / Defenses: 12 (164)

-The Hunters appeared in the last arc of the main "Gargoyles" series, a trio of good liars who tricked their way into positions of power (Robyn worked for "Dominique Destine", Jon was a reporter, and Jason was a super-handsome cop, voiced by Oswald from  "The Drew Carey Show" before he played Batman) in order to hunt The Demon. They ended up blowing up The Clocktower, revealed the Gargoyles' presence to the entire world, and made them Public Enemy #1... all to satisfy the mad urges of the Canmore Family's legacy. Jon had an issue with wiping out the whole Clan (he realized that only Demona was evil), but was twisted by the others... until he went mad with grief, accidentally shot his own brother through the spine, and went full-on "Demona" with "What have I... what have THEY done?!" He ended up leading the Quarrymen, while Jason was crippled, and Robyn became a mercenary looking for redemption.

-The Hunters are mainly Spy Guys and low-level Macbeth-type fighters, but also used some pretty cool Uber-Armour suits for a bit. Robyn is likely faster but weaker (ST 2, STA 3, FIGHTING 13, AGI 5- Weisman likens her to Batman, but I just ain't seeing her on that level at all), while Jason looks stronger and more competent overall as the leader (Ranged Attack +1, FIGHTING 13), but obviously lost all that due to a bullet.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Demona! Thailog! Macbeth! The Banshee! Odin!)

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:29 am

"High Noon": This is all-star animation here- the best since the Pilot Five-Parter, with all the little flourishes and head-bounces when people talk. This one shows Demona & Macbeth as slaves of the Weird Sisters- I never quite liked how THE VERY NEXT EPISODE showed them doing this- I figured they'd hold off for a bit. Plus, seeing two great villains as mere slaves was disappointing. Demona establishes herself as superior to Brooklyn (same strength, more viciousness), but the old "I feel his pain" leaves her vulnerable to him & Bronx (whose Power Level seems to go up or down based off of what they need- sometimes he's a severe danger to even Demona, at other times any ol' human bad guy can deal with him). Weisman actually discusses his disappointment with parts of this, and I can see it- it's just too many villains for too much of it, and isn't quite as epic as you'd expect a three-way team-up to be. He also complains about Demona's sexpot poses (in front of Elisa, no less) and the fact that the three "Desdemonas" don't have Weird Sister Hair in Coldstone's mind- I guess even the A-team animators screw up once in a while. I like Evil Coldstone going all pervy for the Elisa/Demona catfight (which establishes that Demona SUCKS at fighting in human form).

"Outfoxed": An interesting episode that introduces Fox's daddy, Halcyon Renard, a man obsessed with honor, integrity and being accountable for one's actions. There's some neat moments between Renard & Goliath about Goliath accepting his failures (it was Renard's company that got ripped off a year ago when the Gargoyles were working with Xanatos), but it comes across as rather preachy, and it seems like a weird thing to be obsessed about, this "always accept blame!" thing. I mean, I GET IT, but it's just odd. This one led to some fan complaining about Renard's assistant Preston Vogel looking like a dark-haired version of Owen Burnett. They shoulda known that the show's writing team would plan it a billion episodes in advance that it would be important.

"Revelations": Hahah, I love this one. It totally gave me an appreciation for whacko conspiracy theories and the Illuminati- I was almost kinda sad that the idea's been done before (and is based off of real conspiracy stuff), because it seemed original to Teenage Jab at the time. At least if I rip the idea off for my own stuff, it doesn't seem plagiaristic of any one thing ('course, Weisman admits that this episode freely ripped off an old "Avengers" episode with the "Hotel Cabal"). I never liked how Matt had to basically be all "I'll keep your secret if you do me A FAVOR", but at least he explained it afterwards with his whole plan. And at least Elisa was willing to admit why she hid the Gargoyles from EVERYBODY (even people she trusted). The Hotel itself is like a better, more crazy version of what Arcade throws out in Marvel Comics. I love that I can now recognize the DCAU's "Alfred", Ephram Zimbalist Jr. as Mace Malone.

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Oberon

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:30 am

Image

OBERON
Played By:
Terrance Mann
Role: Huge Fairy
PL 14 (319)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 12 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Deception 6 (+10)
Expertise (Magic) 12 (+18)
Expertise (History) 6 (+10)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 6 (+10)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 2 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Magic) 4 (+12)
Stealth 4 (+4)

Advantages:
Benefit 5 (Lord of Avalon & Oberon's Children), Diehard, Improved Critical (Magic), Languages (Prob'ly a few), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Ritualist, Trance

Powers:
"Lord of the Children of Oberon"
Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]
Regeneration 6 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [7]
Immortality 6 [12]

Shapeshift 6 [48]
Variable 14 [98]

Sample Powers: Growth (Hundreds of Feet Tall- Strength 15-ish, Blasts, Area Blasts, Environment- Hundreds of Feet, Selective Area Paralyze/Freeze, Teleport Self & Others, Summon 8 Minions, Tendril Snare)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Giant Form +10 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Blasts +12 (+12-16 Ranged Damage, DC 27-31)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +12, Fortitude +12, Will +10

Complications:
Vulnerable (Iron)- Pure Iron is fatal to Oberon- just the ringing of a bell made from the substance nearly killed him. He can destroy objects made of iron (like Steel Clan robots), but being touched by them will be painful.
Responsibility (Oberon's Children)- Oberon is responsible for his people, and makes several edicts on them (such as not to interfere with mortal lives). He does not like to be disobeyed.
Quirk (Arrogant)- Like most super-powerful beings, Oberon is pretty cocky, and isn't used to defeat.

Total: Abilities: 96 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 166 / Defenses: 16 (319)

-Oberon was the culmination of the varied stories the show had to feature The Children of Oberon, a race of super-powerful creatures that humanity used to create their myths. Puck (the first seen), Anansi, Odin, Anubis, etc. were all part of his race, and he was the King of them all. With his re-united bride Titania, they came to take back Avalon, before being convinced by those living there that both groups could enjoy it's splendor (Guardian Tom had Oberon dead-to-rights with an iron bell, but refused "to kill a man on his knees", thus earning Oberon's respect and admiration). He and his wife later came to take her grandson Alexander from his parents (Fox, now revealed as Titania's daughter with Halcyon Renard; and our beloved David Xanatos). In the resulting fight, Goliath turned to his arch-foe's defense ("I know the pain of being seperated from my child. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.").

-It was kind of a neat story, despite Mr. All-Powerful here basically being a plot device- the Xanatos/Gargoyle War was over, and it was done through love instead of hate (ie. killing one or the other). Oberon came to ANOTHER understanding thanks to Puck, as well as Fox's newfound Magical Might during an extraordinary circumstance.

-Oberon fundamentally has whichever power you need for a story- he whips out a crazy amount of stuff, like summoning the elements or nature to fight for him, freezing guys as powerful as Odin and the Banshee, growing to Skyscraper-size, Teleporting, etc. He can hit PL 14 for Area Attacks and a Force Field or something, but can still be tired out. If translated to the Marvel Universe or something, he can be seen to have beatable limits, but without pure Iron, you're gonna have a hell of a time in the Garg-verse.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Demona! Thailog! Macbeth! The Banshee! Odin!)

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:27 am

And that does it for my Gargoyles builds! Always a fun set to return to, though I didn't alter the builds too much (with very simplistic powers, there's not much to go on in terms of updates). I can't remember if this was more or less popular than the series I did five years ago- I'll have to go and check and compare :). Looking at it, it's about the same, except 2012 still had Skavenger and Gazman (both of whom disappeared without a trace). And Mike5000us, before he disappeared. For a while, he was quite notorious for "Request-Spamming", but only for the most powerful characters possible- he LOVED seeing high-PL characters statted, occasionally freaking out when he saw them (I still remember his "WOW, GREAT FUCKING JOB ON SAILOR GALAXIA, MAN!"), and then immediately suggesting ANOTHER request. Kreuz once said "we've all learned to ignore him", but he became a lot more tolerable later on by doing his own build thread, I think.

Coming up tomorrow, I'll post a couple of random builds, then get started with OVERWATCH, thanks to the help of L-Train, Woodclaw and Kreuzritter, who were telling me some of the basics of the game mechanics.

Some interesting bits from the 2012 Gargoyles-set:
catsi563 wrote:You know what? An Interesting thing about Demona is like Magneto before her I cant actually find it in me to call her evil persay. Did she do evil things? almost certianly City of Stone was a lot of nastiness, as was her wish for all the humans to be gone.

But if you look as her past you see this fearsome warrior who was in many ways actualy scared more often, and this fear drove her to hate. But worse like Magneto before her she had proof of the humans misdeeds. the destruction of her clan was an act of casual brutality, the loss fo the others to the hunter, the betrayal of macbeth a misunderstanding.

Its like she says at the end of City of Stone. "Its the humans, alway the Humans!" her every bedevilment while often of her own making almost always has a human and their perceived or direct betrayal of her and her kind. Also in some ways I think she was psychologicaly damaged alot by her fighting her own natural isntincts. gargoyles protect she saw herself as a protector of her clan but her actions and behaviors lead often to putting her clan in danger or even to its destrctuon on no less then 2 occasions. That had to be hard on her psyche.

In the end she was a villain and committed many evil acts no doubt. But it does beg the interesting question of what if she had heeded Goliaths warning.

or even more so what if she had heeded the word sof Future Goliath in the marriage episode, and what if history had not been immutable? what if she ahd embraced love as Goliath suggested?
Kreuzritter wrote:and the worst part is, however right your words are catsi, it's equally true that her hatred is all just an excuse

Demona: "What have I...what have THEY done?"

John Canmore: "What have I...what have THEY done?"

that's the thing about 'evil, but for a good cause'. one needs to find any sort of scapegoat or beleif to cling to, or it will have all been for nothing.
Ares wrote:Yeah, however bad Demona's life might be, however sympathetic she might be presented, she lives in a Hell of her own making, and refuses to take responsibility for it. And as long as she blames others for her own mistakes, she's going to continue this vicious circle and remain alone. Red Cloak of Order of the Stick has a similar problem, whereby he's stuck in this downward spiral of evil that he feels compelled to keep doing, because if he acknowledges that he's gone too far or was in the wrong, it will make the sacrifices he's made meaningless, and so he basically keeps trying to bail water out of a boat that's already 3/4ths underwater and sinking fast.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Demona! Thailog! Macbeth! The Banshee! Odin!)

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:30 am

"Double Jeopardy": The age-old classic storytelling trope- The Evil, Super-Aged Clone. Well Thailog just looks about as bad-ass as humanly possible (black skin and white hair, plus he's a Gargoyle). And of course he betrays everybody, proving even XANATOS screws up once in a while. And yeah- smarter than Xanatos and as strong as Goliath? A monster.

"Upgrade": The Pack starts actively jobbing to the Clan four-on-four, so they decide to get an upgrade with cybernetics & genetic engineering, while Dingo just gets a suit of sweet armour. This was kind of necessary and cool, as the Pack was notoriously weak by this point already (being a bunch of human mercs with gadgets), and needed a big boost to stay competitive. Of course, after this episode, they started jobbing with even numbers again, but it was something. I love Jackal's response of "well THAT's sicker than usual" when Hyena drools all over the giant Coyote-bot. Wolf gains a more bestial appearance as the fight gets longer, but the show soon dropped that bit since it didn't come across clearly enough.

"Protection": This one always irked me, but at least it's established that Dracon doesn't REALLY think Elisa is a crooked cop on the take (granted, a woman like that could probably make me listen to an album of Katy Perry songs, so who knows what Elisa could persuade him to believe?). But everything here just feels too... awkward. Everyone's too gullible, and Tony is somehow dumb enough to say IN FRONT OF WITNESSES that he's going to blow up a store. And then he & his buddies open fire on the police- now I know it's just a cartoon, but they aspired to a bit of realism here. NO professional criminal would be dumb enough to have a firefight with the cops- if he ended up killing Matt & Elisa, then the entirety of the New York Police Department would've come down on his head. My best friend is a cop, and he's pretty clear on this- unless Dracon turned himself in, he'd have about a zero-percent chance of survival in New York if he'd actually iced a couple of cops in such a manner. Elisa babe-ing it up to intimidate people into giving protection is too funny to be dramatic.

The best part is actually Greg Weisman's notes on this episode- he said that "Jalapena!" being shouted was a Keith David thing that he wrote into the scripts. But Greg got SO into it that he over-used it, pissing off the entire staff (and a portion of the fanbase, apparently). Since I always felt it was kind of cheesy, I see where they're coming from.

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Re: The Hunters

Post by brothersale » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:03 pm

Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 am

-The Hunters are mainly Spy Guys and low-level Macbeth-type fighters, but also used some pretty cool Uber-Armour suits for a bit. Robyn is likely faster but weaker (ST 2, STA 3, FIGHTING 13, AGI 5- Weisman likens her to Batman, but I just ain't seeing her on that level at all), while Jason looks stronger and more competent overall as the leader (Ranged Attack +1, FIGHTING 13), but obviously lost all that due to a bullet.
I don't know, having read the Bad Guys graphic novel, I can definately see some parallels

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Re: The Hunters

Post by catsi563 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:18 pm

brothersale wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:03 pm
Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 am

-The Hunters are mainly Spy Guys and low-level Macbeth-type fighters, but also used some pretty cool Uber-Armour suits for a bit. Robyn is likely faster but weaker (ST 2, STA 3, FIGHTING 13, AGI 5- Weisman likens her to Batman, but I just ain't seeing her on that level at all), while Jason looks stronger and more competent overall as the leader (Ranged Attack +1, FIGHTING 13), but obviously lost all that due to a bullet.
I don't know, having read the Bad Guys graphic novel, I can definately see some parallels
My understanding of Robyn was the Batman parallel was meant more in the Jack of All trades vein, Robyn was supposed to have traveled all over the world picking up various skills and education, while the boys focused on more straight forward pursuits.

You know what? An Interesting thing about Demona is like Magneto before her I cant actually find it in me to call her evil persay. Did she do evil things? almost certianly City of Stone was a lot of nastiness, as was her wish for all the humans to be gone.

But if you look as her past you see this fearsome warrior who was in many ways actualy scared more often, and this fear drove her to hate. But worse like Magneto before her she had proof of the humans misdeeds. the destruction of her clan was an act of casual brutality, the loss fo the others to the hunter, the betrayal of macbeth a misunderstanding.

Its like she says at the end of City of Stone. "Its the humans, alway the Humans!" her every bedevilment while often of her own making almost always has a human and their perceived or direct betrayal of her and her kind. Also in some ways I think she was psychologicaly damaged alot by her fighting her own natural isntincts. gargoyles protect she saw herself as a protector of her clan but her actions and behaviors lead often to putting her clan in danger or even to its destrctuon on no less then 2 occasions. That had to be hard on her psyche.

In the end she was a villain and committed many evil acts no doubt. But it does beg the interesting question of what if she had heeded Goliaths warning.

or even more so what if she had heeded the word sof Future Goliath in the marriage episode, and what if history had not been immutable? what if she ahd embraced love as Goliath suggested?
Kreuzritter wrote:
and the worst part is, however right your words are catsi, it's equally true that her hatred is all just an excuse

Demona: "What have I...what have THEY done?"

John Canmore: "What have I...what have THEY done?"

that's the thing about 'evil, but for a good cause'. one needs to find any sort of scapegoat or beleif to cling to, or it will have all been for nothing.

Ares wrote:
Yeah, however bad Demona's life might be, however sympathetic she might be presented, she lives in a Hell of her own making, and refuses to take responsibility for it. And as long as she blames others for her own mistakes, she's going to continue this vicious circle and remain alone. Red Cloak of Order of the Stick has a similar problem, whereby he's stuck in this downward spiral of evil that he feels compelled to keep doing, because if he acknowledges that he's gone too far or was in the wrong, it will make the sacrifices he's made meaningless, and so he basically keeps trying to bail water out of a boat that's already 3/4ths underwater and sinking fast.
Interesting I hadnt remembered that one But yeah I stand by it. As a clarification I didnt think Demona should be excused for her actions but that it was easier to understand her. Still she made her choices and the consequences of those choices were laid bare in city of stone when the sisters pointed them out to her.

In many ways as Ares said its sort of an analogy of a person figging a hole who despite people telling her to stop digging and accept a hand out keeps complaining about how dark and dirty it is in the hole and keeps digging it deeper.
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

Showdown at the Litterbox

Catsi stories

Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Demona! Thailog! Macbeth! The Banshee! Odin!)

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:02 pm

"The Cage": The Labyrinth Clan returns, finally settling on a location (and set of appearances- Talon & Maggie turn into sleeker designs instead of messy, fuzzy characters). I wasn't so into these guys, but the episode's an interesting display of Power Levels- the guys are about equal to the Trio in combat, but their Blasts give them an advantage (they can shoot from afar while flying and stuff). They're less ACCURATE with them, however, as nearly every shot misses (but what DOES hit tends to leave victims a little loopy, showing that they're harder than physical blows, but not by a HUGE amount). Claw actually gets pushed back by Broadway and is unable to break a metal grating without leverage. Funny stuff: I spot Fang turn into Talon a few times thanks to model errors. At least it's not as bad as

"The Price": This episode is just PHENOMENAL. Ed Asner & Jonathan Frakes play extremely well off of each other here, as Xanatos kidnaps Hudson and they have a spirited debate about the virtues of immortality. Hudson actually verbally owns David a few times ("Growing old TERRIFIES you, doesn't it?"), and ol' David actually LOSES HIS COOL for a second with his comeback. Now how many characters can say they've flustered Xanatos? Things keep being awesome, with Hudson pointing out that "DEMONA and MACBETH are immortal- has it brought THEM happiness?", then taunting him with "OPEN THIS CAGE, and I'll show ye just how USELESS I am", "When all your scheming's done- what are ye left with?" and more. And then Hudson just uses his OWN SKIN as an Improvised Weapon to break free, and Xanatos actually lets him go, stating "he's earned it." I LOVE IT when villains have their own little codes of honor like that. Just a master-stroke of writing, and they've got the A-Team of animators working on this one as well.

"Avalon": One of the last big arcs, setting up the "World Tour", as the Archmage returns with some Variable Powers, and it's revealed that he's behind the Weird Sisters' control of Macbeth & Demona, AND that the Gargoyle Eggs from the Pilot survived into the modern day due to funny-time-stuff. The Eggs are now young adult Gargoyles, including one that looks like a Demona/Goliath hybrid. David Warner is great as the scary Archmage here. Huh- for someone who can throw humans upwards of twenty feet, Demona sure has trouble in a grapple with Elisa.

-A Ghost Story, featuring the return of Hakon & The Captain, who are trying to drive Goliath to his death, and steal his energy. Lots of good stuff about bitterness and hate, but the Captain finally atones for his misdeeds, betraying Hakon and saving Goliath's life. Hakon wails: "NOOOOO! Don't leave me here with no one to HATE!" All-star animation from the "A-Studio" (Tokyo Disney) here.

-The gang visits Prague, where Halcyon Renard drops his "integrity" act to go hunt for eternal life by stealing the Jewish Golem. He repents at the end, and we have a new Generic Crimeboss character who would later show up to feud with Tony Dracon.

Jabroniville
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Taserface

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:04 pm

ImageImageImage

TASERFACE (aka The Nameless One, Overkill)
Created By:
Jim Valentino
First Appearance: The Guardians of the Galaxy #1 (June 1990)
Role: Alien Race Representative
Group Affiliations: The Stark
PL 12 (182)
STRENGTH
13 STAMINA 14 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Expertise (Space Soldier) 6 (+8)
Intimidation 6 (+8)
Technology 6 (+8)

Advantages:
Close Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle

Powers:
"Neutralizes Energy"
Nullify Energy Attacks 14 (Extras: Broad, Ranged) Linked to Affliction 14 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled/Transformed to Powerless) (Extras: Ranged, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited to Energy Powers) (60) -- [61]
  • AE: Energy Blast 16 (Feats: Variable 2- Any Energy) (Extras: Penetrating 8, Multiattack) (58)
"Radar" Senses 4 (Ranged Radius Radio Vision, Infravision) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Energy Blast +8 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Neutralizing +8 (+14 Nullify & Affliction, DC 24 & 24)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +14, Fortitude +14, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation (Conquest)- The Stark wish to take over the galaxy and spread the word of their God, Tony Stark.
Enemy (The Guardians of the Galaxy)- Overkill is humiliated by his loss at the Guardians' hand, and wants revenge.

Total: Abilities: 92 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 65 / Defenses: 8 (182)

-"The Stark" were an enemy found in the early issues of Jim Valentino's Guardians of the Galaxy series in the early '90s- the idea being that they are the end result of an alien race finding a huge cache of Tony Stark's weapons technology. The Stark adopted Tony as their personal "Cargo Cult"-style God (so... they're Marvel's Advertising Department?), and began worshipping the weapons he sent over, turning themselves into a cybernetic race. Depleting their homeworld of resources, they became a conquering army. And of course named one of their agents TASERFACE.

-Taserface was one of their advance agents (the others appear without stats basically everywhere I can find them), and the exception to the rule of the matriarchal species. Upon losing to the Guardians, he dropped one of the worst names in comic book history, adopting the cool, but generic, "Overkill" as his nom-de-guerre- his Queen allowed him to improve his form by cybernetic means. In this format, he fights and nearly takes out FIRELORD of all people, but in a later battle, he commits suicide with a Self-Destruct device once he finds himself losing to Hollywood (an aged, more-powerful Simon "Wonder Man" Williams)- Williams survives.

-The guy's pretty hopelessly '90s, featuring hideous colours, metallic bits, spikes and assorted weaponry. Jim Valentino's Guardians series is well-liked, but WOW. And, of course, now he is MUCH more famous, having appeared in Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2, featuring a ton of cracks about his stupid, ridiculous name. The Guardians give him a mountain of shit over it, and even the stoic, humorless golden-skinned Space Queen chick (Her/Ayesha in a different form) cracked up and snickered when he was all "I am TASERFACE!". His final moments, before the ship is destroyed in a self-destruct and he dies in flames, is listening to a humorless women laugh at his stupid name.

-At his "Taserface" level, the guy was probably about PL 9-10- able to fend off the Guardians of the Galaxy (mostly PL 9s) for a bit, but ultimately be driven back. As Overkill, he manages to defeat FIRELORD in open combat! This could put him anywhere from PL 12 to PL 15, but with some "New Villain Stink" and the fact that Firelord isn't QUITE as powerful as The Silver Surfer, I went a bit lower. I mean, look at this guy- my personal bias against his goofy-ass '90s appearance ALONE would prevent him from hitting PL 13 :). And his history kind of matches up with this, as he later fights Hollywood and is eventually beaten handily enough that he blows himself up. A powerful Energy Blast and the ability to Nullify the Energy Powers of anyone he fights can make him pretty dangerous, even to a Herald of Galactus.

BriarThrone
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Macbeth! The Banshee! Odin! Oberon! Taserface!)

Post by BriarThrone » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Demona and Evil

The Sunk Cost Fallacy is deeply, deeply ingrained into the human psyche, and motivates way more of our behavior than anyone would really care to admit. It doesn't help that often there are major choices in life that shape a lot of your habits and your socialization. If you start questioning those, you quickly start to realize that your entire life is built on sand, and you're dicking with the levy.

Re: Overkill

D'you reckon his tailor took the client's name as design instruction?

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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Macbeth! The Banshee! Odin! Oberon! Taserface!)

Post by HalloweenJack » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:44 pm

I had no idea there was an actual Taserface

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