Jab's Builds! (Shades! Power Man! Hardcore! Jessica Jones!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:58 pm

I think it's kind of telling how many folks like talking about the less popular or "worthless/joke" members of the Legion that shows that powers often aren't the major reason why people like characters.

As has been mentioned by Jab, Chuck's a great example of a "team player hero". The more powerful Legionnaires can fight at pretty much any level, but Chuck CAN fight effectively on his own, he really shines when he has teammates to play off of. He's a good example of a "Byrne/Claremont" X-Men or "Wolfman/Perez" Titan level hero on a team that has several alien demi-gods, the galaxy's greatest martial artist, the smartest person in the known universe, one of the galaxy's greatest telepaths, someone who can transmute the elements, etc. So instead of trying to operate on their level, he instead works with the other lower heroes to increase their effectiveness.

Then again, I think there's kind of a misconception about how "skilled" heroes are. I actually think that, in some cases, the high powered heroes are roughly as skilled the lower powered ones, it's just that their focus and effort go into different areas. Less powerful heroes have abilities that max out at a certain point, so they have to focus on getting as much out of their power as they can and finding other ways to contribute to the team, such as non-combat skills, clever tactics, gadgets and the like. Conversely, high powered characters have to put all of their "skill points" into learning how to master and control their powers. I mean, I have to imagine it does take time and effort for the higher level guys to attain the kind of control and precision over their powers that they do, figure out how much Heat Vision will knock someone out and how much will kill them, how to use your super speed without crashing into stuff, how to fly effectively, etc.

So it's less that they aren't skilled and aren't team players, its just all of their skill goes into making sure their lightning blasts are completely under control and figuring out how to use their fire powers to fly. Meanwhile the less powerful types have more time they can focus on non-power related skills, which makes them better at various other things. So it all balances out.

Plus I like the idea that if Clark Kent had grown up with no superpowers, he still might have gone out and gotten trained to the point where he could be Captain America. :D
Woodclaw wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:23 pm
Personally I really liked the animated incarnation of Chuck mostly because at some point the writers realized that his powers were not his biggest contribution to the team, he was way more effective as the resident pilot, backup engineer and, later, field commander.
Likewise, I thought they did a great job with Chuck in that show. Plus the idea of making him the best pilot on the Legion is kind of brilliant, given his ability to juggle vectors and other such things.

My own head-cannon for the source of his power is that the guy he worked for found an old case of the Gingold soda that gave Elongated Man, but the stuff was so old that certain aspects had become diluted while others became more concentrated. When Chuck drank it, it gave him a level of enhanced durability and elasticity, but not enough to stretch or similar things. But he did figure out through trial and error how to take his familiar sphere shape, realized his bouncy nature, and set to work making that work for him. The rest is history.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by HalloweenJack » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:43 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:47 pm
Objection! That’s two Marvels and one DC! Chuck should get an assist from Oliver Queen.

For a tie breaker, they can all play darts.

For a tied tie breaker breaker, they can play beer pong and brag about who has the sexist girlfriend.
better hope Lightning Lad doesn't show up for that round

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Woodclaw » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:47 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:47 pm
Objection! That’s two Marvels and one DC! Chuck should get an assist from Oliver Queen.

For a tie breaker, they can all play darts.

For a tied tie breaker breaker, they can play beer pong and brag about who has the sexist girlfriend.
Seems fair.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Ken » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:05 am

Spam wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 pm
Fat guy that marries Menage a Trois Lass... don't you think his Presence should be higher?
Nyah. We've never seen him with his pants down, particularly while using his powers to -er- expand.
What kind of crap glass was used in the windows of Wayne Manor (post-Crisis) that an animal with a mass of less than 27 grams (i.e. weighs less than an ounce) could break through it?

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 am

Image

The man clearly knows the way to a woman’s heart(s): ice cream, movies, and geekily talking like a faux knight. It works for me.

Chuck didn’t just have Luornu fall into his arms, it actually took a good long while for their relationship to grow from platonic to romantic. Chuck was consistently sweet to her, consistently helpful with her problems, and just generally a great guy.

Image
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Timber Wolf

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:11 am

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TIMBER WOLF (Brin Londo, aka Lone Wolf, Furball)
Created By:
Edmond Hamilton & John Forte
First Appearance: Adventure Comics #327 (Dec. 1964)
Home Planet: Zoon/Zuun
Origin of Powers: Exposure to Zuunite Element
Eras: All Three
Relationships: Lightning/Light Lass
Role: The Bad-Boy, Animalistic Hero, Angry Guy
PL 10 (162)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+14)
Intimidation 7 (+8)
Expertise (Survival) 8 (+10)
Expertise (Space Hero) 4 (+5)
Insight 4 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 9 (+11)
Stealth 5 (+11)
Vehicles 1 (+4)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Equipment 10 (Legion Gear), Fast Grab, Fearless, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Hold, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 3, Startle, Takedown

Powers:
"Animal Abilities"
"Animal Senses" Senses 6 (Acute & Extended Scent, Low-Light Vision, Scent-Tracking, Ultra & Extended Hearing) [6]
Regeneration 5 (Feats: Diehard) [6]
Speed 3 (16 mph) [3]
Quickness 4 [4]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

Equipment:
"Legion Gear"
"Telepathic Ear Plug" Comprehend 3 (Languages) (6)

"Legion Flight Ring"
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Vacuum, Pressure, Radiation, Suffocation 2) (7)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) (2)
Communication 5 (Flaws: Fifth Rank is only towards Legionnaires) (18)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +8, Fortitude +10, Will +7

Complications: 
Relationship (Ayla Ranzz)
Responsibility (Animalistic)- Timber Wolf often looks more bestial than his teammates, depending on the era. He may act the part occasionally, too.
Responsibility (Temper)- Timber Wolf is pretty easily the most-likely Legionnaire to bust someone up the head for making a smart-assed remark.
Rivalry (Ultra Boy)- In the "Reboot" continuity, Timber Wolf was disliked by Ultra Boy thanks to some early attempts to win the affections of Apparition.

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 23 / Powers: 54 / Defenses: 13 (162)

Silver Age Timber Wolf:
-Every bio of Brin Londo must start out by stating that yes, the carnivore-named guy with the recognizable pointed haircut actually PRE-DATES Marvel's Wolverine, not only by origin, but he even had that haircut first. It's generally accepted that Dave Cockrum (who worked on the Legion book, and gave Brin that haircut) was thinking "Timber Wolf" when he designed Logan's recognizable mug. The "lone wolf" personality and somewhat grouchy nature is probably a big inspiration, too.

-Brin Londo gained low-level super-powers due to an experiment of his father's, joining the Legion in its early days (1964), but not really getting up to much. After a long relagionship with Light Lass, they break up when she finds him embracing Saturn Girl on a frozen asteroid (it's complicated- they were sharing an emotional reaction based off of their love for other people, Saturn Girl being a telepath and all). He was later turned into the largely-mindless dog-creature Furball thanks to Doctor Regulus. He is "cured" by Darkseid, as a means of sentencing him to death, but this is cured indirectly by a super-powered being who befriends Brin, turning him into more ofa  hybrid form. A Timber Wolf miniseries starts up around this time, set in the 20th Century. Ultimately, he returns to the future in a slightly furry state.

Later Timber Wolves:
-The Reboot Timber Wolf is a minor character, and appears to hail from Rimbor, like Ultra Boy. A rival gang leader, he and Ultra Boy compete for the affections of Apparition, but ultimately stepped aside, as he thought of her more as a friend. In the "Threeboot" era, he was MUCH more lupine, prone to Wolverine-style "Berserker Rages" and stuff. Here, he was extremely defensive of Princess Projectra, backing her up even when she did evil things. Post-Infinite Crisis, he had reconciled with Lightning Lass (though she later got into a relationship with Shrinking Violet once more), and later showed up in the Legion Lost "New 52" series, before it was cancelled.

Timber Wolf's Powers:
-T-Wolf is basically a Spider-Man-type guy, packing lots of physical Stats (especially Agility) to meet his caps, and is very good in combat, hovering somewhere around PL 10. He's less powerful than a great deal of Legionnaires (when your best stat is Strength, but Mon-El, Ultra Boy & Superboy all overpower you, you get left behind a lot...), but his accuracy makes up for it. It's a rare PL balance for a DC character, actually. The "Official" DCA builds features a guy who is like Strength 12, lifting a THOUSAND tons, but everything I've seen of the guy seems to imply he's just a very strong Scrapper-variant- there is absolutely no way the guy in The Great Darkness Saga is that strong, for example. He's honestly a bit out of place in the Legion, given how low his strength-levels are... but his more well-rounded nature nonetheless probably makes him a better member than Sun Boy, Phantom Girl or any number of Glass Cannons on the squad.

-Only the later, more lupine versions of the character sported enhanced senses and Regeneration- earlier on, he was a bit more simple. The "New 52" version could shoot out his fingernails, albeit with some pain, and regrow them in seconds.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Matter-Eater Lad! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel! Timber Wolf!)

Post by greycrusader » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:53 am

Timber Wolf's original power set was WAY more strength-based than his current one, which emphasizes intuitive fighting ability, superhuman reflexes, and minor super-strength (only in comics, where hefting 6 tons is minor league); in his earlier incarnations, T-Wolf had speed and strength rivaling Ultra-Boy, along with extraordinary leaping ability, acrobatic talents, and superior night-vision. No regeneration, claws, additional enhanced senses, or feral rages. That version of Brin Londo was capable of subduing elephant-sized alien monsters, shifting huge boulders, and tearing off the spire of a 30th century skyscraper. He got reinvented by the time the Great Darkness Saga went down, perhaps because Karate Kid was disliked by the creative team and used less and less (finally being killed off), and Levitz/Giffen realized a hand-to-hand fighter was missing on the team.

Granted, his initial powers didn't really earn him a place on the team with Mon-El, Clark and Kara Zor-El, and Ultra Boy, but I think the LSH charter has some sort of exemption about duplicating the powers of the Flying Brick quartet.

All my best.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Matter-Eater Lad! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel! Timber Wolf!)

Post by Ares » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:44 am

greycrusader wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:53 am
Timber Wolf's original power set was WAY more strength-based than his current one, which emphasizes intuitive fighting ability, superhuman reflexes, and minor super-strength (only in comics, where hefting 6 tons is minor league); in his earlier incarnations, T-Wolf had speed and strength rivaling Ultra-Boy, along with extraordinary leaping ability, acrobatic talents, and superior night-vision. No regeneration, claws, additional enhanced senses, or feral rages. That version of Brin Londo was capable of subduing elephant-sized alien monsters, shifting huge boulders, and tearing off the spire of a 30th century skyscraper. He got reinvented by the time the Great Darkness Saga went down, perhaps because Karate Kid was disliked by the creative team and used less and less (finally being killed off), and Levitz/Giffen realized a hand-to-hand fighter was missing on the team.

Granted, his initial powers didn't really earn him a place on the team with Mon-El, Clark and Kara Zor-El, and Ultra Boy, but I think the LSH charter has some sort of exemption about duplicating the powers of the Flying Brick quartet.

All my best.
From what I've read, Levitz actually really liked Karate Kid, and the artist they got to draw his death scene was actually a huge fan who didn't like that one of his first art jobs would be to draw the character's death, so he compensated by making it as epic a death as possible. It was Giffen who hated the guy and wanted to kill him, it's just that he convinced Levitz that their story demanded a death and that Karate Kid was a good fit for it.

As for Brin, yeah, I'd say a good analogy for how he was up to a point is Eric Larsen's Savage Dragon. Officer Dragon is in the 30-50 ton lifting range, very durable, very fast and highly agile, but not quite Spider-Man in terms of speed and agility. He does have limited superhuman leaping though, and his fighting style is an odd combo of acrobatics and brawling. Just where Dragon got a healing factor, Brin got enhanced senses. But Brin was interesting as a sort of Spider-Man/Wolverine hybrid, and like I said earlier, would have made a much better fit as an abrasive but well-meaning type instead of Lighting Lad.

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Re: Timber Wolf

Post by RainOnTheSun » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:41 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:11 am
Image
Speaking again as someone with no Legion knowledge, I absolutely love the idea of a wolf-themed hero with that haircut. It makes me imagine a blandly virtuous 1950s leading man who always eats all his vegetables, frowns on premarital sex, and is maybe a little bit suspicious of The Commies. Then every so often he rips someone's throat out with his teeth.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Matter-Eater Lad! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel! Timber Wolf!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:48 am

It makes me imagine a blandly virtuous 1950s leading man who always eats all his vegetables, frowns on premarital sex, and is maybe a little bit suspicious of The Commies. Then every so often he rips someone's throat out with his teeth.
You're describing R. Lee Ermey. We all just called him "The Gunny."
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Blok

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:54 am

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BLOK (Unpronouncable Name)
Created By:
Gerry Conway & Joe Staton
First Appearance: Superboy & The Legion of Super-Heroes #253 (July 1979)
Home Planet: Dryad
Origin of Powers: Racial Abilities
Eras: Original Only
Relationships: White Witch (unrequited crush)
Role: Doesn't-Understand-People Guy, Deadpan Guy, Powerhouse
PL 11 (148)
STRENGTH
13 STAMINA -- AGILITY -1
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Expertise (Space Hero) 4 (+5)
Expertise (Theology & Philosophy) 5 (+6)
Insight 3 (+5)
Intimidation 5 (+6)
Perception 4 (+6)
Persuasion 2 (+3)
Vehicles 3 (+3)

Advantages:
Diehard, Equipment 10 (Legion Gear), Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Interpose, Ranged Attack 4, Teamwork

Powers:
"Dryad Rock Structure"
Growth 3 (Str & Toughness +3, +3 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -3 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [7]
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Features 3: Increased Mass 3 [3]
Power-Lifting 3 (1,600 tons) [3]
Protection 12 (Extras: Impervious 17) [29]
Communication (Mental) 2 (Flaws: Limited to Silicon-Based Life Forms -2) [4]

Equipment:
"Legion Gear"
"Telepathic Ear Plug" Comprehend 3 (Languages) (6)

"Legion Flight Ring"
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Vacuum, Pressure, Radiation, Suffocation 2) (7)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) (2)
Communication 5 (Flaws: Fifth Rank is only towards Legionnaires) (18)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative -1

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +15 (+9 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (The Last of His Kind)
Relationship (White Witch)- Blok was infatuated with the White Witch immediately, and often childishly tries to follow her around, ask her things, or impress her. She appears to have no idea.
Relationship (Timber Wolf)- The two have an odd friendship- Blok treats him like a dear friend and disregards all mocking, while Brin just snarks and insults "pebble-head".
Responsibility (Super-Heavy)- Blok is so heavy that it takes THREE Legion Flight Rings to keep him airborne. This usually doesn't make too much of a difference, however (nor much sense, since Colossal Boy needed only one, even when a hundred feet tall).

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 19 / Powers: 72 / Defenses: 14 (148)

Blok- One and Done:
-Blok is a semi-late addition to the original Legion line-up, but came to be one of their most recognizable members, since he's a giant rock-dude and all. A giant silicon being from a dead planet called Dryad, he was a "Last of His Kind" type of guy who joined the team after first thinking they were the bad guys, and took up the resident role of "calm, rational and good-natured giant guy" as well, seemingly adopting two or three super-team stereotypes all by his lonesome. He actually feels much more like a Marvel character than a DC one. He's one of the funnier guys in the books I've read, often crushing on White Witch or chatting with Brin Londo (who just insults him). He would eventually quit the Legion after they were under suspicion by Earthgov, spending years in "quiet contemplation". Despite being well-liked, he was one of the semi-rare Legion casualties, being offed by some villain as a "message" to the other kids- this threat instead galvanizes the Legion, leading directly to its reformation. Blok's final moments are of happiness, as Stratra of L.E.G.I.O.N. (part of his world's mythology) leads him to the greater truth of his people. He turns up alive Post-Infinite Crisis, owing to the removal of the "Five Years Later" history. Here, he is finally in a relationship with the White Witch- something only hinted at in his obvious crush from the Pre-Crisis world.

-As Hero History notes, he'd attained a sense of popularity in that he was always one of the Legionnaires visible in group scenes (like in Crisis on Infinite Earths and other group-events), since he was one of the few who wasn't some generically designed kid with a replaceable costume. Me, I think he's one of the most "Marvel"-style Legionnaires- a big ugly rock-dude with a personality in contrast to his appearance, and a crush on a beautiful girl. And wouldn't ya know it- he originated from the mind of Gerry Conway, the Spider-Man scribe who killed Gwen Stacy.

-Oddly, despite being visually interesting, he didn't make it onto either the Reboot or Threeboot Legions (there was an imaginary tale in Threeboot, and some other members of his race seen in Reboot), even though the post-Zero Hour crew LOVED to feature non-human types. Granted, he is TOTALLY REDUNDANT on this team, being that he's a super-powerhouse fighter in the Marvel Team Strong-Guy sense, and nowhere near the weight class of Mon-El or Ultra Boy, both of whom have multiple OTHER powers, too.

Block's Powers:
-Blok is a Brick/Powerhouse, actually possessing decent Flying Brick capabilities thanks to the Legion Flight Ring. He's PL 10 on offense, and PL 11 on defense, owing to Thing/Colossus-like Strength & Toughness, but lower accuracy & defenses (being big & slow). He's tough enough to trade blows with DAXAMITES, but still more vulnerable than Kryptonian-level guys (some RPG stats have him as much tougher, but I never saw Mon-El job to a bunch of bombs before). He had some fluctuating abilities over the years, such as an Immunity to Energy (Light Lass couldn't make him lighter), Reflective Toughness (a +1 Extra) or straight-up control over his own Mass. Also he lost his nose somehow, but not by some in-story thing (like when Wolverine went noseless for a year)- Steve Lightle was just better at drawing him than Keith Giffen was.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Matter-Eater Lad! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel! Timber Wolf!)

Post by Ares » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:36 am

Blok was a fun character, and I think the noseless look works better for him. I mean, I doubt a silicon life-form has a sense of smell, might as well give him a more unique look.

I wonder if Timber Wolf ever found out about his friend's death. I imagine it would have hit him pretty hard.

I think the best way to make Blok work would have been to re-establish that mass controlling power of his, or make it something about how he can manipulate the silica in his body for different effects. Maybe some combo of the two allows him to do stunts like the energy reflection and being immune to certain types of effects, such as Light Lass' power. It might even be something where he has a base "Ben Grimm" level strength and durability, and he can mess with his mass/silica to give himself full on Daxamite strength or Daxamite durability (which includes the reflective durability) or he can make himself immune to various status effects, but he can't do all three at once. Sort of like a brick-focused Ultra-Boy who is always a Thing-level brick.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Matter-Eater Lad! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel! Timber Wolf!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:38 am

Exhibit #24,601 that the "One Unique Power" clause is applied totally and completely arbitrarily. If Rokk, Imra, and Garth like you, you're in; If they don't like you, you're out.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Matter-Eater Lad! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel! Timber Wolf!)

Post by Ares » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:48 am

I'm pretty sure that by the time Blok joined, the Legion had amended their constitution to get rid of the more childish rules, like the No Marriage rule and the No Duplicate Powers rule. After all, Ayla got her Lightning Lass powers back and no one batted an eye about her and Garth being on the same team, though Garth and Imra did leave to raise their kida shortly after.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Matter-Eater Lad! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel! Timber Wolf!)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:15 am

I always thought a more sensible restriction than "one unique power" would have been "no more than one active duty representative per member planet."

◦ This would still serve the narrative purpose of keeping the redundant powers of the team members in check;
◦ This would serve the in-universe purpose of showing that the Legion was answerable to a government that (a) recognized them as useful crime-fighters and emergency responders, (b) recognized them as good PR, and (c) didn't quite trust them;
◦ Lastly, be easy enough to "write around" when you did want to have redundant team members: Clark is from Earth, Kara is from Krypton, Mon-El is from Daxxam. (Plus, the "active duty" clause could enable some rules lawyering.)

If I were to run a Legion RPG campaign, this would be my set-up for the team's charter.
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