Jab’s Builds (Quan Chi! Shinnok! Onaga! Ferra/Torr! Erron Black!)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning Lad! Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl!)

Post by Batgirl III » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:26 pm

Goldar wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 pm
You guys and gals do understand that Matter Eater and Caloie Queen's home world of Bismol is named after the stomach antacid remedy, Pepto-Bismol, right? :shock: :lol: :P
Which is yet another reason that Tenzil is awesome.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning Lad! Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl!)

Post by Ken » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:34 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:00 pm
Incidentally, for those of you that haven't read it Linkara's review of The Great Darkness Saga is an excellent summary of one of the best LSH stories of all time.
Haven't already read the review, or haven't already read The Great Darkness Saga? Because I have a copy of one of them on a bookshelf.
Last edited by Ken on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning Lad! Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl!)

Post by Jabroniville » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:19 pm

I'm thinking of placing "positive remarks about Matter Eater Lad" next to "political arguments in the thread" as no-go territory. Perhaps... you must post pictures of Zarya for every complimentary thing said about any Bismollian :).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shrinking Violet

Post by scc » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:26 pm

Jabroniville wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:47 pm


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AND YOU WONDER WHY I LIKE GIANTESS STUFF?!?!!?
Testify!! This version of Vi was very voluptuous.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning Lad! Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl!)

Post by drkrash » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:48 pm

Goldar wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 pm
You guys and gals do understand that Matter Eater and Caloie Queen's home world of Bismol is named after the stomach antacid remedy, Pepto-Bismol, right? :shock: :lol: :P
I was going to comment on this also; I was afraid someone had already said it and I missed it.

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Gates

Post by Jabroniville » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:50 pm

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GATES (Ti'julk Mr'asz)
Created By:
Tom McCraw, Mark Waid & Lee Moder
First Appearance: The Legion of Super-Heroes #66 (March 1995)
Home Planet: Vyrga
Origin of Powers: Unknown
Eras: Reboot Only
Relationships: None
Role: Team Snarky Guy
PL 7 (186)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Deception 4 (+3)
Escape Artist 3 (+7)
Expertise (Law) 4 (+6)
Insight 3 (+5)
Perception 5 (+7)
Stealth 4 (+7)
Technology 6 (+8)
Vehicles 1 (+5)

Advantages:
Defensive Roll 2, Equipment 10 (Legion Gear), Ranged Attack 3, Set-Up

Powers:
"Vyrgian Pillbug-Thing Physiology"
Movement 1 (Slithering) [2]
"Compound Eyes" Senses 2 (Acute Scent, Low-Light Vision) [2]
"Not QUITE That Weak" Power-Lifting 2 (50 lbs.) [2]
"Pincers" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

"Green Teleportation Circles"
Teleport 12 (Feats: Increased Mass 8, Change Direction & Velocity, Turnabout) (Extras: Easy, Accurate, Extended, Portal +2) (95) -- [96]
  • AE: Movement 3 (Space Travel 3) (Extras: Portal +2) (12)
Equipment:
"Legion Gear"
"Telepathic Ear Plug" Comprehend 3 (Languages) (6)

"Legion Flight Ring"
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Vacuum, Pressure, Radiation, Suffocation 2) (7)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) (2)
Communication 5 (Flaws: Fifth Rank is only towards Legionnaires) (18)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +3, Fortitude +4, Will +5

Complications: 
Prejudice (Non-Communists)- Gates openly disrespects the more democratic governments of his comrades.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 16 / Powers: 103 / Defenses: 14 (186)

-Gates is a curious little addition to the Legion mythos in the post-Zero Hour-era, a *GASP* NON-HUMANOID member of the team! Resembling more a five-foot blue pillbug, Gates was from a semi-socialist government and was the Snarker of the team, frequently making fun of the others and complaining. This would make him more loveable, but problematically, comics has always had a tendency to reject non-humanoid or ugly super-heroes (see Pantha of the Teen Titans, or Feral of X-Force), so when the "Threeboot" happened, he didn't make the cut, along with most of the characters introduced in the '90s. 

-Gates is, in many ways, the "Iconic" member of the Reboot Legion, largely because he used a lot of that era's slang ("Sprock!" as a swear word), doesn't appear in the other continuities, and has a much more distinctive look that "pretty teenager in tights". Gates was an unwilling Legionnaire, drafted by his people into the group, which he considered militaristic and inherently fascist. Most of his people are conformists; he is among the few free thinkers. He was instrumental in a few missions, however, and made friends with Ultra Boy & Brainiac-5. He never reappeared in Threeboot, and since the "middle" Legion was eventually ignored, he hadn't shown up anywhere expect the Legion of Three Worlds story, where he got the first line of his team ("Grife! Where the sprock are we?"). That is, until Legion Lost reintroduced him as one of the Legionnaires trapped in the 21st Century. Unfortunately, that book was an early casualty of the New 52.

-Teleporting characters should generally be avoided in M&M campaigns (unlike comics, where they're a handy way to write yourself across the universe at rapid speeds), because let's face it, if you can 'Port out of ANY bad situation, then you're a walking gamebreaker and a royal pain in the GM's butt. The fact that this relatively minor character costs 186 points is proof of that. He's not much good in a fight, but he's great for setting people up or just getting out of the way. He nearly earned Shrinking, as they kind of off-and-on show him as being nearly man-sized (with full-length arms), or the size of a backpack, but I'll stack that up to him having no legs- his REACH is equivalent to a big person, so let's go with normal size, and just make him a weakling. The bug-senses I just kinda made up because real bugs have that- I have no idea if he does or not.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning Lad! Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl!)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:02 am

I want to see a crossover where Gates and Rocket Racoon hang-out in a bar.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning Lad! Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl!)

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:44 am

Gates is actually a pretty interesting example of how even a team with 30+ members like the Legion still hadn't covered all of their bases, as they hadn't had a teleporter on the team by that point and rarely someone on the team who wasn't humanoid. I get the feeling I was suppose to like him more than I did, but his constant ravings at the team about them being fascist tools and the like just got on my nerves. They weren't funny, they weren't insightful or thought provoking, they just came off as the ravings of someone who is so blind to reality that they refuse to see the truth of their own eyes. You know, like most SJWs.

Still, if they toned that aspect of the character down, kept him as a somewhat abrasive but still good-natured guy who was free with the snark, his inhuman appearance and teleporting powers made him a good fit for the team. That he became such good friends with Brainiac 5 was actually a nice touch.

Regarding the SW6 Legionnaires, I found an interesting article on a Legion fansite:
From Legion World.com

"Legion of Super-Heroes: The Beginning"
The writers of the Legion of Super-Heroes comic proposed a series based on the early years of the Legion of Super-Heroes, a series that would presumably follow the new, post-Mordruverse timeline. The concept went as far as getting its own entry in the Who's Who series, complete with (retroactively) new costumes designed by Chris Sprouse that would later be used by the SW6 Batch characters.

Dominator clones?
The pods that the "Batch SW6" emerged from were part of a Dominator experiment. Their weapon B.I.O.N. duplicated powers of the heroes, so the Dominators had access to the heroes in some form. Because some faults of the duplicated Legionnaires were "corrected," generic manipulation, or cloning, by the Dominators became a probable scenario. For example, during the time period in which the Legionnaires were likely duplicated, Lightning Lad was missing an arm. However, the SW6 Batch version had both arms.

Dark Circle involvement?
In Legion of Super-Heroes v4 #21, the adult Valor discovers data in a Dark Circle computer implying that the Circle created clones of Legionnaires. The Dark Circle planned to replace the real Legionnaires with the clones during a failed invasion of Earth. Valor cannot uncover more information, and he wonders if there is a clone Legion. If there is, are he and the Legionnaires he knows the originals or the clones? This story is never really followed up on, but the "which ones are the clones" question continued.

Giffen's "hat trick"
According to creator Keith Giffen, the younger Legionnaires were the real Legionnaires. Around Adventure Comics #348, the Dominators cloned the Legion. Therefore, the Legion from the past 20 years of published comics were actually clones. At some point, the adults' secret programming would be enabled and both teams would battle each other. A number of both younger and older Legionnaires would die, and the creators would choose the names of the doomed Legionnaires out of a hat (thus the nickname for this story idea of "hat trick"). This storyline never came to pass, and Giffen left the book. For more information, see this Legion Omnicom blog post.

The final answer
In Legion of Super-Heroes v4 #53, an entity that is later revealed to be the Time Trapper reveals information about the SW6 Batch to Glorith: The heroes are temporal duplicates of the Legion, stored underground near the Time Institute. The Time Trapper planned to use the team as an army to defeat Glorith. The SW6 Batch were presumably first discovered by the Dominators and awakened accidentally by the explosion of the Metropolis fusion powerspheres.
I can honestly appreciate them trying to bring back some elements of the classic Legion after Giffen had basically destroyed it for so many years, but man does that sound like a mess. And Giffen's "Hat Trick" . . . really? Clone Saga the Legion and then decide who lives and who dies based on names pulled out of a hat? Jeez. What a fucktard.

Remember what I said about writers being caretakers of the characters they wrote? Yeah, CLEARLY Giffen never got that memo. Actually reading that Legion Omnicrom blog post just makes it even more clear. Apparently when the editor told Giffen "No, the Legionnaires being clones and a lot of the cast in both books dying via random name picking is not going to happen", he walked off the book. And apparently, he blew up the Earth because "No one was paying attention", meaning the editors weren't paying attention to him closely and just blew up the planet because he could.

The more I find out about Giffen, the less I like him.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning Lad! Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl!)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:59 am

I think that Giffen doesn't get that the characters he writes for are not his sole creation. They're the collaborative work of decades of creative people before him and (hopefully) generations of creative people to come. More than that just, comic book characters are a sort of "modern mythology," they're the symbolic embodiment of our aspirations, our fears, our hopes, and our dreams. Giffen was a temporary caretaker of these dreams, with apologies to Yeats, he should learn to "tread lightly."
The Cloths of Heaven (Excerpt) wrote:But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
--W. B. Yeats
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The One-Woman Threesome

Post by Jabroniville » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:47 am

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

I like those thigh-highs with the holes. That's all I got.

TRIPLICATE GIRL (Luornu Durgo, aka Duo Damsel, Triad & Una)
Created By:
Jerry Siegel & Jim Mooney
First Appearance: Action Comics #276 (May 1961)
Home Planet: Cargg
Origin of Powers: Racial Abilities
Eras: All Three
Relationships: Bouncing Boy
Role: Weak Hero
PL 8 (174)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 5 (+9)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+5)
Insight 4 (+5)
Perception 4 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+3)
Stealth 5 (+8)
Technology 2 (+3)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Defensive Attack, Equipment 10 (Legion Gear), Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Set-Up, Taunt, Teamwork 2

Powers:
"Carggite Physiology"
Summon 8 (Extras: 2 Minions +2, Horde, Heroic +2, Controlled) (Flaws: Will Lose A Minion Permanently If Killed) [56]
"Duplicate Devices" Create 3 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Continuous) (Flaws: Limited to Handheld Devices She's Holding) [7]

"Martial Arts" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

Equipment:
"Legion Gear"
"Telepathic Ear Plug" Comprehend 3 (Languages) (6)

"Legion Flight Ring"
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Vacuum, Pressure, Radiation, Suffocation 2) (7)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) (2)
Communication 5 (Flaws: Fifth Rank is only towards Legionnaires) (18)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Bouncing Boy)
Enemy (Computo)- Computo's slaying of one of Luornu's selves left Duo Damsel terrified of the villain for years.

Total: Abilities: 58 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 20 / Powers: 63 / Defenses: 15 (174)

Silver Age Triplicate Girl:
-Triplicate Girl was one of the very first inductees of the Legion of Super-Heroes, which makes sense because she's rather silly and not that well-thought-out as a concept (I mean, a regular girl turning into THREE PEOPLE? And she fights CRIME with those powers?). However, her age creates a strong sense of "Grandfather Clause" about her, in that she'll ALWAYS be around because she was such a big part of the early stories. Even so, she was written as pretty worthless most of the time, occasionally saving the day (like EVERYONE, from Mon-El to Matter-Eater Lad), but really just being a normal girl who happened to Summon two other normal people. Thusly, she got written out eventually (after losing a clone in one story and becoming "Duo Damsel" from then on), becoming a minor supporting character for the most part.

-Luornu Durgo could turn herself into three identical people, as could all the people of Cargg, who had three suns orbiting their world (because of course those things would be related). She is the first non-founder to join the Legion of Super-Heroes, which is pretty hilarious. She nursed an unrequited crush on Superboy, and was later shattered when one of her "bodies" was killed by Computo, a rogue creation of Brainiac-5's. Thereafter, she became known as Duo Damsel- the experience of losing part of herself left her emotioanlly traumatized, and she would be too afraid to confront the rogue computer from then on.

-A fan wrote in a bicolored costume that would "split" into monochromatic versions when she duplicated- something that every continuity (and even the cartoon!) would adopt, because that's just a nifty idea. However, Luornu would retire from the Legion to marry Bouncing Boy, thirteen years after her debut (1974), and have many kinky, non-bigamist threesomes. Her other "self" was killed by the Time Trapper in a mission to avenge the death of Superboy, but this was retconned into being the villain Glorith's doing later on. Later, this body turned up alive, because even DUPLICATES just aren't able to be killed these days in comics. After a point, she could generate Force Fields thanks to a special belt from Brainiac-5.
-Luornu would never rejoin the Legion, but remained in charge of the Legion Academy (alongside Bouncing Boy), and meet her "SW6" clone, who eventually took the name Triad.

Later Luornus:
-In the Reboot continuity, Luornu was considered defective- she shared THREE PERSONALITIES when she was born, instead of just one! Her mother eventually committed suicide after her father abandoned the family- a direct result of her "defects". Her people tortured her in an asylum for years, trying to get her "selves" to act the same way. Eventually, she escaped confinement, and took up with a sympathetic R.J. Brande, who let her join the Legion, where she took the name "Triad" once more. She was one of the team's most consistent members, never losing a "self". This continuity gave her the biggest push to date, and she developed martial arts "Tri-Jitsu" know-how to become a Martial Artist-type character, overcoming the old weakness (I always say with weak-powered heroes: they have one more power than BATMAN or CAPTAIN AMERICA have, so they're one karate lesson away from being bad-ass anyways).

-In "Threeboot", Triplicate Girl is the only inhabitant of Cargg, and has an unknown origin. She could split into nearly limitless numbers, all sharing a single consciousness. When three of herself travelled off-world as emissaries of Cargg, the others considered them "tainted" for having different experiences and met unknown people- they were no longer welcome on Cargg, and thus, joined the Legion, where they could merge into one being at will.

-In the Post-Infinite Crisis run, a single Luornu, calling herself "Una", aided Karate Kid in the 21st Century. However, both are killed in something involving Deadman and some OMACs- in The Legion of Three Worlds, she appears as "Duplicate Damsel", then Duplicate Girl, able to create vast numbers of bodies. Here, she reveals that Una was the second and last of her original duplicates.

Duplication = Expensive Power:
-Triplicate Girl, like most Duplicators, is EXTREMELY expensive, but given that it's a system that heavily favours greater numbers (team-up attacks and multiple Toughness checks make things tricky), but what the hey- she also gets to duplicate items she's holding (a potentially DEVASTATING power, like when she triplicates a laser weapon, or allowing all three Luornus the abilities of the Flight Ring). The clones are Heroic and Controlled (since it's basically all just Luornu, though the Reboot version gave the triplets different personalities), and both come out at once, with the only Flaw being that it will be lost forever if a clone dies (in the 1960s, Computo killed one of them- hence "Duo Damsel").

-I statted her up mostly with Tri-Jitsu type attack feats and Teamwork, since she's pretty useless otherwise- an Original Series Luornu is much weaker, barely even PL 6 or 7. I'd advise all GMs to force players to play their Duplication guys as a PL or two lower than the rest for reasons of the stacking of Set-Up, Teamwork and stuff as Advantages (fighting all three of her versus one guy could get nasty). Not a bad little character, but way underpowered to the rest of the team.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:02 am

Duplicators also have the not-on-the-character-sheet advantage of really mucking about with the action economy of a tabletop game. Mon-El gets to do one thing on his turn, Brainiac-5 gets to do one thing on his turn, Saturn Girl gets to do one thing on her turn... Lournu gets to do two or three.

Even if the things the duplicator does aren't directly related to combat, she can do all sorts of crazy shenanigans if they have tech skills (hack Big Bad Evil Guy's laser turrets to shoot his minions, search Big Bad Evil Guy's office to get the evidence of the crime, and sabotage Big Bad Evil Guy's getaway jet -- simultaneously); any good Interpersonal Skills and related Advantages (Distract the Mini-Boss, Startle the Minions, and Fascinate the Big Bad -- simultaneously); or just being played by a player who doesn't mind if the other players "get the kill" (Set-Up the Paragon, Set-Up the Power-House, Set-Up the Martial Artist. Bam. Biff. Pow!)
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:03 am

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Behold! The luckiest man in the DC Multiverse.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:18 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:02 am
Duplicators also have the not-on-the-character-sheet advantage of really mucking about with the action economy of a tabletop game. Mon-El gets to do one thing on his turn, Brainiac-5 gets to do one thing on his turn, Saturn Girl gets to do one thing on her turn... Lournu gets to do two or three.

Even if the things the duplicator does aren't directly related to combat, she can do all sorts of crazy shenanigans if they have tech skills (hack Big Bad Evil Guy's laser turrets to shoot his minions, search Big Bad Evil Guy's office to get the evidence of the crime, and sabotage Big Bad Evil Guy's getaway jet -- simultaneously); any good Interpersonal Skills and related Advantages (Distract the Mini-Boss, Startle the Minions, and Fascinate the Big Bad -- simultaneously); or just being played by a player who doesn't mind if the other players "get the kill" (Set-Up the Paragon, Set-Up the Power-House, Set-Up the Martial Artist. Bam. Biff. Pow!)
I have wondered about alternate ways to model duplication in RPGs, especially since I'm working on one myself. Part of me wonders if a better idea might be something like each rank of duplication gives you either a separate action you can take, increase the number of people you can attack per round, or allows you to grant yourself a bonus to a particular action to reflect your duplicates aiding you. Then you make one action check to all of the things you're attempting and compare the results to all of them. So you could use Duplicates 1-5 to attack 5 people, Duplicates 6-8 helping you grapple the strong guy, while Duplicates 9-10 go search for something, but you'd just make one action check and apply it to all of said actions. It slows things down a little, but less than each duplicate getting a separate action and action check.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:38 am

I was also re-reading the Legionnaires series that DC put out right before Zero Hour, the one that focused on the SW6 kids and their attempts to act like a proper superhero team in that century. The early stuff was pretty decent, but it became very hit or miss by the time Zero Hour hit and the setting got a proper re-boot. I will say that the original art by Chris Sprouse was pretty solid, though it got VERY crappy later on.

What honestly stands out the most is what a complete and total ASSHOLE Garth/Lightning Lad/Live Wire was in that run. I mean, I get that the Legion was originally a bunch of bland kids who all got along super well together, and adding in some conflicting personalities helps spice things up. But Live Wire was just a complete jerk with almost no redeeming qualities. He took no responsibility for his actions, was constantly pushing other people's buttons, was a smug, arrogant jerk, etc.

One scene that stands out was when Cosmic Boy was doing actual repair work on some machinery while Live Wire floated nearby. Live Wire was talking about how hot Saturn Girl was and how lucky he was to be dating her, and asked Cos if he ever thought about trying to date her. Cos said "no", of course, explaining that he'd never try and mess with someone else's relationship. Garth just smugly smiles and calls it a cop out answer, because of course Cos wants her. Cos THEN goes on to say, "But if you two ever broke up, then sure, I'd be a fool NOT to try and date her", at which point Garth gets pissed and zaps the spot near Cos' hand with lightning. When Cos demands to know why he did that, Garth says, "Just a friendly reminder to watch where you put your hands. You never know what kind of trouble you'll find if you put them where they don't belong", and flies off.

I just . . . WOW. So Garth spends a conversation bragging about his girl, demanding Cos admit that he'd want to date her, and basically calling Cos a wuss for respecting his friend's relationship. And when Cos gives one situation where he might actually do as Garth suggests, Garth gets mad and threatens him. It's insane. And he was suppose to be a hero and founding member of the team, but he was like some ramped up version of Flash Thompson at his absolute worst.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lightning & Matter-Eater Lad! Laurel Kent! Saturn Girl! Duo Damsel!)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:47 am

I dunno, I remember that exact scene pretty well, and it seems like exactly h=the sort of behavior one sees from a certain sort of "Dudebro" teenagers and twenty-somethings. Maybe making Lightning Lad into the dudebro Live-Wire wasn't a good decision* such a scene was perfectly in character with the new personality.

* Personally, I liked it. It was nice having a team of good people who weren't necessarily squeaky clean Father Knows Best types, but also weren't total grimdark A-holes. This incarnation of these kids still acted like the teenagers and twenty-somethings they were meant to be, Live-Wire was a bit of a douche, but he was the kind of douche that still has friends because he's fun to hangout with, is never intentionally cruel, and does do "the right thing" when push comes to shove.
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