Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[Jack of Spades]

The Adrian Chase Vigilante series wasn't a great series by any stretch, but I'll give it credit for having a definite end goal in sight after a certain point, and decided to showcase the psychological downward spiral of a man who became a crimefighter with the best of intentions, but slowly fell down into madness. Because being a violent vigilante that kills criminals requires a few things in order to keep from going crazy.

If you're the Punisher, you just embrace the fact that you're a broken individual and that the only pleasure you can have is from killing criminals.

If you're an old school Pulp hero like the Spider or Shadow, you require strict mental discipline, people to help keep you grounded, and a strict rule against killing innocent people, especially cops.

Adrian Chase tried very hard to not be the former, but couldn't live up to the latter. During one issue, in order to escape capture, Adrian killed a police officer. According to the writer, this was intentional, and from that point on, the series was always going to end with Chase realizing how unstable he had become, culminating in Chase taking his own life rather than fall even further. If anything, Adrian Chase should have been the DC's gold standard for how NOT to be a superhero, and should have been brought up every now and then to showcase why the heroes were largely against Punisher-style characters and why not everyone is cut out to be a superhero.

Ares, you nailed perfectly why the Punisher will always be, to me, a villain, not even and anti-hero. He's a murderer, he knows it, he likes it, and he makes no effort to stop. I thought Adrian Chase came over as tragic, the more so for the build-up he got in Titans before he went over the line, and his attempts to be a good judge even after he became the Vigilante.

[Jabroniville]

TANKER (Real Name Unknown)
Created By: Marv Wolfman & George Perez
First Appearance: The New Teen Titans Annual #2 (1983)
Role: Jobber Villain, One-Off Foe
Group Affiliations: None
PL 7 (93)
STRENGTH 2/7 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Criminal) 1 (+6)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+5)
Perception 3 (+5)
Technology 5 (+10)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"Tanker Powersuit" (Flaws: Removable) [21]
Enhanced Strength 5 (10)
"Battering Ram Arms" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Split) (2)
"Tank Treads" Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) (2)
Protection 5 (Extras: Impervious 7) (12)
-- (26 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Tank Strength +6 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +3 (+8 Tanker Suit), Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 21 / Defenses: 10 (93)

-Tanker is the only member of his squad with real Powers- a peculiar Powersuit that has tank-treads and is more brute strength than anything. It's actually kind of neat for a small-time villain's powers- why build complicated legs or flight stuff when you can just put on some treads? Tanker speaks of an accident that claimed his wife and two daughters, but confesses he's come to enjoy his new life as a mercenary. Using his suit, Tanker batters Wonder Girl a handful of times, puts her through a wall, and then promises to slowly strangle her to death- Donna points out he's strong enough to DO it, but does the old "Limit Break" and essentailly rips his suit to shreds with a single hammer blow.

-All of this means that Tanker is quite tough, but his defenses are poor, and a good Power Attack wipes him out entirely.

[Jabroniville]

Next up... the most egregious people left out of the "DC Adventures" books by Green Ronin! I mean, I can see leaving out members of the Teen Titans or Legion of Super-Heroes, or even The Crime Syndicate, Icon & Rocket, but THESE GUYS? COMPLETELY SHAMEFUL.

THE HANGMEN:

-The Hangmen are so beautifully Jobber-y. DC is quite lacking in memorable Jobbers, often creating sub-par "serious" villains that are nonetheless recurring and occasionally get this boost towards respectability (most of Wonder Woman's Rogues Gallery is like that- Catman is so notable that I call making a terrible character good "Getting Catmanned"), or having Jobbers that are so forgettable that they never appear again. Marvel, by contrast, has DOZENS AND DOZENS of random-ass background Jobbers that are ALWAYS kicking around, thanks in large part to the need for creating one-shot villains for Marvel Team-Up & Marvel Two-In-One in the 1970s & early '80s. Similarly, the X-Books of the 1990s are CHOCK-FULL of "this is a team of guys from the drawing pad of one artist's random character designs" types- The Dark Riders (Jim Lee), The Acolytes (Lee, Brandon Peterson, John Romita Jr.), The Mutant Liberation Front (Rob Liefeld), Weapon: PRIME (Liefeld, Greg Capullo), etc. Guys like The Shocker, Basilisk and dozens of other Scourge victims and Thunderbolts members are not only hilariously Jobber-like by nature, but even likeable and memorable for bits of nostalgia or "hey, I remember that loser!" DC just... lacks in this regard.

-However, The Hangmen perfectly represent this. They're a collection of one-note Jobbers formed for a single appearance in Jay Faerber & Paul Pelletier's run on the late '90s, early '00s Titans book- they're a gang of assassins doing a Kidnap Job on Lian Harper, daughter of Arsenal & Cheshire, to ensure Cheshire's co-operation on something during her upcoming trial for genocide (she blew up a country in the Middle East in Birds of Prey, which had the nasty effect of making her seem WAY more straight-up evil than she had been before, making Roy Harper's continued love for her seem REALLY weird- back in the day she was actually a more honorable assassin that even betrayed her Afrikaaner employers after she'd killed an anti-Apartheid activist under their orders). It was basically young Titan Argent, Lian and Lian's babysitter Chanda walking around, and suddenly they were attacked by a gang of super-villains.

These guys were HORRIBLY one-note- an Electrical Blaster, a Mind Controller, a Strong Chick and a Kill-O-Bot Cyborg who looked REALLY dated for a 2000 comic book. They were clearly just half-assed ideas from Paul Pelletier's sketch pad, long before he'd get well-known for his work on Guardians of the Galaxy and Hulk stuff. Even their COSTUMES are just awful. And the team was impressively-ineffective, too- not only did they fail to even K.O. Argent (the least-experienced Titan) despite being FIVE-ON-ONE, but they were easily and casually wiped out by a small group of Titans who arrived (a particularly-funny panel includes Character Exposition while you can see Nightwing casually knocking out a guy with a jump kick- seriously, he has the most neutral expression and relaxed pose in mid-kick). Granted, they were pretty used to Lian being in danger by this point (a common cliche was "OH NO LIAN IS IN DANGER", usually because she was at HQ when it got attacked- but MAN it got silly to see Arsenal cry out "Lian's in there!" ad nauseum).

And the funny part was they never showed up in the Titans book again- they were wrecked WAY too easily to have any credibility. Their '90s-ness was also a stand-out, with a Killer Cyborg and a Hot Blue Chick in a Thong included amongst their forgettable number. They were used by subsequent writers essentially as Background Nobodies to be easily killed where it wouldn't matter (ideal for major Crossovers to gain some "Pretend Importance" by taking players out of the sandbox). The hilarious thing was, THEY DID THAT TWICE- they were all killed by Dr. Psycho (who forced a group of citizens to literally tear them limb from limb) during Infinite Crisis, as they tried to loot a city while under the employ of Alexander Luthor's Secret Society of Super-Villains. For going against orders, they were slain.

But then... ANOTHER WRITER decided to use them! Someone wrote a part of Final Crisis that had them joining LIBRA's Secret Society, stating that Dr. Psycho had faked their deaths (for what purpose, I have no idea). When the third Spectre attacks Libra (*shrug* I didn't read that story- bad reviews kept me away), but fails and instead just kills the Hangmen with energy ropes. This strikes me as the kind of thing done more as a gag in "LOL! These guys were so useless we killed them twice!"

Of course, this wouldn't prevent one of them from returning AGAIN- Killshot (the Cyborg) showed up in a group ambush of the JSA years later during the Willingham/Sturges run on the book that led to start bombing in sales post-Geoff Johns (this means that Killshot is in fact one of very few comic book characters to be resurrected TWICE). A new team of Hangmen were fought by Batman & Robin in a Batman arc as well.

The Roster:
Breathtaker- Blue-skinned girl whose power is to pull the air out of people's lungs.
Provoke- Low-level Mind Controller.
Strangehold- Eight-foot tall woman with super strength.
Shock Trauma- Generic Electrical Guy.
Killshot- Russian Cyborg.

[greycrusader]

Hey, I know your in-italics-comment was a jest, but Icon and Rocket (and Hardware) were all SUPPOSED to be in the DCA books, and had entries from yours truly-till apparently DC realized they didn't have the rights to use the characters in a game. That's why all the Milestone heroes and villains were missing.

And I lobbied for ALL the Crime Syndicate, but was over-ruled. I least I got Ultra the Multi-Alien in, thank goodness!

All my best.

[KorokoMystia]

Hey, I know your in-italics-comment was a jest, but Icon and Rocket (and Hardware) were all SUPPOSED to be in the DCA books, and had entries from yours truly-till apparently DC realized they didn't have the rights to use the characters in a game. That's why all the Milestone heroes and villains were missing.

And I lobbied for ALL the Crime Syndicate, but was over-ruled. I least I got Ultra the Multi-Alien in, thank goodness!

All my best.

I was surprised by the unnamed White Martian of the Crime Syndicate being in there, since as far as I remember, he was only mentioned and never appeared on-panel. The animated movie did have a Martian Manhunter counterpart on the CSA, but that was a four-armed bulky guy instead.

[Ares]

The Roster:
Breathtaker- Blue-skinned girl whose power is to pull the air out of people's lungs.
Provoke- Low-level Mind Controller.
Strangehold- Eight-foot tall woman with super strength.
Shock Trauma- Generic Electrical Guy.
Killshot- Russian Cyborg.

I wonder who will prove Jabs favorite.

[Jabroniville]

SHOCK TRAUMA (Real Name Unknown)
Created by: Jay Faerber & Paul Pelletier
First Appearance: Titans #21 (Nov. 2001)
Role: Jobber Villain, Blaster
Group Affiliations: The Hangmen
PL 7 (75)
STRENGTH 1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+3)
Deception 3 (+4)
Expertise (Assassin) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 2 (+3)
Ranged Combat (Electricity) 1 (+7)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 3

Powers:
Electrical Blast 7 (Feats: Split) [15]
Flight 5 (30 mph) [10]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Electrical Blasts +7 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2, Fortitude +3, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Money)

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 25 / Defenses: 11 (75)

-Shock Trauma is a great example of why this team was so bad & forgettable (if not for their sheer Jobber-iness). He’s a short Japanese guy who wears what is basically a bad Hobgoblin Cosplay outfit (scraggly orange poncho & cape over regular black clothing), who fires Electrical Bolts, and can fly for some unknown reason. “Flies For No Reason” being a very generic thing to add to a random character.

-Shock Trauma’s only two “Feats” involve failing to penetrate Argent’s Force Field, and being casually kicked into unconsciousness by Nightwing. It was a hilarious panel, two- S.T.’s going flying with his arms splayed out and his mouth open, while Nightwing is tight-lipped and basically doing the most casual Jump Kick ever, having a regular conversation with Tempest. It also seems pretty clear that this guy is the team’s resident whiner, since he cranked out the second the other Titans showed up to stop the Hangmen.

[greycrusader]

Hey, I know your in-italics-comment was a jest, but Icon and Rocket (and Hardware) were all SUPPOSED to be in the DCA books, and had entries from yours truly-till apparently DC realized they didn't have the rights to use the characters in a game. That's why all the Milestone heroes and villains were missing.

And I lobbied for ALL the Crime Syndicate, but was over-ruled. I least I got Ultra the Multi-Alien in, thank goodness!

All my best.

I was surprised by the unnamed White Martian of the Crime Syndicate being in there, since as far as I remember, he was only mentioned and never appeared on-panel. The animated movie did have a Martian Manhunter counterpart on the CSA, but that was a four-armed bulky guy instead.

I actually proposed calling him "The Martian Mankiller", and wanted to use the same name-J'edd J'arkas-as the animated version, but was overruled on both points. I also wanted to do the Hawkman counterpart as an ancient Aztec warrior-king (paralleling Carter Hall's past as a reincarnated Egyptian Pharaoh) but got shot down by DC editorial.

All my best.

[KorokoMystia]

That jump kick panel does sound hillarious, and kinda reminds me of that infamous panel from Youngblood:

[Ken]

Hey, I know your in-italics-comment was a jest, but Icon and Rocket (and Hardware) were all SUPPOSED to be in the DCA books, and had entries from yours truly-till apparently DC realized they didn't have the rights to use the characters in a game. That's why all the Milestone heroes and villains were missing.

And I lobbied for ALL the Crime Syndicate, but was over-ruled. I least I got Ultra the Multi-Alien in, thank goodness!

All my best.

I was surprised by the unnamed White Martian of the Crime Syndicate being in there, since as far as I remember, he was only mentioned and never appeared on-panel. The animated movie did have a Martian Manhunter counterpart on the CSA, but that was a four-armed bulky guy instead.

I actually proposed calling him "The Martian Mankiller", and wanted to use the same name-J'edd J'arkas-as the animated version, but was overruled on both points. I also wanted to do the Hawkman counterpart as an ancient Aztec warrior-king (paralleling Carter Hall's past as a reincarnated Egyptian Pharaoh) but got shot down by DC editorial.

Maybe if the film John Carter had come out a year or two earlier, and had done better.

[Ares]

Hey, I know your in-italics-comment was a jest, but Icon and Rocket (and Hardware) were all SUPPOSED to be in the DCA books, and had entries from yours truly-till apparently DC realized they didn't have the rights to use the characters in a game. That's why all the Milestone heroes and villains were missing.

And I lobbied for ALL the Crime Syndicate, but was over-ruled. I least I got Ultra the Multi-Alien in, thank goodness!

All my best.

That makes me sad. It would have been nice seeing the Milestone guys statted up in the DCU proper. I would have been curious to see how they would have stacked up to other heroes. Icon was always in kind of a weird place because the default Milestone setting was generally less powerful than the standard DCU, but when he fought Superman the two were pretty evenly matched. Superman claimed Icon nearly knocked him out with their first collision, while Icon was bleeding from the impact. But Superman held his own against the Blood Synicate quite handily, while the BS actually defeated Icon.

My guess would be Icon is more in the Captain Atom class of nearly-but-not-quite Superman level physically, but his energy attack was probably more high end than what Superman can achieve. So while he could have a decent punch fight with Superman, he'd need to do the "energy fist brass knuckles" to really have a shot, and would be better off unloading on Clark with energy attacks.

Meanwhile Hardware and Steel were on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Steel has this suit that as absolutely no bells or whistles. It makes him really strong, really tough, lets him fly, swing a mean hammer and shoot metal spikes. Hardware's armor is less strong/tough, but much more in line with an Iron Man-style suit in terms of being insanely versatile. The contrast carries over into their personalities, where Steel is a noble, selfless and good-natured hero, while Hardware is . . . well, an arrogant, condescending asshole. Though supposedly his encounter with Steel made Hardware try to be a better hero.

[Jabroniville]

MARRY ME MY GODDESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

STRANGLEHOLD (Real Name Unknown)
Created by: Jay Faerber & Paul Pelletier
First Appearance: Titans #21 (Nov. 2001)
Role: OH MY GOD HELL YES, Jobber Villain, Powerhouse
Group Affiliations: The Hangmen
PL 7 (73)
STRENGTH 8 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Deception 3 (+3)
Expertise (Assassin) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 6 (+6)
Perception 1 (+1)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Ranged Attack 3

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +7, Fortitude +7, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Money)

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 7 (73)

-Stranglehold is an eight-foot-tall female powerhouse (HHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK) from Puerto Rico who wears one of those generic outfits that could basically be workout gear for all we know. She had little sense of humor for the antics of the other members of the team, and even got an EMBARRASSING beatdown from Jesse Quick, who pointing out upon Stranglehold shrugging off one of her punches, said “When you hit this fast, you don’t have to hit hard!”. Not one of the more inspiring catchphrases out there, really.

-Stranglehold is a low-end, PL 7 Powerhouse build who was HANDILY defeated in her first appearance by a run of the mill Speedster with like a +2-3 Damage unarmed attack. If a standard Multiattack can bring you down, you’re not much of a powerhouse.

[Woodclaw]

The Adrian Chase Vigilante series wasn't a great series by any stretch, but I'll give it credit for having a definite end goal in sight after a certain point, and decided to showcase the psychological downward spiral of a man who became a crimefighter with the best of intentions, but slowly fell down into madness. Because being a violent vigilante that kills criminals requires a few things in order to keep from going crazy.

If you're the Punisher, you just embrace the fact that you're a broken individual and that the only pleasure you can have is from killing criminals.

If you're an old school Pulp hero like the Spider or Shadow, you require strict mental discipline, people to help keep you grounded, and a strict rule against killing innocent people, especially cops.

Adrian Chase tried very hard to not be the former, but couldn't live up to the latter. During one issue, in order to escape capture, Adrian killed a police officer. According to the writer, this was intentional, and from that point on, the series was always going to end with Chase realizing how unstable he had become, culminating in Chase taking his own life rather than fall even further. If anything, Adrian Chase should have been the DC's gold standard for how NOT to be a superhero, and should have been brought up every now and then to showcase why the heroes were largely against Punisher-style characters and why not everyone is cut out to be a superhero.

It's interesting that in most depicitions of the Punisher the basic assumption was that he took no pleasure in killing criminals, it was just literally just a job for him. The one who took an insane amount of pleasure in executing criminals was Jake Gallows (the 2099 Punisher), who was mush more unstable than Frank Castle.

[Shock]

STRANGLEHOLD (Real Name Unknown)

A surprisingly restrained write-up. Were you feeling a little tired for some reason? Getting enough fluids?

[M4C8]

The Adrian Chase Vigilante series wasn't a great series by any stretch, but I'll give it credit for having a definite end goal in sight after a certain point, and decided to showcase the psychological downward spiral of a man who became a crimefighter with the best of intentions, but slowly fell down into madness. Because being a violent vigilante that kills criminals requires a few things in order to keep from going crazy.

If you're the Punisher, you just embrace the fact that you're a broken individual and that the only pleasure you can have is from killing criminals.

If you're an old school Pulp hero like the Spider or Shadow, you require strict mental discipline, people to help keep you grounded, and a strict rule against killing innocent people, especially cops.

Adrian Chase tried very hard to not be the former, but couldn't live up to the latter. During one issue, in order to escape capture, Adrian killed a police officer. According to the writer, this was intentional, and from that point on, the series was always going to end with Chase realizing how unstable he had become, culminating in Chase taking his own life rather than fall even further. If anything, Adrian Chase should have been the DC's gold standard for how NOT to be a superhero, and should have been brought up every now and then to showcase why the heroes were largely against Punisher-style characters and why not everyone is cut out to be a superhero.

Ares, you nailed perfectly why the Punisher will always be, to me, a villain, not even and anti-hero. He's a murderer, he knows it, he likes it, and he makes no effort to stop. I thought Adrian Chase came over as tragic, the more so for the build-up he got in Titans before he went over the line, and his attempts to be a good judge even after he became the Vigilante.

I don't agree that Punisher is a villain. Yeah he kills people but they're always scumbags who deserve it.