Jab’s Builds (Rapunzel! Flynn! Mother Gothel! Cassandra!)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Legion of Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5!)

Post by Woodclaw » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:23 am
Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:32 am
I like the idea of magic in a superhero setting, I hate the application of magic in more superhero stories.

Far too often, the writers use the presence of a magic-user in the book to allow for insanely complex no-win scenarios to take a half-dozen issues to set up and then get resolved in the last two pages with the magician pulling out an never-before-seen, reality-warping, plot device wrecking deus ex rectum.

The Latin deus ex machina literally means "god from the machine," as during the final scene of a lot of really bad Greek plays a mechanical device would lower a god, like Zeus, onto the stage and he'd fix everything with a wave of his hand. I call it deus ex rectum when modern writers pull a similar resolution straight outta their @?§€!
This is why both my Fantasy & Superhero 'verses use WILDLY different, specific Magic Rules, different from what regular comics does: viewtopic.php?p=17829#p17829

The problem is, comic book writers are often lazy (or on a deadline)- any kind of ruleset around how magic works requires a VERY strong central, editorial command.
And once again we go back to Sanderson's Laws of Magic.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Legion of Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5!)

Post by brothersale » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:16 am

Ares wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:13 am
I think if anything, I think comic book writers who set their stories in the future seem to forget that they're writing in a superhero setting. Sure, the tech is more advanced, and there's likely folks with superpowers, but it's the future of a comic book world. And comic book worlds have had magic as a major component to the settings for a long time. I mean, there's been a Sorcerer Supreme on Marvel Earth and the Wizard Shazam on DC Earth since before recorded history, it wouldn't really make much sense for the next 1000 years to be the one where they vanish.
To my knowledge all the future versions of marvel earth that haven't turned into post-apocalypic nightmares have had a Sorcerer supreme character, for example Earth-691: Krugarr, Earth-928: Strange and Earth-9997: Clea. Heck, Krugarr just proves the point that the role does not have to stay on earth past a certain point in time.

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Kinetix

Post by Jabroniville » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:22 am

ImageImageImageImageImage

KINETIX (Zoe Saugin)
Created By:
Tom McCraw, Mark Waid & Lee Moder
First Appearance: The Legion of Super-Heroes #66 (Jan. 1995)
Home Planet: Aleph
Origin of Powers: Searched out an Energy Pool
Eras: Post-Zero Hour Reboot Only
Relationships: Crush on Leviathan
Role: Bubbly Girl, Jean Grey Knock-Off
PL 9 (111)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+6)
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (Arcane Lore) 5 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 3 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Technology 3 (+4)

Advantages:
Equipment 10 (Legion Gear), Ranged Attack 4, Ritualist, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Animate Objects" Summon 4 (Extras: 4 Minions +4, Horde, Variable- Objects) (Flaws: Requires Objects, Concentration Duration) (24) -- [28]
  • AE: "Telekinesis" Move Object 9 (Feats: Precise) (19)
  • AE: "Snare With Objects" Snare 8 (Flaws: Requires Objects) (16)
  • AE: Transform (Objects to Objects) 4 (16)
  • AE: "Magical Blast" Blast 9 (18)
Equipment:
"Legion Gear"
"Telepathic Ear Plug" Comprehend 3 (Languages) (6)

"Legion Flight Ring"
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Vacuum, Pressure, Radiation, Suffocation 2) (7)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) (2)
Communication 5 (Flaws: Fifth Rank is only towards Legionnaires) (18)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Magic Blast +8 (+9 Ranged Damage, DC 24)
Snare +8 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Obsession (Lust for Power)

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 28 / Defenses: 12 (111)

-Kinetix, sporting the most '90s-style name in LOSH HISTORY, is an odd little part of Legion history, though she's become rather iconic to the Post-Zero Hour "Reboot" team. See, adding completely original members to a Legion reboot is a GREAT idea, as it shakes up the dynamic, and makes for some new types of situations. But in doing so, her creators just threw together a Jean Grey rip-off ("Redhead Telekinetic in a Green Costume") and made her kind of bubbly and annoying (and had her hair fly around of it's own accord- which is turning out to be a repeated trope in the DCU- Kinetix, Wave, Cyclone...), and then de-powered her, then made her an obsessive weirdo, then changed her form, then got rid of her.

-Zoe started lusting for power when she saved her own mother's life, and spent years exploring ways to get it. She found an energy pool that gave her Telekinesis, called herself "Kinetix", and joined the Legion's second set of draftees. She became best friends with Shrinking Violet, but got de-powered, THEN she got this weird story of being obsessed with gaining new powers, then gained MAGICAL might. Then she got depowered again, and turned into some giant brown chick whose job was to help speed up the evolutionary process of Earth. This was all very dumb and pointless, as it was obvious that the writers just didn't give a crap about the character all that much, and she never got a "Threeboot" version, thus becoming mostly lost to history, as Shikari, Gates & XS were far more popular "Reboot" Legionnaires. However, in Legion of Three Worlds, she gathered the energies of a dying world to gain supreme power (her long-held dream), but Superboy-Prime just happened to be IMMUNE to Magic now, and so he incinerated her. Which is a pretty ignominious end. They were practically just saying "Yeah, this character SUCKED".

-A low-pointed PL 9 (the Reboot Legionnaires seemed a fair bit less powerful in general, due to age, experience and seriousness deficiences), Kinetix was basically a TK-type heroine, but I don't think she had a Force Field. She could, however, alter the form of solid objects, turning them into giant steel traps or snaring cables and stuff like that, but she had to Concentrate to do it- not just bring them to life and set them loose. Since she got her power-set changed TWICE, it's a little tough to nail her down, but I went with the most-common Legionnaire version.

Her Magic Array looks a bit like this, from what I can gather from ComicVine:
Flight 6 (120 mph) [12]
Enhanced Strength 6 [10]
Life Support [10]
"Gravity Control" Affliction 10 (Strength; Impaired, Hindered & Vulnerable/Disabled, Defenseless & Immobile) (Extras: Extra Condition +2, Ranged) (Flaws: Instant Recovery, Limited Degree) (20) -- [21]
  • AE: Healing 8 (16)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!)

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:10 pm

Kinetix was interesting in that she was meant to be a reimagined version of one of the Champions of Lallor, a minor group of heroes in the Legions time that included people like Duplicate Boy. One of the Champions was a girl named Life Lass, who could imbue inanimate objects with "life", ezsentially allowing her to animate and control inanimate objects. When Kinetix first appeared, her abilities were more about that kind of animation, but evolved into more generic telekinesis over time.

During the reboot run, Zoe was actually a fun character, being an adventuring archeologist who was sweet, a bit of a flirt, but who also had a bit of a desire to gain more power. Its a shame later writers treated her the way they did, basically doing away with her because she wasn't a Classic Legionnaire.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!)

Post by Goldar » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:50 pm

During Amalgam, wasn't Zoey Phoenetix, a combo of her Kinetix self and Jean Grey Phoenix?

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:36 pm

What I could never figure out, is that if you wanted to add a cute redhead telekinetic to the team, why not use one of DC’s already established characters as a basis: Maxima of Almerac?

Okay, maybe you don’t want to add another Kryptonian-class flying brick to the team. So don’t go the direct heir of the Blood Royale of Almerac, but like, the Queen’s second cousin of something. That would explain why she had less potent powers that great-great-grandma.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!

Post by Woodclaw » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:50 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:36 pm
What I could never figure out, is that if you wanted to add a cute redhead telekinetic to the team, why not use one of DC’s already established characters as a basis: Maxima of Almerac?

Okay, maybe you don’t want to add another Kryptonian-class flying brick to the team. So don’t go the direct heir of the Blood Royale of Almerac, but like, the Queen’s second cousin of something. That would explain why she had less potent powers that great-great-grandma.

Image
Good question.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!

Post by MacynSnow » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:51 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:36 pm
What I could never figure out, is that if you wanted to add a cute redhead telekinetic to the team, why not use one of DC’s already established characters as a basis: Maxima of Almerac?

Okay, maybe you don’t want to add another Kryptonian-class flying brick to the team. So don’t go the direct heir of the Blood Royale of Almerac, but like, the Queen’s second cousin of something. That would explain why she had less potent powers that great-great-grandma.

Image
My only problem with this image are her boots.It's like she just grabbed a pair of rando boots without looking to see if they were the same length and no one wants to point it out to her....

As far as the Maxima legacy goes;the character could still be a direct decendant,just not have the same powers.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!)

Post by Batgirl III » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:05 pm

As far as the Maxima legacy goes;the character could still be a direct decendant,just not have the same powers.
The whole of Maxima’s society revolves around breeding and genetically engineering the “perfect” scion of the Blood Royal. Hence, Maxima’s desire to knock mismatched boots with Kal-El. It’d be weird to see a direct descendant with less power...

(As for the boots, it was the Eighties. Madonna dressed way weirder.)
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Re: Thunder

Post by Bladewind » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:52 pm

Jabroniville wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:48 am
Too bad, too, as I felt an additional Flying Brick to the team was an interesting dynamic, as well as a neat look into the history of a DC Universe affected by someone OTHER THAN SUPERMAN for once! I mean, Supes is great and all, but COME ON- the entire team worships him, half the guys share his powers, and he's got ancestors and crap- there's no Billy Batson, Wonder Woman or Batman legacies that last that long? I fart on that.

-For a costume, they could've maybe done better than Iron Fist & Billy Batson's female love child, but what can you do? It was the Archie Legion.

Love the first comment on CeCe - surprised that you didn't make any mention of her full name and its homage - Cecebeck

And that costume comment. Where do I send the bill for my monitor ! Coffee stains galore !!!!

As for a Maxima descendant - while really cool, wasn`t there a mention of the desire not to make too many legacies so as not to make the LSH justice League in SPAAAACE ?
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!)

Post by Woodclaw » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:54 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:05 pm
As far as the Maxima legacy goes;the character could still be a direct decendant,just not have the same powers.
The whole of Maxima’s society revolves around breeding and genetically engineering the “perfect” scion of the Blood Royal. Hence, Maxima’s desire to knock mismatched boots with Kal-El. It’d be weird to see a direct descendant with less power...

(As for the boots, it was the Eighties. Madonna dressed way weirder.)
For some reason I alwasy found that explnation kind of problematic, considering that Maxima was already able to replicate most of Superman's powers.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!)

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:16 pm

Making Kinetix a Maxima legacy would have been a bad move, IMO. There was already enough ties to Superman as is without adding another person to it. I actually liked the idea of her being an adventuring archeologist who got her powers via a magical artifact, as that's at least a bit more interesting than "I was born this way".

If anything, I just would have changed her hair color, since between her, Lightning Lad and Lass and Sun Boy, the Legion already has a pretty high volume of read-heads. Saturn Girl, Thunder and Supergirl/Andromeda were all blondes, Phantom Girl, Dawnstar and Shrinking Violet had black hair, Dream Girl, Princess Projectra and the White Witch had white hair, and I think Triplicate Girl was the only one on the team with brown hair. The team could honestly have used a few more regular brunets, or hell, go the opposite direction and make her hair something weird like purple or green.

I do understand the idea to keep the Legion from being just "The Justice League of the 30th Century", and from what I understand DC did just that, with a 31st Century Justice League to keep those legacies alive. Still, I don't know that there needed to be a Justice League at that point in the future. It's not like the Knights of the Round Table or Robin Hood's Merry Men survived for thousands of years. Those groups where heroes for their time, and eventually they broke up. There's no reason that the Justice League might not have just formally disbanded when the United Planets were formed and it seemed like a new age of peace was upon the galaxy. They could still be honored in the history books and have their own museum, but just not be an active force. If anything, I think Bruce Wayne would prefer the Batman legacy not really extend 1,000 years in the future, since it would mean that there was still a need for someone like Batman that long after he was dead.

At the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing the Legion embrace a few more legacies. The idea of someone with the Power of Shazam on the team was a good one, but the execution was pretty sloppy IMO, as you could have simply had some new threat arise and within the Rock of Eternity, either Shazam or Billy chooses a new active champion. Likewise, I think for my own setting, I'd make Andromeda someone from Modern Themyscria, an Amazon rather than a Daxamite or Kryptonian, who was brought on as more permanent muscle. She could have the same kind of personality as SW6 Andromeda, including the Brainiac romance, but have something more unique about her. Plus the name would fit better given the ties to Greek mythology.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!)

Post by Bladewind » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:38 pm

Ares wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:16 pm
Likewise, I think for my own setting, I'd make Andromeda someone from Modern Themyscria, an Amazon rather than a Daxamite or Kryptonian, who was brought on as more permanent muscle. She could have the same kind of personality as SW6 Andromeda, including the Brainiac romance, but have something more unique about her. Plus the name would fit better given the ties to Greek mythology.
That's pretty nifty as ideas go. Have the xenophobia that she initially struggled with be translated to men, or left as is as she was from an isolated island.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Substitute Heroes! Thunder! Brainiac 5! White Witch!)

Post by Ares » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:22 pm

Bladewind wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:38 pm
Ares wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:16 pm
Likewise, I think for my own setting, I'd make Andromeda someone from Modern Themyscria, an Amazon rather than a Daxamite or Kryptonian, who was brought on as more permanent muscle. She could have the same kind of personality as SW6 Andromeda, including the Brainiac romance, but have something more unique about her. Plus the name would fit better given the ties to Greek mythology.
That's pretty nifty as ideas go. Have the xenophobia that she initially struggled with be translated to men, or left as is as she was from an isolated island.
Part of me would like to use the 30th century to change up a few things that modern DC seems to skirt with but never change. Like, maybe Atlantis and Themyscria are both on the Earth Government Planetary Council, and over time have actually, you know, changed. Have Atlantis be publicly known as one of the great places of magical training, while also maybe being a huge tourist location. Likewise, (and this would likely really piss off the SJWs), but I'd have Amazon society have changed over the last 500 years or so, as they're no longer isolationist, they've opened their island to the rest of the world, and offer their way of life to everyone. The Amazons are no longer immortal and actually have men living on the island as full Amazonian citizens, practicing the Amazon philosophy and their way of life. They got rid of the monarchy, with a ruling council of elected representatives with one of their number being elected to a leadership position with some genuine authority. Because to me, it'd be a big tragedy if, after Diana goes out into the world to save it and spread ideals of peace, tolerance, equality and excellence, that the Amazons don't change themselves. It's something I mention at the end of this post.

My own headcanon about Amazons also goes back to their older roots where Diana wasn't magically gifted with power from the gods to be greater than the other Amazons, but rather that all of the Amazons have some degree of superhuman ability through training. I would alter things a little tho, with the idea that the reasons Amazons can train to get superhuman strength or speed (whereas Batman can't) is because the island actually has a temple devoted to each god or goddess where an Amazon can go to train. During the training process, the initiate undergoes a ritual where the god or goddess grants them a magical boon that essentially allows them superhuman growth in a skill or physical ability the god/dess shares, but only in direct relation to the effort given to train said ability.

So, if you had someone who wanted to train at the Temple of Hercules, they could do so, and after they prove their dedication, they undergo a ritual where Hercules will literally come down from Olympus and go "I have seen the strength of your conviction. I grant you my boon so that your physical strength will match the strength within thy heart." After that, the person won't gain any innate strength boost, but now whatever training they do to increase their strength and durability will not be limited to their normal human biology. They can attain superhuman strength if they work hard on it.

Each temple would have several Masters who have, well, mastered the teachings and training methods of their own temple. On the island there would be several Amazons who have mastered the teachings of several temples. Wonder Woman would have been the first Amazon to master the teachings of every temple, which is the sole reason for her amazing abilities. Donna Troy would go on to become the second Amazon to achieve this, and so on.

Andromeda would be one of the few Amazons who likewise mastered all of the temples, and thus earned her spot on the Legion.

I would also play with the idea of their being basically a radical group of Amazons who feel that, by allowing men, joining the outside world and changing to adapt with the times, they've lost their way. So they're going to try to "Make Themyscria Pure" again by kicking out all of the men and return things to the good old days, and basically be parodies of the worst kind of Amazon portrayals we've seen over the years. Andromeda would be the daughter of the leader of said group, but not be a member of the organization itself, though her beliefs are partially shaped by said mom. So her struggle would initially be that thing a lot of teenagers have to do when they're exposed to the larger world, having to make their own decisions and step out of their parents prejudices.

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Supergirl

Post by Jabroniville » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:35 pm

ImageImageImageImageImageImage

SUPERGIRL (Linda Danvers, aka Kara Zor-El)
Created By:
Otto Binder & Curt Swan
First Appearance: Superman #123 (Aug. 1958)
Role: Super-Heavyweight Fighter, Flying Brick
PL 15 (344)
STRENGTH
18 STAMINA 16 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Aerobatics 7 (+11)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+11)
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (Animal Handling) 7 (+11)
Expertise (Acting) 2 (+5)
Expertise (Reporter) 3 (+5)
Insight 4 (+6)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 6 (+9)
Persuasion 4 (+7)
Ranged Combat (Heat Vision/Freeze Breath) 2 (+11)
Technology 2 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Beginner's Luck, Diehard, Equipment 10 (Legion Gear), Evasion, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Initiative, Jack-of-All-Trades, Last Stand, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 5, Set-Up, Takedown, Teamwork, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"More Powerful Than a Speeding Locomotive" Power-Lifting 12 (25,000,000 tons) [12]
"The Girl of Steel" Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 19) [21]
Immunity 10 (Life Support) [10]

"Heat Beam" Damage 15 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Line +2) (45) -- [50]
  • AE: "Heat Vision" Blast 16 (Feats: Extended Reach 2) (34)
  • AE: "Freeze Breath" Affliction 14 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Extras: Ranged, Extra Condition) (42)
  • AE: "Freeze Cone" Affliction 14 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone, Extra Condition) (42)
  • AE: "Ground Pound" Affliction 14 (Strength/Athletics; Hindered & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Extra Condition) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Both Must Be Grounded, Instant Recovery) (28)
  • AE: "Super-Breath" Affliction 14 (Strength/Athletics; Hindered & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2, Extra Condition) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Both Must Be Grounded, Instant Recovery) Linked to Move Object 11 (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2) (Flaws: Touch Range) (36)
"Faster Than a Speeding Bullet"
Flight 18 (500,000 mph) (Feats: Dynamic) (37) -- [41]
  • Dynamic AE: Quickness 16 (Feats: Dynamic) (17)
  • Dynamic AE: Speed 15 (64,000 mph) (Feats: Dynamic) (16)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) [2]

Senses 21 (Extended Vision & Hearing 4, Analytical, Infra, Ultra & Microvision 4, Vision Penetrates Concealment, Ultra-Hearing) [21]

Equipment:
"Legion Gear"
"Telepathic Ear Plug" Comprehend 3 (Languages) (6)

"Legion Flight Ring"
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Vacuum, Pressure, Radiation, Suffocation 2) (7)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) (2)
Communication 5 (Flaws: Fifth Rank is only towards Legionnaires) (18)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+18 Damage, DC 32)
Heat Vision +11 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Heat Beam +15 Area (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Freeze Breath +11 (+14 Ranged Affliction, DC 24)
Freeze Cone/Ground Pound +14 Area (+14 Affliction, DC 24)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +18 (+10 Impervious), Fortitude +15, Will +10

Complications:
Secret (Linda Danvers)
Motivation (Truth, Justice & The American Way)
Power Loss/Vulnerable (Kryptonite)- Supergirl will lose all of her powers, and soon begin to die, if exposed to Kryptonite, the element of her dead homeworld.
Power Loss/Vulnerable (Red Sun Radiation)- Earth's Yellow Sun empowers Supergirl- without it, she will soon lose her powers. Red Sun-based energies will do much more damage to her. Typically, Brainiac-5 will give her some kind of protection against this weakness.
Power Loss (X-Ray Vision)- Kryptonian X-Ray Vision cannot penetrate lead.
Responsibility (Human Life)- Kara believes deeply that all life is important.

Total: Abilities: 122 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 30 / Powers: 157 / Defenses: 15 (344)

-Pre-Crisis Kara Zor-El was a pretty successful character, but obviously a weak link in the Superman Family of titles, never doing quite as well as the main man or his childhood self (this is part of why it was so easy to kill her off in the Crisis- she had no solo book at the time). Still, she was one of the top female characters in comics history (pretty easily outracing Mary Marvel- who was created a decade earlier by the same writer), and went on to spend time with Superboy (the younger version of her cousin who she knew in HER present-time, which is certainly an odd way to go about doing stories) and the Legion of Super-Heroes, where she started dating Brainac-5. With lots of girl-themed stuff (multiple boyfriend/love interests, a kitty, a FLYING HORSE aka girl fangasm who also happened to turn into a cowboy she fell in love with, aka ANOTHER girl fantasy), her fall from continuity messed up the Legion too, but not as much as Superboy's did. Instead, they had to just make Brainiac-5 an always-single douche, and replace Kara in "old" stories with Laurel Gand, their new Supergirl-class character.

-Pre-Crisis Supergirl is pretty much where Superboy is in power- though the female Kryptonians are usually weaker than the males, which only really makes sense if you assume that the strength difference between males and females among humans is proportionate in Kryptonians. Never mind the fact that both are far stronger than people of their size ever possibly could be, so muscle mass clearly shouldn't matter so much. However, she makes the same PL because her Heat Vision Area Effect is the same, and she costs a bit more since a teenage Linda Danvers has more Skills than a teenage Clark Kent does- being a "Girl's Book", Supergirl featured many stories about her Barbie-like job switching between vet, doctor, etc. She's at the same strength tier as Superboy, way more powerful than most heroes ever get.

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