Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Robin Hood! The Sheriff! Prince John! The Rescuers!)

Post by Jabroniville »

I remember Batgirl III being annoyed that Princess Eilonwy never gets to be in "Disney Princess" group pics. I had to tell her that Disney's pretty strict on that- even the Frozen sisters aren't technically members (though of course they're in Wreck It Ralph 2, and ain't THAT gonna piss people off when they go to see Princesses and find out it's the standard Disney Lying Trailer and it's mostly about Gal Gadot's Sexy Car-Chase Girl character). Megara, Nancy Tremaine and Giselle from Enchanted are TECHNICALLY Princesses in Disney Movies, too, but they don't count, either.

I don't like Eilonwy's chances, though- The Black Cauldron is considered kind of an Old Shame by Disney, and they really drag their asses on releasing it. Never mind the fact that it's pretty clear they want Attractive, Dress-Wearing People as Official Princesses, not young girls. Merida & Snow White are about as young-looking as they'll get.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Robin Hood! The Sheriff! Prince John! The Rescuers!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:01 am I remember Batgirl III being annoyed that Princess Eilonwy never gets to be in "Disney Princess" group pics. I had to tell her that Disney's pretty strict on that- even the Frozen sisters aren't technically members (though of course they're in Wreck It Ralph 2, and ain't THAT gonna piss people off when they go to see Princesses and find out it's the standard Disney Lying Trailer and it's mostly about Gal Gadot's Sexy Car-Chase Girl character). Megara, Nancy Tremaine and Giselle from Enchanted are TECHNICALLY Princesses in Disney Movies, too, but they don't count, either.

I don't like Eilonwy's chances, though- The Black Cauldron is considered kind of an Old Shame by Disney, and they really drag their asses on releasing it. Never mind the fact that it's pretty clear they want Attractive, Dress-Wearing People as Official Princesses, not young girls. Merida & Snow White are about as young-looking as they'll get.
The other problem being that Eilonwy is from an established canon owned by other people, while most Disney stuff is either original creations or their own tweak on public domain characters like old folk tales, mythology, etc. Making Eilonwy an official Disney Princess would likely mean having to shell out cash to whomever owns the Prydain rights, and Disney is unlikely to do that. Why promote someone from their overall least popular animated film who they're only really renting, when they can promote characters they wholly own from more popular works?
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Robin Hood! The Sheriff! Prince John! The Rescuers!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

I loved the Prydain books as a kid (particularly the High King) but I had never actually seen the Black Cauldron until this past winter.


So I watched it on Hulu and it wasn't very good. There are bits that work, but overall it just didn't.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Prince John! The Rescuers! Tod & Copper! Black Cauldron!)

Post by MacynSnow »

What i can't wait to comment on is The Great Mouse Detective. As a RABID Holmesian(don't get me started on that Elementary b.s. that was on CBS for a while),i have a LONG comment prepared for this one...:)
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Prince John! The Rescuers! Tod & Copper! Black Cauldron!)

Post by catsi563 »

Call me crazier then normal but Ive always been a Black Cauldron fan. Saw it when it first came out and it still entertains to this day flaws and all.

Yeah Gurgy drove me nuts but in the end the little bastard redeemed himself with a selfless act that he had no reason to engage in save to help his friend.


All in all the movie was an enjoyable one for me.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Prince John! The Rescuers! Tod & Copper! Black Cauldron!)

Post by kirinke »

MacynSnow wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:55 pm What i can't wait to comment on is The Great Mouse Detective. As a RABID Holmesian(don't get me started on that Elementary b.s. that was on CBS for a while),i have a LONG comment prepared for this one...:)
The Sherlock (modern era, set in London version) series was pretty fun, at least in my opinion and I've never been more than a casual Holmes fan at best.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Prince John! The Rescuers! Tod & Copper! Black Cauldron!)

Post by MacynSnow »

I thought Sherlock was a nice take on it,as well(though i could've done without the whole 'Watson's Wife was a former Spy' bit).My personal favorite was the Whole twist on Hound of the Baskerville's by making it a Military thing...
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Prince John! The Rescuers! Tod & Copper! Black Cauldron!)

Post by kirinke »

I remember that! The other twist was it was all a kind of hallucination brought on by trauma.
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Jabroniville
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Tron

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

TRON (1982):
Written by:
Steve Lisberger & Bonnie MacBird

-Tron is now famous for ahead-of-its-time graphics, but I never saw it until I was an adult, and I barely remember anything from it except for the concept (people going into a computer), and recognizing David Warner as the villain. Disney was actually a part of this project from very early on, as Steve Lisburger formulated the concept after watching Pong games in the late 1970s, and Disney execs were intrigued by the computer graphics. In it, a computer programmer attempts to hack his old company, but is prevented by the now-sentient Master Control Program, which soon digitizes him into the computer mainframe itself. His friend creates a "Tron" program to fight the MCP, and Tron soon forms in the computer and helps out our hero.

Reception & Cultural Impact: Like a lot of things that are now ubiquitous in pop culture... this one took a while to catch on. I mean, it was a SUCCESS, but hardly a hit- making $33 million at the box office. It was only with time that the movie became parodied constantly (the light cycle sequence in particular is both famous and easily-parodied by multiple sources), and the special effects got praised (John Lasseter: "Without Tron, there is no Toy Story"). Disney actually took YEARS to capitalize on the film's popularity, only releasing a sequel in 2010 (TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS LATER), and an animated series around then. Tron is, fittingly, much like Disney's Tomorrowland- a look into the future that is now adorably dated, what with the obvious "70s/80s Atmosphere" with all the neon lights and black backgrounds. Disney has made a few efforts to set off a Tron franchise, what with the sequel and TV series, as well as a rollercoaster at Disneyland Shanghai, but ultimately it's mostly stalled-out. Part of the issue is the CHARACTERS aren't really that memorable. I think Master Control is the only one people really recognize. Tron: Legacy was a box office success, but a critical failure, and Disney hasn't attempted to replicate it since (likely realizing that the $400 box office is unlikely to be duplicated)- Tron 3 has been in development hell for years.

-No builds, unfortunately. I remember way too little about this one, and the Wikis aren't useful.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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The Great Mouse Detective

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THE GREAT MOUSE DETECTIVE (1986):
Written by:
Eve Titus (original books), Vance Gerry, Peter Young, Steve Ulett, John Musker & Ron Clements

-The whole concept behind this one is a bit odd, and it's based off of some children's book I've never heard of- basically mouse versions of Sherlock Holmes & Watson, and a rat Moriarty. And Basil lives right below Sherlock himself. God bless Public Domain stuff, I guess. The animation is more solid than most of the Disney stuff of the '60s and '70s, as they'd finally gotten out of their "Scratchy Outlines" phase and started using computers as well- the clocktower fight is VERY obviously drawn from computers (they actually filmed computers moving the clockwork stuff around, THEN drew over what the computer had, so it still looks animation-y instead of like obvious CGI).

I found it to be a very solid, but not great movie. All the voicework and characterization was tight, and I got the overall story and the imagery too- the highlight is of course Vincent Price as Ratigan. Once again, they prove that the most memorable part of most Disney movies is the villain- Price doesn't even do his standard "Vincent Price Voice", which helps, since Ratigan is more boisterous most of the time, before turning sinister when he's angry. His best moment is when Basil calls him a "Sewer Rat" while Ratigan is smirking and holding a watch, and Ratigan just stops dead, holds the smile while his eyes narrow, and SNAPS the watch's lid shut without moving any other part of his body. Neat little character work there.

The clocktower fight is awesome as well, and a total homage to Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro (just like that one Batman: TAS episode with The Clock King). I liked it when Ratigan just went full-bore "Wild Animal" and nearly tore Basil apart. The Furry Fandom has attached itself to one particular scene, which I find funny more because it serves nothing other than a fanservicey (kinda- I ain't into mice chicks anymore... not since Gadget Hackenwrench broke my heart) backdrop to some meandering plot stuff (ie. the villains need to lure Basil somewhere).

Reception & Cultural Impact:
-The movie did quite well in theatres, but didn't make as much as An American Tail, released that year by Don Bluth, an ex-Disney animator who was now becoming a real thorn in Disney's side, as he was out-Disneying them. However, it is actually VASTLY important to the company, and pop culture as a whole, for reasons of economics. While the film itself hasn't been that impactful, it is actually considered as having saved Disney's Full-Length Features division, after the disappointment that was The Black Cauldron. It was this movie that convinced Katzenberg & Eisner to give the okay to some Broadway producers and some of their own animators for The Little Mermaid, and considering what THAT movie did for Disney, we owe The Great Mouse Detective a huge debt.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tron

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:50 am Image

TRON (1982):
Written by:
Steve Lisberger & Bonnie MacBird
I quite liked the original Tron film, put really didn't care for Tron Legacy. However, the animated series Tron Uprising was amazing, basically Batman Beyond with Tron characters, and Tron having a bitching updated white outfit. Shame that never got a second season.
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Jabroniville
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Basil

Post by Jabroniville »

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BASIL OF BAKER STREET
Played By:
Barry Ingham
Role: The Detective, Sherlock Holmes Expy, Rude Hero
PL 6 (109)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+8)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Criminals) 5 (+10)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+9)
Insight 2 (+7)
Investigation 10 (+15)
Perception 7 (+12)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Technology 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Assessment, Benefit (Wealth- Quite Well-Off), Diehard, Equipment (Detective's Gear), Improved Disarm, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 2, Ranged Attack 3, Tracking

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Stopping Crime)
Enemy (Ratigan)- Ratigan & Basil have encountered each other many times, though Ratigan has always eluded the detective.
Reputation (Jerk)- Basil is not a "People Person", and frequently annoys or insults people without even meaning to. He has little concern for the needs or wants of others.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 9 (109)

-Basil is pretty much exactly like Sherlock Holmes- bad with people; good with mysteries. He generally lacks sympathy and humanity (or whatever that is for a mouse), until the very end of the film, where he starts to appreciate both Dawson and the young Olivia (the audience stand-in). Unlike the characters of The Rescuers or other films where small thing are common, Basil & Company are pretty limited to fighting amongst creatures of their own kind and/or size, and thus don't need advanced Shrinking ranks- other things will instead be upgraded to Growth-having Giants in their world.

About the Performer: Barry Ingham was a prolific TV actor in his native England, though rather unknown elsewhere.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Prince John! The Rescuers! Tod & Copper! Black Cauldron!)

Post by Arkrite »

I've always wondered if the name Basil was a reference to Basil Rathbone who played Sherlock in film and on the radio in the 1940's.

I'm pretty confidant the "Watson is a bumbling idiot" idea in popular culture is due to the character's portrayal in that same series by Nigel Bruce... who looks surprisingly similar to Basil's companion...

I love old radio shows. Sue me ;~)
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Re: Tron

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:50 am Image

TRON (1982):
Written by:
Steve Lisberger & Bonnie MacBird

-Tron is now famous for ahead-of-its-time graphics, but I never saw it until I was an adult, and I barely remember anything from it except for the concept (people going into a computer), and recognizing David Warner as the villain. Disney was actually a part of this project from very early on, as Steve Lisburger formulated the concept after watching Pong games in the late 1970s, and Disney execs were intrigued by the computer graphics. In it, a computer programmer attempts to hack his old company, but is prevented by the now-sentient Master Control Program, which soon digitizes him into the computer mainframe itself. His friend creates a "Tron" program to fight the MCP, and Tron soon forms in the computer and helps out our hero.

Reception & Cultural Impact: Like a lot of things that are now ubiquitous in pop culture... this one took a while to catch on. I mean, it was a SUCCESS, but hardly a hit- making $33 million at the box office. It was only with time that the movie became parodied constantly (the light cycle sequence in particular is both famous and easily-parodied by multiple sources), and the special effects got praised (John Lasseter: "Without Tron, there is no Toy Story"). Disney actually took YEARS to capitalize on the film's popularity, only releasing a sequel in 2010 (TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS LATER), and an animated series around then. Tron is, fittingly, much like Disney's Tomorrowland- a look into the future that is now adorably dated, what with the obvious "70s/80s Atmosphere" with all the neon lights and black backgrounds. Disney has made a few efforts to set off a Tron franchise, what with the sequel and TV series, as well as a rollercoaster at Disneyland Shanghai, but ultimately it's mostly stalled-out. Part of the issue is the CHARACTERS aren't really that memorable. I think Master Control is the only one people really recognize. Tron: Legacy was a box office success, but a critical failure, and Disney hasn't attempted to replicate it since (likely realizing that the $400 box office is unlikely to be duplicated)- Tron 3 has been in development hell for years.

-No builds, unfortunately. I remember way too little about this one, and the Wikis aren't useful.
What I remember most is that the two secondary leads, Brice Boxleitner (Alan/Tron) and Cindy Morgan (Lora/Yuri), would end up playing opposite each other again a few years later in "Bring 'Em Back Alive".
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Jabroniville
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Dawson

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

DAVID Q. DAWSON
Played By:
Val Bettin
Role: The Sidekick, Dr. Watson Expy, Chubby Guy
PL 3 (61), PL 5 (61) Defenses
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+4)
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (Military) 2 (+5)
Insight 2 (+4)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 3 (+5)
Persuasion 3 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+3)
Treatment 5 (+8)

Advantages:
Benefit (Wealth- Quite Well-Off), Ranged Attack 2

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +2, Fortitude +3, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Stopping Crime)- Dawson is a surgeon just home from Afghanistan, but gets caught up in the criminal reign of Ratigan and soon becomes Basil's ally.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 8 (61)

-Dawson, much like Mr. Watson, is generally more of a biographer/sidekick that has things explained to him. He's a jolly, chubby fellow, and is generally more pleasant than Basil is. His obesity and funny appearance is used for laughs, especially when he gets drunk off of a spiked drink and starts dancing with the Sexy Mouse Chorus Girls (in a scene that's basically out of nowhere- it's the only scene in the movie featuring the Mousy Tramp Girl that inspired so many Furries). He's really not an elite fighter or anything, and is much worse than Basil at nearly everything, but has his moments.

About the Performer: Val Bettin is a voiceover guy, known for using an English accent, despite being American. Dawson is probably his biggest role, though he's been in stuff like W.I.T.C.H. and was the Sultan in the Aladdin sequels.
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