Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Jabroniville
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Thunderbird (Shaara)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THUNDERBIRD III (Neal Shaara)
Created By:
Chris Claremont & Leinil Francis Yu
First Appearance: X-Men #100 (May 2000)
Role: The Scrappy, Flying Blaster
Country of Origin: India
Group Affiliations: The X-Men, X-Corporation
PL 9 (134)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills: 
Acrobatics 3 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+7)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Current Events/Pop Culture) 3 (+4)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Perception 4 (+5)
Persuasion 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Blasts) 3 (+8)
Vehicles 4 (+6)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, Benefit 2 (Wealth), Defensive Attack, Equipment (X-Men Uniform- Toughness +1), Evasion, Precise Attack (Ranged/Cover), Ranged Attack 3, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Plasma Generation" 
Blast 10 (Feats: Improved Critical 2, Split) (Extras: Penetrating) (33) -- [35]
  • AE: Dazzle (Visuals) 10 (20)
  • AE: Plasma Aura 8 (32)
Flight 9 (1,000 mph) [18]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Blast +8 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Dazzle +8 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Plasma Aura +7 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3 (+4 Uniform), Fortitude +6, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Psylocke, Omega Sentinel, Lifeguard)- For someone so sucky, Neal sure gets around.
Responsibility (Great Power/Great Responsibility)- Neal is extra-careful with his Plasma Generation, as it may start fires or maim people.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 53 / Defenses: 16 (134)

Neal Shaara- Most Boring X-Man Ever:
-Thunderbird III... man, this guy sucks. See, an Indian superhero was a VERY good idea- it's a place with a billion people in it, so it's kind of weird that they didn't get one of the "all corners of the globe" X-Men until Chris Claremont's big return to X-verse. Unfortunately, they saddled him with horribly generic powers (just a Blaster, a lesser version of Sunfire too), a lame personality (rich boy who's nonetheless super good and noble), and a name that both makes zero sense (he has plasma powers and his name is THUNDERBIRD), and is an homage to a character he's never even met (and were both Apaches, so it's not like he was inspired, unless he misinterpreted the term "Indian").
So the fans sure didn't like him. Claremont seemed to, though (funny how that always happens with him), trotting him out to various books he was working on, when literally nobody else in comics wanted to touch the guy.

-Thunderbird appears quickly with an X-team, Claremont having decided that there was a "time skip" leading up to his run, and that Neal Shaara had joined the team in the interim. He's the son of a wealthy Indian family who'd been captured by Bastion along with his girlfriend Karima, and the pair were set to be turned into Prime Sentinels. Neal had the unlikely "late-developing mutant powers" thing happen, and he burned his way free, though his brother died in the process. He fled (Karima became "Omega Sentinel" a bit later), joining the X-Men when family friend Moira MacTaggert introduced them. So a total rank amateur with his powers joins the X-Men immediately, and takes the name of a character he's never even met.

-Claremont did this weird thing where he decided the character was awesome, but didn't really show him doing awesome THINGS, and quickly had him hook up with his teammate Psylocke (thus killing the Archangel relationship that nobody would really miss anyway- though Neal was openly flirting with Betsy IN FRONT of Warren, which is pretty cold). A big running theme is his uncontrollable powers (like, maybe join a trainee squad?), and his unwillingness to use them on living beings.

Neal Goes X-Treme, Then Disappears:
-When Claremont was run out of the main two X-Men books on a rail, he was given X-Treme X-Men to play with, sort of as a peace gesture. Marvel gave him SOME credit, but essentially (and cleverly) kept him away from the stuff they REALLY wanted, and so he had his own little world that didn't have to affect anyone else's stuff. So his beloved Sage, his Thunderbird, and Psylocke, Rogue & Storm all ended up on that book, leaving them "off-limits" to the other X-Books, a move that seemed to make sense at the time, but had the nasty side effect of rendering them all in "limbo" for ages, essentially freezing their characterization in ice.

-Psylocke is killed due to an editorial issue (she was supposed to be dead for an issue or two, but Claremont had the bad timing to do this RIGHT as Joe Quesada introduced his "Nobody is allowed to come back from the dead, ever" edict, which held for a few years), leaving Thunderbird both grief-stricken, and without any plot to follow for a while. He eventually started a relationship with new recruit, Lifeguard. The two eventually left the team to search for her brother, Slipstream. And that... was the absolute end of Neal Shaara's character.

-See, without CLAREMONT to care for him, NOBODY did. He joined the "X-Corporation", a very, VERY short-lived concept that was basically "so, all the mutants we're not currently using are working in offices around the world, loyal to Xavier... which never amounted to anything because Grant Morrison wiped it out. And since Thunderbird III sucked, no OTHER writers wanted to use him, and so he utterly vanished. Like, it's hard to think of ANY X-Man who's had less of an effect on the team and its history as this guy- his last mention was after M-DAY, for God's sake (it was announced he'd kept his powers- that's it).

The Problem With Neal Shaara:
-It brings to mind just WHY he's so bad. It's not as if Claremont did his USUAL thing, where he power-geeks the crap out of his favorite and makes everyone else look like idiots. He does that with most of the FEMALE characters he likes, but Neal was just an "Uncontrolled Power" guy. Which is actually a SOLID thing, except his powers never seemed powerful enough to be THAT dangerous, and it was kind of inappropriate for an X-Man to be so low-end like that. It's an odd case where he tried to hard to NOT Power-Geek that he went the opposite direction, making him pretty lame.

-That his characterization is largely unclear from most everything I've read (his personality seems to be "Ladies' Man", since he's been with three attractive women in quick succession) doesn't help, nor does the fact that his rich-guy backstory fails to elicit much sympathy. I mean, there are worse X-Men, but at least Maggott sucks in an INTERESTING WAY- Thunderbird III really just feels like the most "bleh" character imaginable, and that Claremont invented him just because he wanted a new guy, or had an old idea that never saw fruition because he was drummed out of the X-Books years earlier. I really don't know what the POINT of him was, which might be the most damning thing about the character.

Thunderbird's Powers:
-T-Bird's just a Blaster through and through. He's very fast and rather defensible for a Blaster, but he lacks a few notable abilities (namely Power Attack) because he's so afraid of killing someone with his power. He's EXTRAORDINARILY weak in Close, and is PL 9 at Range.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
MacynSnow
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! T-Ray! Thundersword! Tuatara! Topaz!)

Post by MacynSnow »

If Neal had maybe been Given a Slightly Different Power Set(Sonic or Lightning Generation),the Code name would fit better. As for personality,they could've made him more of a Tool or a slight Douchbag(his Open attempts to take Betsy away from Warren RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE MAN would show either trait) and it would make a more memorable character.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! T-Ray! Thundersword! Tuatara! Topaz!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Neal Shaara's biggest flaw is that he's an aggressively mediocre character in a sub-universe of Marvel Comics that has hundreds of characters in it already. For crissake, when Marvel Editorial decided to have on single massive kill off to clean house and get rid off the excess X-Book character population they were still left with some three-hundred-plus mutants, 198 of which were named!

Shaara was simply never given enough to do for the readers to ever care about. He was just... There. We had no reason to dislike him, we had no reason to like him. He was just... Meh.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! T-Ray! Thundersword! Tuatara! Topaz!)

Post by greycrusader »

And that should have been Buffy the Vampire Slayer, of course. Yeah, I vaguely remember that other book too. I'm not sure Marvel understood the difference between capitalizing on a trend vs. put out shoddy imitation material for a cash grab.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! T-Ray! Thundersword! Tuatara! Topaz!)

Post by Batgirl III »

greycrusader wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:29 am And that should have been Buffy the Vampire Slayer, of course. Yeah, I vaguely remember that other book too. I'm not sure Marvel understood the difference between capitalizing on a trend vs. put out shoddy imitation material for a cash grab.
Well, she was a vampire in one episode...

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kirinke
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! T-Ray! Thundersword! Tuatara! Topaz!)

Post by kirinke »

That one was a dream-sequence sort of.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! T-Ray! Thundersword! Tuatara! Topaz!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Still canon!
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! T-Ray! Thundersword! Tuatara! Topaz!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Batgirl III wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:02 am Neal Shaara's biggest flaw is that he's an aggressively mediocre character in a sub-universe of Marvel Comics that has hundreds of characters in it already. For crissake, when Marvel Editorial decided to have on single massive kill off to clean house and get rid off the excess X-Book character population they were still left with some three-hundred-plus mutants, 198 of which were named!

Shaara was simply never given enough to do for the readers to ever care about. He was just... There. We had no reason to dislike him, we had no reason to like him. He was just... Meh.
Yeah, I had the damndest time explaining the "worst X-Man ever" rep with him, and ultimately had the same conclusion. He doesn't SUCK... he's just this nothing guy. Almost worse than a Maggott, who actively sucks. At least Maggott ain't BORING.
Jabroniville
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The Time-Master

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE TIME-MASTER (Professor Elias Weems)
Created By:
Stan Lee, Larry Lieber & Don Heck
First Appearance: Tales to Astonish #43 (May 1963)
Role: One-Off Scientist

-Your classic "Half-Assed One-Off Stan Lee" script, this Pym-related story featured a scientist who wanted to "Show Them All!" after being forced into mandatory retirement at 65 (that's funny- that's Junkman's exact origin in Astro City!). He builds an "Aging Ray" that turns people elderly, doing so to Ant-Man, defeating the hero with an overturned flower pot (Hank Pym, folks). However, when Weems accidentally ages his own GRANDSON with an errant blast (which is trained on throngs of New Yorkers), he gives up, and Pym reverses the ray to undo the Time-Master's work. His own testimony lets the man get off with no charges (!!), and the man's boss, recognizing his genius, hires him back (!!). The character has never reappeared, and his extremely dangerous weapon never re-used as far as I can tell.

-This just reminds me further of the old poster "Pamela Isley" from the Atomic Think Tank, who bailed shortly after 3rd Edition came out. She REALLY wanted there to be a "Comeliness" stat, and REALLY hated that you couldn't build an Aging Ray with 2e's rules. 3rd Edition allows it plenty (just a Transformation-themed Affliction, possibly linked to Weaken Stamina or Strength), but alas, I've not seen her in years.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! Tuatara! Topaz! Thunderbird!)

Post by Batgirl III »

It’s been a long while since I’ve even glanced at M&M2e materials... But wouldn’t Drain have worked?
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! Tuatara! Topaz! Thunderbird!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Batgirl III wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:40 am It’s been a long while since I’ve even glanced at M&M2e materials... But wouldn’t Drain have worked?
A huge part of the issue was a lack of reflecting all the effects of aging. Like, appearance, health, how people treated you, etc. The "Comeliness" issue, again. I woulda just gone Drain/Morph Attack, but I think she wanted more.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! Tuatara! Topaz! Thunderbird!)

Post by Batgirl III »

D&D 3.x's aging effects were a reduction in Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution; with a boost to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. To make a M&M Effect that reflects the way "aging rays" usually work in comic books and other action-adventure genres (I'm thinking explicitly of that one G.I. Joe episode) I'd probably just have it reduce Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and Charisma without any boosts to Intelligence and Wisdom.

If you had wanted to be really pedantic and have a mechanical appearance change, then you could attach Morph too.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! Tuatara! Topaz! Thunderbird!)

Post by Jabroniville »

And of course, all of that is just "Affliction" now. You can turn a dude into a FROG with that; never mind a senior.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Toad! Tuatara! Topaz! Thunderbird!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:35 am And of course, all of that is just "Affliction" now. You can turn a dude into a FROG with that; never mind a senior.
And yet, I still have a devil of a time building a Shrink Ray.
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Jabroniville
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The Tumbler

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE TUMBLER (John Robert Keane)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Tales of Suspense #83 (Nov. 1966)
Role: Jobber Villain
Group Affiliations: The Secret Empire
PL 7 (85)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 8 (+14)
Athletics 7 (+9)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+4)
Investigation 2 (+2)
Perception 3 (+3)

Advantages: 
Agile Feint, Defensive Attack, Improved Trip, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Martial Artist" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +2

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 12 (85)

-The Tumbler is a classic "Half-Assed Silver Age Tale" type of character- he's a guy who invaded Avengers Mansion and easily beat up Captain America... BUT WAIT! Turns out, it wasn't Cap AT ALL, but a Super-Adaptoid copying his form but having none of this fighting skills! So Cap freed himself from captivity and beat up The Tumbler himself! He was brought out of the mothballs for the big Secret Empire story, being hired to set up Cap- he confronted Cap, but tried to flee and was shot down. Cap himself was blamed for The Tumbler's death.

-Three more Tumblers have appeared- one was a member of The Spider-Squad (a gang of three movie stuntmen who gained temporary physical enhancements), and a third was Michael, John's brother, who wore the costume and teamed up with Captain America to prove... insurance fraud, because the company refused to pay out the original's Life Insurance Policy. Uh, okay... Tumbler IV is an unnamed criminal who bought the original's gear from Roderick Kingsley (aka The Hobgoblin), then teamed up with unnamed versions of other Jobber Villains (was the world really clamoring for Ringer III & Steeplejack III?) as part of Kingsley's goon squad. They got beaten up by The Goblin King's servants Menace & Monster.

-The Tumbler is just a costumed acrobat with reasonable fighting skills, but as a guy who never really meant anything and only appeared in the lower-level Silver Age, he's really nothing.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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