I never thought Baron Strucker had any credibility, either. I mean, the dude's lost to Fury, what? 90,000 times? And how many times has it been revealed that he's just the Red Skull's pawn in the end?Ares wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:44 am Viper would probably work better as a "Baroness" type character, being an elite "dragon" to Hydra leader Baron Strucker, basically allowing Hydra to appear in a book and lose without damaging Strucker's cred too much. Keep Strucker as a dangerous opponent who you thwart but never capture, but Viper can be beaten and even occasionally captured without overall damaging Hydra's cred.
Her link to the Serpent Society never really fit, because the Serpent Society worked best as elite mercenary villains who treated crime like a professional corporate job with meetings, benefits, etc. Viper is just too much of a "evil for evil's sake" character to fit in with that kind of group.
Jab’s Builds! (Nightmare Creatures/Circus! Lawnmower Man! Metroid!)
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
They were drawn many years apart, and the guy painting the covers was probably doing what he thought looked cool. Someone asked a comic author how changing a character's look went, and he responded "If you wanted to change Katana's outfit, you could go right ahead without permission? Superman? You'd need to get Editorial approval". Mister X is a low-tier Wolverine villain, so somebody probably just went "let's make him look cooler" and that was the end of it.Batgirl III wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:39 pm That’s not just a little change though, that’s a wholly different design. An artist getting the scale pattern wrong on Roulette’s dragon or not quite getting Iron Fist’s Mark of Kunlun the right size... Meh, simple mistake. This is just nuts.
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Fighter's History
Jesus Christ, it's THAT BAD. The friggin' FONTS are the same!
FIGHTER'S HISTORY:
-As I've said many times before, the game Street Fighter II changed EVERYTHING. Defining the "Competitive Fighting Game" for all time, the game created a HUGE fad of "Me Too" game designers, each trying to be the first one to cash in on this new money-maker in various ways. Some more or less copied the series wholesale, while others added bits- Art of Fighting is borderline litigiously the same, but changed stuff like adding Super Meters and adding a Story Mode. Mortal Kombat hit huge by using ultra-violence and digitized graphics to make it look more "real" and violent (and itself spawned a legion of garbage imitators). Some used licenses from other things- we saw the Ninja Turtles, Jimmy & Billy Lee, the Justice League, and others all join the herd desperate for more of that sweet, sweet Fighting Game money...
And then... there was FIGHTER'S HISTORY. Considered to be the most blatant copycat of this era, FH was as cynical an attempt at "cashing in" as all those obvious Ninja Turtles clones you saw 1980s indie comics. Released in 1993 in arcades, and getting a Super Nintendo port the next year, FH did a cookie-cutter job on SEVERAL characters, effectively cloning Ryu in particular down to his moveset, adding a Chinese girl as a "Chun-Li Clone", a Zangief clone, and even a SAGAT clone. Among the only differences was a "Weak Point System", where repeated attacks to a weak point could stun the enemy once per round.
While "Copycatting" is nothing new to video gaming (have you SEEN how many "Animals With Attitude" followed in the wake of Sonic?), very few of these managed to get SUED over it. And this is indeed what happened when Capcom saw this game. It was actually Capcom USA (not Japan) that did so, suing Data East (the makers of Fighter's History) for copywrite infringement. Data East did manage to get out of this one, claiming that they invented the genre with Karate Champ in 1984 (technically true, though it obviously bears little resemblance to later Fighting Games), and that Fighting Game tropes had since become scenes a faire (ie. "fair for anyone to copy and use"), since it was basically a template, like The Hero's Journey is for storytelling.
Though Capcom failed in their case, they were definitely successful in the "Court of Public Opinion"- this game's status as a "Street Fighter Clone" have far outlived any mention of the game's merits, to the point where the LAWSUIT gets brought up before any particulars of the game itself.
Despite being a rip-off, however, the game was able to draw enough money to earn sequels- Fighter's History Dynamite for the Neo*Geo in 1994, and Fighter's History: Mizoguchi's Moment of Crisis for the Super Famicom (SNES) in 1995 (Japan only). There was even a pair of cellphone-only games released in Japan, called Fatal Fury (vs) Fighter's History. And, to be fair, Data East are good enough game designers (only going out of business in 2003) that these are apparently legitimately quite-good games.
The Story:
-"The Great Grapple" is an international martial arts tournament, drawing fighters from around the world. The event is organized by someone known only as "K", who reveals himself to be KARNOV, a character from some Data East classic games of the 1980s! The first game features nine characters and two bosses. The sequel brings back everyone from the first game, and adds two new fighters and one boss.
Characters:
Mizoguchi- Off-Brand Ryu, but a loudmouth from Osaka.
Ray McDougal- American Detective, just out to have Cool Fights.
Matlock Jade- Punker (I hate punkers). Off-Brand Duck King.
Samchay- Off-Brand Sagat.
Marstorius- Off-Brand Zangief.
Jean- Off-Brand Vega (Sissy Frenchman).
Ryoko- Female Judo Master.
Clown- Homosexual clown.
Karnov- The Karnov from Data East's 1980s video game. The Final Boss who's bankrolling the entire tournament.
Fighter's History Dynamite:
* All the previous characters return.
Zazie- Off-Brand Dee Jay.
Yungmie- Female TKD Fighter.
Ox- ... a literal, actual ox.
Fighter's History: Mizoguchi's Moment of Crisis:
* This game includes nine characters, dropping Ray, Jean, Matlock, Samchay, and Marstorius.
Chelnov- Final Boss
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
So yeah, I'ma go see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BcYBFC6zfY
LOL at Cinderella's stabby-shoe. And Pocahontas having flowing hair INDOORS.
LOL at Cinderella's stabby-shoe. And Pocahontas having flowing hair INDOORS.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
Once again, Princess Eilonwy doesn't get invited into the Disney Princess clique. Mulan, Belle, Pocahontas, and Moana all get into the club despite not a one of them being an actual princess... and most of the rest of them are merely princesses by dint of marriage and not royal blood. Blatant Anti-Prydainism!Jabroniville wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:36 am So yeah, I'ma go see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BcYBFC6zfY
LOL at Cinderella's stabby-shoe. And Pocahontas having flowing hair INDOORS.
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
There's a general sense that they all have to be around the same age- Merida & Snow White are the youngest by far. They don't include Sofia the First either, and she's 20 times the moneymaker Eilonwy is. Though fun fact: Tinker Bell was initially in the line, before they really finalized it.Batgirl III wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:15 amOnce again, Princess Eilonwy doesn't get invited into the Disney Princess clique. Mulan, Belle, Pocahontas, and Moana all get into the club despite not a one of them being an actual princess... and most of the rest of them are merely princesses by dint of marriage and not royal blood. Blatant Anti-Prydainism!Jabroniville wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:36 am So yeah, I'ma go see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BcYBFC6zfY
LOL at Cinderella's stabby-shoe. And Pocahontas having flowing hair INDOORS.
And of course they're pretty general with the term "Princess", in order to fit more diverse girls into the mix. "Chief's Daughter" apparently counts, as is Belle for marrying whatever kind of Prince her husband is (or was).
It was funny watching the "Royal Wedding" proceedings, and having the Brits insist that the Americans stop calling Kate & Meghan "Princesses", since that has to be officially bestowed by a monarch, and both women were still DUCHESSES.
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Ray McDougal
RAY McDOUGAL
First Appearance: Fighter's History (1993)
Home Country: United States
Role: The Main Character
Vague Martial Art Basis: Karate
PL 8 (106)
STRENGTH 3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2
Skills:
Acrobatics 7 (+11)
Athletics 9 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 6 (+13)
Expertise (Detective) 6 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Investigation 4 (+6)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Big Tornado) 8 (+10)
Advantages:
Fearless, Improved Critical (Big Tornado), Improved Critical (Thunder Dynamite Tackle), Improved Critical (Wheel Kick), Ranged Attack 2
Off-Brand "World Warrior" Fighting Style: Accurate Attack (Light Attack), All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Fast Grab (Grab), Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Improved Hold, Improved Trip (Throw), Withstand Damage (Block)
Powers:
"Special Moves"
"Big Tornado" Blast 4 (Flaws: Reduced Defenses 2) (Diminished Range -1) (3) -- [5]
- AE: "Thunder Dynamite Tackle" Strength-Damage +2 (Inaccurate -1) Linked to Speed 1 (4 mph) (2)
- AE: "Wheel Kick" Strength-Damage +2 (Inaccurate -1) (1)
Unarmed +13 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Special Moves +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Fireball +10 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +4
Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +5, Will +5
Complications:
Motivation (Action)- Ray never stands still, and is constantly looking out for the next case or fight.
Weakness (Lightning Bolt)- Two successful called-shots to the lightning bolt chest-logo on his shirt will instantly leave Ray Stunned & Defenseless for one round.
Weakness (Predictability)- Ray cannot simply "spam" out the same attack over and over again, as the opponent will expect the attacks, and be ready for them (and a counterattack). The third time he tries the same technique (or same combo of techniques) in a short span, he will be at -2 to Accuracy, AND to his Active Defenses in that round. All will decrease by 2 every successive round the same move is done.
Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 6 + 9 / Powers: 5 / Defenses: 18 (106)
-Ray McDougal is apparently the main character of the first two Fighter's History games, and is a Los Angeles detective using a unique fighting style. His hair is Super Saiyan-esque, and unlike the other characters, appears to be not based off of a Street Fighter guy. Unfortunately... he just looks like an SNK guy, right down to the "wearing regular clothes" aspect. The whole "blonde guy with white clothes" thing makes him very "Andy Bogard". In both of his game endings, he refuses to accept Karnov's riches- he's only concerned with having a good fight, and determining which of the two was stronger. This reveals him as a "Goku" sort- a guy who just wants to have cool fights, at the expense of everything else.
-Ray is PL 8 like Mizoguchi, owing to being the ideal "Main Character" of the series. He's got some half-decent Detective skills, but isn't even actually INVESTIGATING anything, unlike your Chun-Lis or Lee from Tekkens. He's just there to scrap.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
His weak-spot is the center of his torso!?
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
I have no interest in Ballz. In so many ways. I don't know 4, 5, and 7 by name at the moment. I am really torn about 1-3. I'll say any or all of those three would get my vote.Jabroniville wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:42 am I've got such bad Build ADD right now, though! I keep statting up random guys from random games! so here's another survey to test which ones people wanna see next:
1) Mortal Kombat
2) Samurai Shodown
3) Killer Instinct
4) Way of the Warrior
5) Brutal: Paws of Fury
6) Ballz
7) Kasumi Ninja
Yes, really.
Shadow Ops - cinematic espionage action RPG - Kickstarter live now!
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
Hmm...Really, I'd like to see all of these games statted, but I'll put my vote down for Samurai Shodown (Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat are #2 and #3 on my wants, so they'd get my vote too), since it's one of SNK's bigger unstatted games. Ballz would be amusing, but I've never seen anyone actually give a full list of the boss, The Jester's moves.Jabroniville wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:42 am And that does it for the Wolverine builds! Glad they drew some attention and did away with so much of my backlog
Next up: Fighter's History, followed by Godzilla/Toho!
After that, I might do the Black Order finally. Plus re-do the Starjammers.
I've got such bad Build ADD right now, though! I keep statting up random guys from random games! so here's another survey to test which ones people wanna see next:
1) Mortal Kombat
2) Samurai Shodown
3) Killer Instinct
4) Way of the Warrior
5) Brutal: Paws of Fury
6) Ballz
7) Kasumi Ninja
Yes, really.
As for Fighter's History..It always amazes me how blatant of a ripoff it was. But having played Fighter's History Dynamite, it's..not half-bad. But yeah, the character designs could use some work. It's also funny how Ryoko is based on the same person as World Heroes Ryoko is, so they end up very similar.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
As I've said before, literally the only thing keeping Shodown from not being done so far is that the roster is HUGE- and not in that Toshinden way where it's two games worth of decent characters and then a mass of garbage you can just casually mention. I mean in the way they actually create new "Main Characters" for each game, bring out an all-new Boss each time, and more. I finally added it all up, and that whole set would take two entire weeks if I posted 4 per day (easier since some are "Sprite Clones" who mimic fighting styles).KorokoMystia wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 pm Hmm...Really, I'd like to see all of these games statted, but I'll put my vote down for Samurai Shodown (Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat are #2 and #3 on my wants, so they'd get my vote too), since it's one of SNK's bigger unstatted games. Ballz would be amusing, but I've never seen anyone actually give a full list of the boss, The Jester's moves.
Most of the reviews mention that since they ripped off Street Fighter II SO CLOSELY (right down to the way impacts and special moves worked), they actually ended up with a semi-comparable game. I mean, Data East were no spring chickens to gaming, either. So it all added up together to make something that's pretty good if you can avoid the obvious copycatting.As for Fighter's History..It always amazes me how blatant of a ripoff it was. But having played Fighter's History Dynamite, it's..not half-bad. But yeah, the character designs could use some work. It's also funny how Ryoko is based on the same person as World Heroes Ryoko is, so they end up very similar.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Daken! X-23! Viper! Mister X! Fighter's History!)
Nobody but nobody has copycat’d Street Fighter II more than Capcom themselves. Nobody.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken! X-23!)
Yeah, I figured that it'd be a huge set, so can understand if you don't want to do it right away. I'd also be okay with some of them being spammed out or Templated if necessary. Also, some of the smaller fighting game sets could probably be easily Templated and grouped together into a single set. Also, if Fighter's History wasn't a bad enough ripoff..There's Super Fighter, for DOS, which goes as far as to rip off actual Street Fighter sound effects, and is a much worse game compared to Fighter's History. (Also, some guys actually bothered to remake Super Fighter for MUGEN, of all things, making the bosses playable, adding an in-game move list, and giving everyone Super Moves.)Jabroniville wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:49 pmAs I've said before, literally the only thing keeping Shodown from not being done so far is that the roster is HUGE- and not in that Toshinden way where it's two games worth of decent characters and then a mass of garbage you can just casually mention. I mean in the way they actually create new "Main Characters" for each game, bring out an all-new Boss each time, and more. I finally added it all up, and that whole set would take two entire weeks if I posted 4 per day (easier since some are "Sprite Clones" who mimic fighting styles).KorokoMystia wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 pm Hmm...Really, I'd like to see all of these games statted, but I'll put my vote down for Samurai Shodown (Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat are #2 and #3 on my wants, so they'd get my vote too), since it's one of SNK's bigger unstatted games. Ballz would be amusing, but I've never seen anyone actually give a full list of the boss, The Jester's moves.
Most of the reviews mention that since they ripped off Street Fighter II SO CLOSELY (right down to the way impacts and special moves worked), they actually ended up with a semi-comparable game. I mean, Data East were no spring chickens to gaming, either. So it all added up together to make something that's pretty good if you can avoid the obvious copycatting.As for Fighter's History..It always amazes me how blatant of a ripoff it was. But having played Fighter's History Dynamite, it's..not half-bad. But yeah, the character designs could use some work. It's also funny how Ryoko is based on the same person as World Heroes Ryoko is, so they end up very similar.
Re: Viper
I sort of remember Iceman saying the same thing (You know before he was gay)
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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Mizoguchi
MAKOTO MIZOGUCHI
First Appearance: Fighter's History (1993)
Home Country: Japan
Role: The Ryu (All-Around Guy), Off-Brand Ryu, HomesickWarrior
Vague Martial Art Basis: Karate
PL 8 (97)
STRENGTH 3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 1
Skills:
Acrobatics 7 (+11)
Athletics 9 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 6 (+13)
Expertise (Travelling Martial Artist) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 4 (+5)
Perception 4 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Fireball) 8 (+10)
Advantages:
Fearless, Improved Critical (Tiger Bazooka- Fireball), Improved Critical (Dragon Punch), Improved Critical (Hurricane Kick), Ranged Attack 2
Off-Brand "World Warrior" Fighting Style: Accurate Attack (Light Attack), All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Fast Grab (Grab), Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Improved Hold, Improved Trip (Throw), Withstand Damage (Block)
Powers:
"Special Moves"
"Off-Brand Hurricane Kick" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Multiattack 3) (Flaws: Distracting) Linked to Affliction 3 (Toughness; Dazed & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless) (Extras: Extra Condition) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (5) -- [7]
- AE: "Off-Brand Fireball" Blast 4 (Flaws: Reduced Defenses 2) (Diminished Range -1) (3)
- AE: "Off-Brand Dragon Punch" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Jumping Opponents) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
Unarmed +13 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Special Moves +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Fireball +10 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +4
Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +5, Will +5
Complications:
Motivation (Leaving His Gang)- Mizoguchi was scouted by a Chinese gang, but is now homesick and is constantly attempting to leave. This always meets with failure.
Weakness (Headband)- Two successful called-shots to the headband will instantly leave Mizoguchi Stunned & Defenseless for one round.
Weakness (Predictability)- Mizoguchi cannot simply "spam" out the same attack over and over again, as the opponent will expect the attacks, and be ready for them (and a counterattack). The third time he tries the same technique (or same combo of techniques) in a short span, he will be at -2 to Accuracy, AND to his Active Defenses in that round. All will decrease by 2 every successive round the same move is done.
Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 42--21 / Advantages: 6 + 9 / Powers: 7 / Defenses: 18 (97)
-Mizoguchi was not INTENDED to become the main character of the series, but being "The Ryu", and among the more obvious Ryu knock-offs in history (he even wears white- okay, light grey with white lighting- though at least skips the top part of his gi), it was inevitable. Christ, he even uses a HURRICANE KICK! The ONE MOVE Art of Fighting didn't copy for Ryo! Rather that Ryu's "Stoic Japanese Dude" act, Mizoguchi is your stereotypical "Hot-Blooded Idiot From Osaka" (a city that Tokyo denizens parody as being fully of drunks and hillbillies; humorously, I found it very similar to my own Edmonton- full of jeans-wearing "regular joes" who walked at a normal pace, compared to the insanely-speedy Tokyoites). In short, it's the "Big City" making fun of the more "Working Class" folk, though in a more good-natured "aren't they funny?" kind of way that allows them to be seen as heroes.
-The character is considered to be quite similar to the bad-ass Momotaro from Sakigake Otokojuku, a parody "Fighting Manga" from the late '80s, and was popular enough to show up in a few other games (as well as his name being included in the title of the third FH game). When SNK bought out Data East's library up on their bankruptcy, they even included him in King of Fighters Maximum Impact: Regulation A.
-His moves are all named after Tigers, but the Tiger Bazooka is just Ryu's Fireball, but crappier. In effect, the entire character is just an Off-Brand Ryu, though he fits PL 8, owing to appearances in not just three Fighter's History games, but a King of Fighters game as well!