Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 2:34 pm This seems like the same kind of cop out John Byrne used regarding Alpha Flight. "They're just a bunch of boring, blank slate characters I created for a single fight scene. How am I suppose to write them?"

"Uh, well John, since they're blank slates, can't you give them whatever personalities you want, and make them as interesting as you want? Doesn't that really say more about your skills as a writer than anything?"

In that same vein, the "we have no idea how they're suppose to interact because they haven't actually spent much time alone" bit sounds like a gold mine to be explored. They're two highschool age kids who just found out they've got this crazy destiny, are each other's soul mates, and feel a strong connection to each other . . . yet they don't really know each other all that well. Have them go on dates, be awkward, wonder if just because their past lives included falling in love that it means they're "destined" to fall in love. Wonder why they feel so strongly towards each other when, on the surface, they don't seem to have much in common. Then you can really get into the character's personality, motivations, make it clear Mamoru likes Usagi for her better qualities beneath the crybaby exterior, while she likes the kind and supportive nature beneath the "too cool for school" attitude. They basically encourage each other to be better people.

But it sounds like the show runners basically wanted to make this the Uranus and Neptune show.
Part of the issue is that one of the head directors has confessed to not wanting to write about male characters very much. He went on to create a show pretty much ENTIRELY about girls.

Another issue was that they probably didn't want to just invent their own personality for the guy- Takeuchi gave them HELL over the change to Sailor Mars, where she went from "Aloof Mysterious Girl" to "Cranky Yell-Machine".

"Relationships Are Hard To Write", some have said. Takeuchi herself wrote them as splitting up so much that the writers had trouble establishing even the regular baseline for the couple. They DID manage to make Mamo a lot more human in the anime (where instead of the "Mystery Man" he's more of a regular college guy, and can engage in pratfalls and such), at least... but it's clear the writers didn't know where to go. Hell, the couple getting back together at the end of Sailor Moon R is really just a backdrop to everything else, and changes almost nothing about the course of the show to that point!

Like I said, it seems like they just kind of gave up and didn't care ANYWAY. Which is pretty unacceptable (The "R" in Sailor Moon R LITERALLY MEANS ROMANCE!!!), but given the production rates of the anime, I'm surprised that's the only thing that really crapped out.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by Batgirl III »

The entire “Doom Tree” arc from Sailor Moon’s first season happened because the manga was ongoing, the first arc had wrapped, and no one expected the anime to have been as big a hit as it was. Do it had to be extended with an entire “filler season” unexpectedly.

The manga debuted in December, 1991; the anime debuted in March, ‘92... Four months lead time seemed fine for what was supposed to be a 46-episode-and-done series. Hard to remember in our Post-DBZ/Naruto/Bleach world, but anime (and Japanese television as a whole) prior to this point was virtually never a multiple season affair. Even if an series was super successful any follow-up was usually a new series (albeit in a similar theme) and usually a year or two or three later. Compare the Super Sentai and Kamen Rider franchises or even British TV.

Sailor Moon first aired in Japan from March, 1992 to February, 1997. That’s basically an alien planet compared to today’s anime marketplace. (To put that timeframe in perspective, the first run of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air was September, 1990 to May, 1996. Yeah.)
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

I patiently await Kaiju.
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drkrash
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by drkrash »

HalloweenJack wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:24 pm I patiently await Kaiju.
(Me too.)
Shadow Ops - cinematic espionage action RPG - Kickstarter live now!
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by BriarThrone »

Oddly, I wish there had been much more use of filler in the anime, to prevent the problem of running past the manga and writing something you have to contradict later, and to create opportunity for more character focus episodes than the one-per-season-and-sometimes-Venus-and-Jupiter-combine-theirs-for-space situation we had. It was an opportunity for a very positive element for the series. The opportunity was... missed. :?
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

drkrash wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:30 pm
HalloweenJack wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:24 pm I patiently await Kaiju.
(Me too.)
(you're good people.)
Jabroniville
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Uranus & Neptune

Post by Jabroniville »

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SAILOR URANUS & SAILOR NEPTUNE:
-So one of the most commonly-cited things about Sailor Moon S is the fact that we get two NEW recurring Sailors in the show- Uranus & Neptune! That we got almost 100 episodes in before Naoko started filling in the rest of the solar system is pretty bizarre, but man, did she ever knock it out of the park with these girls. And what's possibly MORE impressive is that even though they hit a crap-ton of "Mary Sue" tropes dead-center, they've gone on to become some of the most beloved and talked-about characters in the entire fandom! Never mind the fact that they're EASILY the most famous lesbian couple in anime history.

-Uranus & Neptune are given a HUGE push in the show- they are stated as being more powerful than the regular Sailors. Michiru is so beautiful and feminine that the girls are envious of her. Haruka is so tough, cool and capable that the girls are infatuated and obsessed. Boys flat-out state they're better-looking than the regular cast. They get cooler, newer attacks & transformation sequences. They spend their time lecturing the other Sailors and deriding their capabilities. The stage is set for them to be these horrible Mary Sues...

-But the show ALWAYS scales back from sending them over the edge. Primarily because their smug attitude and self-righteousness is treated as annoying IN-UNIVERSE, and also pointed out to be WRONG. The girls like their CIVILIAN identities, but they find Uranus & Neptune to be unhelpful, distant and needlessly cruel. Hell, in one of the very first episodes, they pretty much show up, play the "Tuxedo Mask" role in saving the girls... and then bail the second they find out there's no Talisman, leaving the other Sailors to face a dangerous foe by themselves! They're flat-out like "Don't get the wrong idea. We're only here for the Talismans". It's GREATS stuff, and keeps them from being these flawless wonders that overwhelm the show, even though they totally hot the spotlight for the first half.

Neptune & Uranus Debut:
-The girls debut, like I said, as "Tuxedo Mask" types, hitting their attacks from far away, making flowery statements, and then watching Sailor Moon finish off the Daimon (they handle only a few villains themselves). They are after the same Talismans the villains are, and check out the Heart Crystals (they cannot take them out; only capitalize on what the villains do), tossing them back if they're not what they're looking for. And often with a very cavalier, harsh attitude- Uranus in particular's usually like "ah, damn" about it. Even though it's stated that taking a Talisman out will KILL the person carrying it!

-This sets these two new, older Sailors up as rivals to the "Inner Senshi" (the Fan Nickname for Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus & Mercury). They're out to do something that will absolutely lead to the deaths of innocent people, and the Inners are upset over it- in an early episode, it turns into an actual physical fight. This marks the newbies as much harsher, much more ambiguous adversaries, even though they say they're out to prevent "The Silence", an apocalyptic assault on our world.

-Meanwhile, the Sailors' personal lives are shaken up by the mysterious arrival of these two new beauties- the feminine, perfect Michiru, and her tall, tough, cool "close friend", Haruka. The girls are aloof, but very friendly, to the girls, tolerating their presence, with Haruka (who dresses like a boy) openly flirting with them! Yet the two girls appear to be a couple, in ways that become more and more obvious with time.

-And so, pretty much every episode of the first half of Sailor Moon S deals with the girls doing something, then casually running into Haruka & Michiru, who appear with a flourish of "soft-cell lighting", and a chorus of "Ooooooooo-ohhhhhhhhhh... LAAAAAAAA-LAAAAAAAAA...". We're REALLY supposed to think these people are cool, to the point where Jupiter is obsessed with Haruka's toughness, and Usagi idolizes Michiru's flawless grace. 

Stuff Accelerates:
-There's a lot of neat stuff here. We learn that Neptune & Uranus met because Michiru had a crush on Haruka (it's stated more ambiguously, but is still rather obvious), but soon discovered that Haruka was destined to be a Sailor like she herself was- Haruka refuses the call to action, and is chided for her selfishness by Neptune (who would LOVE to live a normal life). Ultimately, she breaks down when Neptune is attacked, and becomes Sailor Uranus. And the two make a great team, but also share a pact: to stop The Silence no matter what, even if it means sacrificing each other, or leaving the other one to die. They MUST stop it.

-And so, of course, things accelerate, but the girls are given very different personalities. Uranus is more casual and unforgiving than Neptune is, to the point where she chides Neptune for being happy when people she likes turn out NOT to be carrying Talismans- of course it's better if they survive, but they're on a MISSION here, and every time the Talisman doesn't appear, it means they're further from victory. Uranus & Sailor Moon are actually chained together at one point, and Uranus is prepared to leave Neptune to die- Usagi is mortified at Uranus's cruelty, but Uranus sees it as practical, though her obvious heartbreak is apparent.

-Things get even better when they have a final battle with Kaolinite- Usagi is almost certainly going to be killed, which leaves Neptune hestitant. "Are you sure you're okay with this, Haruka? She's... going to die...". Haruka answers "It can't be helped. In order to get the Holy Grail in order to save the world from The Silence... Bun-Head needs to be sacrificed!", but you see her just DIGGING her hands into the windshield as she says it. She KNOWS this is the best way in her heart... but it hurts. It seriously affects them both to be this way, which gives them layers to this seemingly-cavalier attitude about life.

-And OF COURSE it turns out that the very Talismans they're looking for belong to Haruka & Michiru themselves. But, in a GREAT bit, they actually REFUSE to abide by their pact, and repeatedly try to save each other from Eudial, who removes Neptune's Heart Crystal. Uranus removes her own in a suicidal attack, choosing to let Sailor Moon carry on without them... but they're all saved by the arrival of Sailor Pluto.

The New Status Quo:
-With the "Talisman" situation over (and humorously tossed aside, since not only were the "Big Mystery Talisman Holders" the people we'd already met, but removing the Talismans WASN'T FATAL AT ALL, so that moral debate was pointless. But now there's ANOTHER moral debate going on- the innocent little Hotaru Tomoe is actually The Messiah of Silence, and is fated to destroy the world. Uranus, Neptune & Pluto (their new partner) all decide that Hotaru must die, but the Inner Senshi (and Chibi-Usa, who's now befriended Hotaru) refuse. And this gets MUCH uglier, with the elder Sailors attempting to recruit Tuxedo Mask and try to get the others to avoid Hotaru entirely. And their cruel insistence also helps them from seeming "Too Perfect"- in the world of SAILOR MOON, this kind of cynical practicality just has no place, and makes them seem extra-mean.

-Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd of course the girls barely factor into the end of the season at all. Uranus & Neptune (and their inexplicable helicopter) are attacked and beaten by Mistress 9, but not before Sailor Moon blocks their attacks with her own body, saving Hotaru one final time. This seeminly dooms the world, but then the elder Sailors watch as Sailor Moon reveals herself to be the one, true Messiah (even though they were the ones telling the others... and the audience as "Word of God"... that Usagi COULDN'T have been the Messiah at all), and saves the universe along with the girl they were trying to kill (Hotaru is, of course, Sailor Saturn, and breaks free of Mistress 9's control and kills Pharaoh 90). And the girls have to be bitchy ONE LAST TIME, demanding that Sailor Moon engage them in a physical battle in order to "prove" she's worthy to be the Neo-Queen Serenity of the future, since they're still pissy that she risked the entire universe by saving Hotaru's life. But they just kind of smile, bow to her, and accept her rule in the end.

The End Result:
-The two characters are ALL OVER the first half of Sailor Moon S, as I think the directors just fell in love with them and their relationship SO MUCH. And while it can be annoying (especially as a fan of the Inner Senshi), they really ARE great characters, and really give the series a shot in the arm. It could have been SO disastrous to have them be super-capable, super-righteous, and super-correct. Or to just introduce two newbies into an already-ironclad friendship like the girls had developed over 90-odd episodes prior to this point. So it's a very great decision by the writers to make them skilled, but intensely flawed. Their cruelty, casual attitude towards human life, and their cynical outlook, paints them as adversarial characters, and keeps them "apart" from the other girls. It also helps that the second half of the show takes a step back, and doesn't focus on them. Never mind the fact that they're proven wrong in the end, and are utterly useless in the final battle, being easily defeated and then watching as Sailors Moon & Saturn defeat the villains they were so afraid of, proving that goodness, life and friendship are more important that all that "practicality" nonsense.

-At the end of the season, Uranus & Neptune sort of say their goodbyes after one last attempt at bitchiness, and go on their merry way. Still being High School students, though we never SEE ANYONE IN CLASS, they disappear from the series at this point, skipping out entirely on Sailor Moon SuperS, the subsequent season (which is generally considered the weakest by most). They reappear for the final season, Sailor Stars, where their ruthlessness gets shown AGAIN, as they attempt to play "Double Agent", slaughtering their closest allies (Sailors Pluto & Saturn) to "join" Sailor Galaxia, but fail and are killed anyways. Only Sailor Moon's goodness, ONCE AGAIN, can save the day.

The Lesbian Thing:
-Easily the most famous aspect of the two characters, of course, is the unambiguous fact that they are IN LOVE. A fairly common trope in Shoujo Manga, "Girls Love" becomes an important factor in their relationship, as they spend all their time with each other, playfully teasing when Haruka flirts with other girls, but being SUPER-romantic and introspective when they're alone (there's a fantastic shot of them talking about how close they are, while their fingers are seen repeatedly intertwining). They stand as the most famous gay couple in anime history, particularly since it's in one of the "Big Animes" that fully introduced Japan's animation industry to the world in the 1990s. Sailor Moon was in the same breath as Dragon Ball Z, which, while more popular, didn't have lesbians as MAJOR CHARACTERS.

-This of course caused issues with translations, particularly in America, which tried to pass them off as "Cousins", Amara and Michelle. Despite that, the translators couldn't just ignore all the later stuff, so in episodes where they prove to be the ideal couple in a "Couples Contest", talk about how much they need and care for each other, etc... they just come off as lesbian COUSINS, engaged in a relationship despite now sharing blood relations! That kind of clumsy dubbing is part of why the Original Dub gets so much hate.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat May 04, 2019 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by Jabroniville »

BriarThrone wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:35 pm Oddly, I wish there had been much more use of filler in the anime, to prevent the problem of running past the manga and writing something you have to contradict later, and to create opportunity for more character focus episodes than the one-per-season-and-sometimes-Venus-and-Jupiter-combine-theirs-for-space situation we had. It was an opportunity for a very positive element for the series. The opportunity was... missed. :?
Another mini-arc would have been GREAT. The freedom allows the writers to have more fun, and possibly explore backstory that the manga leaves out. It still drives me crazy that Urawa/Greg and xxxxxx/Ken never reappeared. Sailor Moon has one of the best casts in friggin' history, and they're practically a backdrop.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by Batgirl III »

One thing I appreciated about their lesbian relationship (and the earlier gay Zoisite/Malachite relationship) was that it wasn’t treated as anything unique or different than the heterosexual relationships on the show.

Yes, it was all flowery speeches, longing looks, soft-focus cameras, and oooo-oooo-wooo music, but so were the straight couples!
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MacynSnow
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by MacynSnow »

HalloweenJack wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 11:06 pm
drkrash wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:30 pm
HalloweenJack wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:24 pm I patiently await Kaiju.
(Me too.)
(you're good people.)
(we need to make sure this ends quickly,before we lose jab&Catsei again.....)
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by Jabroniville »

HalloweenJack wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:24 pm I patiently await Kaiju.
LET ME TASTE YOUR TEARS, JACK!! *licks tear off of Jack's face* "mmmm- the tears of unfathomable sadness- YUMMY!!
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

I was also thinking about some kaiju that could be added to the Godzilla builds..There are a few I can think of. Legendary Pictures Kong and Godzilla, the MUTOs..there's also (the original) Moguera and Gezora, who are from non-Godzilla movies but have appeared in Godzilla media like games and stock footage in FInal Wars, and Obsidius and Krystalak (two original kaiju created for the Godzilla Unleashed Wii fighting game.) And also the unused kaiju Bagan. ( who apparead only once, in a Godzilla SNES game, Super Godzilla as the final boss. He's probably PL 17 like the other super-elite kaiju.). There's also the Ultraman ripoff Zone Fighter, since Godzilla appeared in his show, but that might be going too far.
Last edited by KorokoMystia on Tue May 15, 2018 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
MacynSnow
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by MacynSnow »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 12:55 am
HalloweenJack wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:24 pm I patiently await Kaiju.
LET ME TASTE YOUR TEARS, JACK!! *licks tear off of Jack's face* "mmmm- the tears of unfathomable sadness- YUMMY!!
*bodily tackles Jab back into de-programing room*
Dangit kenny,you forgot to use the anit-senshi chains again!Jack Anesthetic again....
*halloweenjack hits him again with a chair as MacynSnow pulls a struggling jab back into the room....*
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by Ken »

What makes you think I'm doing anything but sitting back and watching?
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sailors Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury & Moon!)

Post by Batgirl III »

*Sneaks back into MacynSnow’s icy lair to free Jab, once again, from the holding cell.*

“Okay, Usagi-chan, Jab’s free to continue summoning the rest of the Senshi. I’m heading back to Gotham, but first: selfie!”

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