Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[Batgirl III]

Once again, I find his SW6 costume to be the best of the lot.

[Jabroniville]

It is kind of weird that Sun Boy couldn't fly on his own, though I'm sure these days him and Phantom Girl would have learned that rick without their flight rings. Cosmic Boy actually managed to learn how to fly on his own in the 80s, so it's likely others would have managed it as well.

It's actually interesting with how "pull new powers out of his butt" Pre-Crisis Superman could be at times, yet the Legion usually stuck to the most basic use of their abilities until the mid-to-late 70s (with the exception of Chameleon "I can become a phantom" Boy). Lightning Lad could JUST shoot lightning, Cosmic Boy had VERY basic magnetic powers, etc. The Flash is vibrating through dimensions and the Legion were spectacularly lacking in versatility and creativity.

Though again, perhaps that's the nature of the beast. A lot of writers probably figure that if each individual member is versatile, then having 20+ members might make stories too hard to write. Though I'd tend to say that those guys just aren't trying hard enough.

The weird thing is they had 2-3 Supermen on the team, but most of the other guys were very limited. Though I think that's really the nature of a book like that- most Team Book characters are far less capable than "Solo Book" heroes- less breadth of skills, less Power Feats, etc. JLA/Avengers teams could be based on multiple "Solo Book" heroes, but otherwise, you kind of have to limit them.

Now, if the book was 6-8 characters, like most team books, then yeah- Sun Boy and others would have NUMEROUS Power Feats, all sorts of stunts, and more, but with a roster of 20+, they barely had time to give them different CHARACTERS, much less more versatile abilities.

I do note, however, that Marvel books tended to feature more Team Guys that were very versatile. Multiple X-Men ended up with numerous Power Feats and all sorts of stuff (Storm, Gambit, Iceman, etc.). The Fantastic Four, being such a small roster, had room to give Johnny & Sue SCADS of different tricks (compared to the limited Reed & Ben). Even characters on the Defenders tended to be pretty varied. DC, by contrast, had some very limited, "one-trick" characters on the Teen Titans, Legion of Super-Heroes, and more. I think The Outsiders might be a different case, with Halo in particular having a lot of tricks to her.

[Batgirl III]

Halo’s schtick was that she was the versatile one on a team of very specialized heroes: Katana had a katana, Black Lightning had lightning, Looker had pretty mediocre telepathy, Metamorpho and Geo-Force (although nominally quite versatile) just stuck to shape-shifting into various solids/liquids/gases and being a flying brick.

The Batman was, well, the Batman.

I’ve not done an official count, but I more of DC Teams long-lasting teams are “solo characters put on a team” type squads compared to Marvel’s long-lasting teams who tend to be “made for specifically for the team book” squads. JSA, JLA, and Titans versus the FF, the dozens of X-Men books.

[Woodclaw]

It is kind of weird that Sun Boy couldn't fly on his own, though I'm sure these days him and Phantom Girl would have learned that rick without their flight rings. Cosmic Boy actually managed to learn how to fly on his own in the 80s, so it's likely others would have managed it as well.

It's actually interesting with how "pull new powers out of his butt" Pre-Crisis Superman could be at times, yet the Legion usually stuck to the most basic use of their abilities until the mid-to-late 70s (with the exception of Chameleon "I can become a phantom" Boy). Lightning Lad could JUST shoot lightning, Cosmic Boy had VERY basic magnetic powers, etc. The Flash is vibrating through dimensions and the Legion were spectacularly lacking in versatility and creativity.

Though again, perhaps that's the nature of the beast. A lot of writers probably figure that if each individual member is versatile, then having 20+ members might make stories too hard to write. Though I'd tend to say that those guys just aren't trying hard enough.

The weird thing is they had 2-3 Supermen on the team, but most of the other guys were very limited. Though I think that's really the nature of a book like that- most Team Book characters are far less capable than "Solo Book" heroes- less breadth of skills, less Power Feats, etc. JLA/Avengers teams could be based on multiple "Solo Book" heroes, but otherwise, you kind of have to limit them.

Now, if the book was 6-8 characters, like most team books, then yeah- Sun Boy and others would have NUMEROUS Power Feats, all sorts of stunts, and more, but with a roster of 20+, they barely had time to give them different CHARACTERS, much less more versatile abilities.

I do note, however, that Marvel books tended to feature more Team Guys that were very versatile. Multiple X-Men ended up with numerous Power Feats and all sorts of stuff (Storm, Gambit, Iceman, etc.). The Fantastic Four, being such a small roster, had room to give Johnny & Sue SCADS of different tricks (compared to the limited Reed & Ben). Even characters on the Defenders tended to be pretty varied. DC, by contrast, had some very limited, "one-trick" characters on the Teen Titans, Legion of Super-Heroes, and more. I think The Outsiders might be a different case, with Halo in particular having a lot of tricks to her.

Halo’s schtick was that she was the versatile one on a team of very specialized heroes: Katana had a katana, Black Lightning had lightning, Looker had pretty mediocre telepathy, Metamorpho and Geo-Force (although nominally quite versatile) just stuck to shape-shifting into various solids/liquids/gases and being a flying brick.

The Batman was, well, the Batman.

I’ve not done an official count, but I more of DC Teams long-lasting teams are “solo characters put on a team” type squads compared to Marvel’s long-lasting teams who tend to be “made for specifically for the team book” squads. JSA, JLA, and Titans versus the FF, the dozens of X-Men books.

My opinion is that Marvel has been consistently better at team books because so many of their character are actually built with a team in mind, whereas DC has been better at establishing legacies.

[Jabroniville]

Yeah, probably something like that.

In any case, the plan for the next while is:

1) Legion of Super-Heroes
2) Legion of Super-Villains
3) The Fatal Five
4) Legion Villains (ugh... gonna have to do builds of Mordru and the Time Trapper. No way of getting around those two)
5) Sailor Moon S (JUST ABOUT done watching my Sailor Moon S DVDs, so I can actually add Pluto, Uranus, Neptune & Saturn to my list, and give updates for the others)
6) Marvel 1993 Annual Characters (They're SO HORRIBLE, I just HAVE TO build them!)
7) Godzilla (it won the poll pretty handily for "next big set")

[Ares]

Something else about Sun Boy, at least what I can recall, is that he actually didn't start out with "fire" powers. Originally his abilities were actually more like "solar radiation", where he could generate radiant light and heat. He could light things on fire and melt things, but it was less "he shoots fire" and more "he shoots concentrated blasts of heat". Over time it visually evolved into more standard fire looking blasts, which oddly might have made him weaker somehow. For some reason, I imagine a lot of people think "heat ray" as being more impressive than "fire blast", even though fire tends to be more visually dynamic.

[Ares]

Once again, I find his SW6 costume to be the best of the lot.

I don't know, I find the "stripe up the center ending in flames" look to actually be about as generic as his "yellow trunks and sun symbol" costume, but at least the latter has the kind of retro-classic charm I associate with the Legion. As with a lot of things, some kind of hybrid of the two would probably work best.

[greycrusader]

Ugh...Mordru and Time Trapper, otherwise known as "Doesn't-Fit-the-Series-Tone/Ruined-Amethyst and Gemworld-Forever! Lad" and "Most-Confusing-Character History-Ever-Kid"; I don't envy you.

(And yes, I realize with respect to Mordru, AKA Game-Breaker, the LSH did feature characters with "mystic" origins previously-Projectra, Shadow Lass, and of course White Witch-but they were always kept pretty limited, and with some hand-waving from Brainiac 5 about their "magic" being a form of weird science/psychic powers).

I suppose "in-universe" there's a decent rationale for most of the LSHers not having loads of power stunts-if you play a specialized role on a team, with a couple dozen other members for support, there's not as much incentive or opportunity to stretch yourself. The other problem is structural for the writers-if ALL the Legionnaires used their powers to the fullest extent, lots of stories would be resolved really quickly. I mean, one of the best remembered and regarded plots was the "Great Darkness Saga", and technically there were multiple LSHers and allies who could take down Daxamites IF allowed to do so-Sun Boy could have drained their solar-based energies, Shadow Lass could cut off sunlight completely, friggin' Color Kid could have turned their star Red again for cripes' sake! It only seemed to take half a dozen issue for Brainiac 5 to figure out Element Lad should increase lead particulate in the atmosphere to neutralize their abilities-great thinking, Querl!

But yeah, meanwhile Mon-El figured prominently in nearly everything, and Chameleon Boy's power-set got expanded to overlap multiple other Legion members.

Go figure.

(Not to mention poor Val Armorr, whom Keith Giffen hated for his "stupid power" and vowed to keep killing off whenever he wrote the LSH; yeah, because it should definitely be about the writer just not liking a particular hero that determines whether the readers or next creative team get to use said character. Shaking my head...)

[Ares]

Ugh...Mordru and Time Trapper, otherwise known as "Doesn't-Fit-the-Series-Tone/Ruined-Amethyst and Gemworld-Forever! Lad" and "Most-Confusing-Character History-Ever-Kid"; I don't envy you.

(And yes, I realize with respect to Mordru, AKA Game-Breaker, the LSH did feature characters with "mystic" origins previously-Projectra, Shadow Lass, and of course White Witch-but they were always kept pretty limited, and with some hand-waving from Brainiac 5 about their "magic" being a form of weird science/psychic powers).

I never really found the presence of magic in the Legion to have any kind of tonal disconnect. I mean, yeah, it's the future and it's got a lot of sci-fi tropes, but it's also the future of the DC Universe, where had Alan Scott, the Marvel Family and John Constantine well into the 21st Century, to say nothing of the Spectre, the Wizard Shazam, Dr. Fate, the Phantom Stranger, Amethyst, etc. The Emerald Eye was specifically a magical artifact way back when, etc. To me, it makes sense that some worlds in the Legion time would be places where magic held more sway than science, and that magical practices would have continued well into the 31st Century. It was one more way that the Legion differed from conventional futuristic settings in that it wasn't just "Star Trek with costumes and superpowers", it was a full on "Kitchen Sink Superhero Setting IN THE FUTURE!".

Though having Mordru in the modern era . . . yeah, I'm kind of iffy about that.

(Not to mention poor Val Armorr, whom Keith Giffen hated for his "stupid power" and vowed to keep killing off whenever he wrote the LSH; yeah, because it should definitely be about the writer just not liking a particular hero that determines whether the readers or next creative team get to use said character. Shaking my head...)

Oh don't get me started. I feel bad for Jab and the rant I'm going to give when Val's build gets put up.

[Ken]

I’ve not done an official count, but I more of DC Teams long-lasting teams are “solo characters put on a team” type squads compared to Marvel’s long-lasting teams who tend to be “made for specifically for the team book” squads. JSA, JLA, and Titans versus the FF, the dozens of X-Men books.

DC's Solo characters put on a team Teams: Justice League, Justice Society, Birds of Prey, Forgotten Heroes, Crime Crusaders Club/Squadron of Justice II, Suicide Squad (modern), Soldiers of Victory, Freedom Fighters, and the Marvel Family.

DC's made for specifically for the team Teams : Blackhawks, Challengers of the Unknown, Doom Patrol, Green Lantern Corps, Freedom Brigade, Inferior Five, Legion of Super-Heroes, Metal Men, New Gods, Suicide Squad (classic)

DC's teams that are a hybrid of the two Teams: Teen Titans/Young Justice, the Outsiders, the All-Star Squadron, Detroit-era Justice League.

This last group allows for teams that may have Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Beast Boy, and Speedy as the not-quite solo heroes put on a team, but became more successful when they added Lilith Clay, Mal Duncan, Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Jericho et al. who were all created expressly for the team.

Captain Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr., and Mary Marvel were all carrying solo books AND were the lead feature in an anthology book (Whiz, Master, and Wow, respectively) before the Marvel Family book that put them together came into existence. The Lieutenants were created as a team (originally with Cap as the first Squadron of Justice) but they didn't appear in the Marvel Family regularly, and they weren't created for said book.

As far as I know, the Avengers and the Defenders both started as Solo characters put on a team books, but both veered into hybrid territory early. The Invaders and New Warriors were always hybrid books, and the Fantastic Four and the X-Men (and the numerous spin-offs) were almost always been made for specifically for the team characters.

[Hoid]

For me, the ‘one trick pony’ nature of the LSH, along with their enormous team membership, was part and parcel of the book’s appeal. It made it—-at least to me—-distinctive.

[Ares]

Here's my stab at a Sun Boy outfit

[catsi563]

I like that take, only thing id do differently is either make the boots red, or part of the outfit and continue the stripe down beyond that though solid work

[Ares]

I'm kind of tempted to try a whole custom Legion set of art in my old art thread, try that whole "combine the classic and the reboot outfits"thing I've been rambling on and on about.

[Batgirl III]

Can you bring up the yellow stripe past the belt, ending in the sun?